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Bootleg Greg
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Posted - 2008.06.01 17:06:00 -
[1]
Hello,
I have been in-active for a while. I am currently flying around a vagabond dps fitted. I see alot of rapiers and huninns in 0.0;the question is, is a Vagabond able to 1v1 either of them? The range dictating on either, I would assume dictate the fight to where they would win. I am just curious, I haven't tried yet. And if you have ever done this scenerio I would appreciate some info.
Thanks
Bootleg
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AstroPhobic
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Posted - 2008.06.01 17:11:00 -
[2]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 01/06/2008 17:11:53
Especially if the vagabond is gank fitted, they have a fighting chance. Get to a certain range and the huginn/rapier is almost certain to be dead. Huginns tend to be AC and HML fitted though, it would be dumb for them to get too close. Rapiers tend to have arty, so they have a better chance of sitting at range and killing a vaga, however the DPS will be pathetic and it will take a whil.e 
Edit: Unless there is some serious fail on either part of the fight, the huginn/rapier can always run off, so the vaga will only be able to stalemate at best.
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Dark Sidhe
Rage For Order
Nihil-Obstat
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Posted - 2008.06.01 18:54:00 -
[3]
Generally in a 1 v 1, the Rapier or Huginn will be at a disadvantage simply because they can't put out the DPS. There are exceptions and if they have much better drone and/or piloting skills than you, it could even things up.
Both ships are generally used in gang or fleet support. Their huge web range will slow someone down enough for a point then the pounding begins.
I've seen lots of huginns set up for a decent tank with dual extenders and some with plates. However, I still think they would be at a disadvantage unless it was a very high SP pilot who is also crafty.
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"Back away from the Tatoo Ink" |
Titan Pilot
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.01 20:24:00 -
[4]
Rapier and Huginn have the advantage. They can web 40K+ and limit the Vaga's DPS to missiles and drones (which he can easily kill with his own).
The only thing the Vaga can do is dive bomb him and hope he freaks out and runs or panics and dies. And if the Rapier/Huginn has backup on the other side of the gate, BYE BYE Vaga 
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Second Born
Morphed Dynamics
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Posted - 2008.06.01 20:26:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Titan Pilot
Rapier and Huginn have the advantage. They can web 40K+ and limit the Vaga's DPS to missiles and drones (which he can easily kill with his own).
The only thing the Vaga can do is dive bomb him and hope he freaks out and runs or panics and dies. And if the Rapier/Huginn has backup on the other side of the gate, BYE BYE Vaga
Very few Rapiers/Huginns are fitting Domination Disruptors with Claymores in gang to get that 40km scramble range.
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Maeltstome
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.01 20:45:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Titan Pilot
Rapier and Huginn have the advantage. They can web 40K+ and limit the Vaga's DPS to missiles and drones (which he can easily kill with his own).
The only thing the Vaga can do is dive bomb him and hope he freaks out and runs or panics and dies. And if the Rapier/Huginn has backup on the other side of the gate, BYE BYE Vaga
I hope thats an alt. I also hope your having a laugh - if you ever fly either one of these ships you'll know exactly how it goes down. Vaga even webbed from 30km will still score *some* hits on a huginn, and drones will help too. ECM drones will get at least one jam before the vaga goes down, then a few seconds later the vaga will either have ran or melted what little defences it has.
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[12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5
[12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF |
DubanFP
Four Rings
Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.06.01 21:13:00 -
[7]
Edited by: DubanFP on 01/06/2008 21:14:11
Originally by: Maeltstome
I hope thats an alt. I also hope your having a laugh - if you ever fly either one of these ships you'll know exactly how it goes down. Vaga even webbed from 30km will still score *some* hits on a huginn, and drones will help too. ECM drones will get at least one jam before the vaga goes down, then a few seconds later the vaga will either have ran or melted what little defences it has.
Vaga vs Huginn
At best the huginn uses the web to get WAY WAY WAY outside warp scram range and run. At worse the vagabond is stuck and stands no chance of escape. Basically a huginn can kill a vagabond, but a vaga could never kill a half decent huginn. The Huginn can fit 3 heavy launchers, with bonus, and 4x medium drones vs 5 Lights. So it should beat out a vaga that loses half it's DPS to falloff in straitfoward power.
Anyways the web pretty much guarentees the huginns survival should it be outmatched while guarenteeing the vaga's demise should the huginn have the edge.
P.S. I'm flying a huginn right now.
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ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR |
easei
AnTi.
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.06.01 23:04:00 -
[8]
I can strongly recommend not engaging vagabonds solo in a rapier without a tracking disruptor or a perma-MWD. Otherwise it's just painful if the vaga decides to activate its guns. The only thing that could possibly keep you from running safely would be if the vaga has ECM drones and they get lucky a lot.
Huginns put out more or less equal damage, but you have the advantage because you can MWD and your missiles still hit so it's better off in a 1v1.
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Dreadpilot Roberts
Corp 1 Allstars
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.06.02 00:20:00 -
[9]
Sure vaga is able to 1v1 them. It will die 80% of the time tho. Better chance vs rapier ... but they can always run off if they're nano fitted. If they're not nano fitted .. they fail.
P.S. nano-hugin will wtfbbq a vaga.
I'm sorry, did I say u could speak ? |
Titan Pilot
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.02 04:24:00 -
[10]
Originally by: easei
I can strongly recommend not engaging vagabonds solo in a rapier without a tracking disruptor or a perma-MWD. Otherwise it's just painful if the vaga decides to activate its guns. The only thing that could possibly keep you from running safely would be if the vaga has ECM drones and they get lucky a lot.
Huginns put out more or less equal damage, but you have the advantage because you can MWD and your missiles still hit so it's better off in a 1v1.
Single TD won't do much to ACs in falloff. I have tried this tactic with miserable results. But as I have said, any Vaga who has engaged my Rapier solo will never kill me. I keep him at 40k and there is nothing he can do about it. However my point is limited to 24K so once the Arazu gets there, its all over for the poor Vaga pilot.
P.S. always pod a Vaga pilot that does over 9K. You know his implants are worth more than his ship 
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.06.02 04:50:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Second Born
Originally by: Titan Pilot
Rapier and Huginn have the advantage. They can web 40K+ and limit the Vaga's DPS to missiles and drones (which he can easily kill with his own).
The only thing the Vaga can do is dive bomb him and hope he freaks out and runs or panics and dies. And if the Rapier/Huginn has backup on the other side of the gate, BYE BYE Vaga
Very few Rapiers/Huginns are fitting Domination Disruptors with Claymores in gang to get that 40km scramble range.
Well even with a tech 1 web it would have a range of 30km
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Solid Res
Haven Front
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Posted - 2008.06.02 06:42:00 -
[12]
I fly all three and the Huginn wins hands down on a 1 v 1 pvp engagement. If I am in a Vaga or Rapier and see a Huginn I run for the hills. However, Vaga has better solo survivability as it can best control engagement (ie run away) and the Rapier can warp cloaked. So no ship is better then the other, they just have different qualities.
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Tefkros
The Dead Pod Society
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.06.02 07:07:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Tefkros on 02/06/2008 07:13:14
It makes me glad to see that noone in this thread has the slightest grasp of the concept of transversal. Without expanding, to quote the last poster, Huginn > both Vaga and Rapier. Even though I killed Huginns in a Vaga and lost my Huginn to a Vaga, props to the guy that saw what I was doing and adapted. Any vanilla Vaga dies to the Huginn and Rapier without even forcing them to warp out.
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Maeltstome
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.02 07:24:00 -
[14]
1on1, With no faction gear on either, a Vaga will never loose to a huginn (given that the pilot has common sense)
If we're agruing that the huginn uses a 30km scram and arties, then you could argue that the vaga would use falloff rigs. Might not seem that common but low's with speed rather than damage mean the extra faloff increasses the vaga's effective dps at range.
I'm getting really sick of this Huginn > Vaga view. I believed it until i actually FLEW both of them a decent ammount. Took me ages to find a setup that could consistently kill a vaga for my hugin, and even then it's specialised for that... which leaves it open to other types of gank.
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[12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5
[12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF |
Tefkros
The Dead Pod Society
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.06.02 07:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Maeltstome
1on1, With no faction gear on either, a Vaga will never loose to a huginn (given that the pilot has common sense)
If we're agruing that the huginn uses a 30km scram and arties, then you could argue that the vaga would use falloff rigs. Might not seem that common but low's with speed rather than damage mean the extra faloff increasses the vaga's effective dps at range.
I'm getting really sick of this Huginn > Vaga view. I believed it until i actually FLEW both of them a decent ammount. Took me ages to find a setup that could consistently kill a vaga for my hugin, and even then it's specialised for that... which leaves it open to other types of gank.
You can get sick all you like. You are doing it wrong :)
Generic Vaga vs generic Huginn = dead Vaga 100% of the time.
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Squatdog
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.06.02 10:04:00 -
[16]
Vaga can still put out a fair amount of DPS while webbed and has way better tank.
Huginn can still win depending on the relative set-ups and skill levels. |
Vanessa Vale
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Posted - 2008.06.02 10:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Titan Pilot
Single TD won't do much to ACs in falloff. I have tried this tactic with miserable results. But as I have said, any Vaga who has engaged my Rapier solo will never kill me. I keep him at
A single TD now reduces the vagabonds falloff by over 40%, remember?
Minmatar Boost Brigade |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.02 10:28:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tefkros
You can get sick all you like. You are doing it wrong :)
Generic Vaga vs generic Huginn = dead Vaga 100% of the time.
Please elaborate. I'm obtaining a Huggin fairly soon, so I'd love to hear.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Mo adib
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Posted - 2008.06.02 10:35:00 -
[19]
tbo when I am flying a good gank vaga around I dont really worry about a solo hugin or rapier, I do worry about one that has anything else with em.
if you want to ensure a little safety against hugins and rapiers solo, instead of poly carb rigging put on the falloff increase rigs with dual 180s shouldnt have much problem with the fittings and you will be hitting decent at the range of a tech 2 warp disruptor, hell maybe even good enough to hit at domi disruptor range. I believe falloff with two extender rigs and hac 5 is 29k but I am just pulling that from memory and I am not an eft warrior so I cant just pull it up right quick.
additionally the little concern I have for these ships when they are solo is only for the hugin, dps is so terrible on all but a few setups for the rapier that the most it could do is run away.
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Vengarioth Skullshanks
Asgard Schiffswerften
Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.06.02 11:21:00 -
[20]
1vs1 A decent Vaga pilot will have a good chance to kill/force to retreat a single Huginn/Rapier.
However more likely is you get minced by the friends of the huginn pilot. 
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Solid Res
Haven Front
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Posted - 2008.06.02 14:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mo adib
tbo when I am flying a good gank vaga around I dont really worry about a solo hugin or rapier, I do worry about one that has anything else with em.
And how do you know if the Huginn is solo? Will you take the chance and get in web range? Once you are webbed/scrammed then you are screwed if the Huginn has backup. You just lost your key ability and that is the ability to disengage from a fight. This is the key reason I don't engage a solo Huginn (unless I have my own backup).
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Bootleg Greg
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Posted - 2008.06.02 15:29:00 -
[22]
Thanks everyone for the positive feedback. So the conclusion is, for the most part, a Vagabond can never actually win a fight against either ships considering the fact it will run away, so there is no point to engage one.
Thanks again,
Bootleg
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Erocitnom
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Posted - 2008.06.02 18:00:00 -
[23]
well if you have ec-300 and get lucky with a jam you can kill it, or get close enough on inital aproach and have a neut fitted. but in general rapiers arnt alone so hes probling tackling to wait for his friends.
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ClogMan
Unknown-Heroes
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Posted - 2008.06.03 10:47:00 -
[24]
As a vaga and huginn pilot, id take on a vaga in my huginn anytime.
Unless the huginn ****s up, or the vaga lands right ontop of him or get lucky with some ECM drones, i can't see how the huginn can loose.
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Vengarioth Skullshanks
Asgard Schiffswerften
Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.06.03 11:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: ClogMan
As a vaga and huginn pilot, id take on a vaga in my huginn anytime.
Unless the huginn ****s up, or the vaga lands right ontop of him or get lucky with some ECM drones, i can't see how the huginn can loose.
Vaga has a slightly stronger tank due to more hp and better resists and simply more dps as long as the fight takes place in disruptor range. Of course the huginn pilot could easily disengage.
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sakana
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.03 11:42:00 -
[26]
Edited by: sakana on 03/06/2008 11:46:07
Originally by: Titan Pilot
Rapier and Huginn have the advantage. They can web 40K+ and limit the Vaga's DPS to missiles and drones (which he can easily kill with his own).
The only thing the Vaga can do is dive bomb him and hope he freaks out and runs or panics and dies. And if the Rapier/Huginn has backup on the other side of the gate, BYE BYE Vaga
If a huginn is webbing a vaga at 40km, its very likely the vaga can just warp out.
Usually in a vaga vs huginn or vaga vs rapier the vaga should win DPS wise, but will have trouble locking the hug/rap down to prevent it warping.
But yea, if the rapier/huginn has support close by, you could be in trouble ;)
edit: Also, to boost Maeltstome post about falloff vagas, I use them all the time, and you get 30km falloff with barrage and 22km with rep fleet EMP, so yea, it'd be v handy when fitting hugs/raps.
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