| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
FlashBack
   |
Posted - 2004.05.06 23:23:00 -
[1]
I sent this message to CCP support. They advised me to post this on the forum so other people could give their opinions.
Note: I'm not a carebear, but i do believe in fair play.
--message--
For a while now CCP has inserted a new feature that will get your ship out of harms way if your system or internet connection goes down. The right title for this feature is called "jump to safe spot" as i recall from reading on the forums.
Recently 1 specific pirate has entered our protected system and has destroyed numerous industrials. Now every time we come into action and have him trapped in a system, he simply logs off and logs in with another character. With this character he monitors the system his alt character was in and will only log back in if the system and surrounding systems are clear. Their ship only stays in space for 90 seconds after dissapearing from the cluster.
I see this as an exploit, since this feature was meant to be used for technical problems and not for a way to escape from an upcoming threat.
This exploit could be erased from the game simply by doing the following.
1. disable the warp to safety feature when a player hits the "quit game" option.
2. extend the time that a ship will stay in space to let's say 15 minutes. This could give guarding forces the possibility to try and find the pirate and destroy their ship.
|
qapchure
|
Posted - 2004.05.07 00:23:00 -
[2]
 UM, no! This is a bad idea, mainly because most people that do use this feature are the ones with the technicalproblems. IF there is anythign i have hated in this game is being podded by NPC rats due to being logged. So i love this feature and hope that CCP see's fit to leave it as is.
|
Maidel
|
Posted - 2004.05.07 02:22:00 -
[3]
i have to agree - the current system is not perfect - but the warp away has saved me on at least 2 occations from being blown to bits by npcs when the cats pulled the board band cable out. (they do it when they are hungry and want attention...)
I feel the problem with this is not the warp away feature, but the use of alts - ALTS SHOULD BE BANNED! I can see no reason for having 2 active characters on 1 account appart from a pirate who uses one as a hauler in high sec space (which is cheating imo any way)
sorry for hijacking the threat - but i think u have found a problem, but are approaching the solution from the wrong angle.
'Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Sansha's Ravager, wrecking for 554.6 damage. - they do work occationally' |
FlashBack
|
Posted - 2004.05.07 14:28:00 -
[4]
I never actually mentioned that the feature should be removed. It should be tweaked to make it a non exploitable feature.
1. Don't warp to safety when you hit the "close game" button. If i think really hard about it you could get a graphical bug and want to relog by pressing "esc" and then "close game". So this would be not an option since your ship would get shot to scrap metal in the meantime.
2. Extend the time that a ship will stay in space. When you are hunting rats you will automaticly warp to a safe spot. No harm done to everyone who realy needs this feature. Setting the time to about 15 minutes would give the guarding forces the ability to track down the threat. With that the warp to safety feature should always warp to a moon or planet. This way it won't be inpossible to warp to the ship.
I don't see how the second option could cause any harm to players actually in need of the feature. Players that are abusing it will think twice before simply logging off to avoid their ship being wrecked.
All comments are welcome
|
Maidel
|
Posted - 2004.05.07 14:35:00 -
[5]
I think ur second sugesstions are better - but i still think u are attacking this from the wrong end of the problem - its the alts issue that should be addressed
'Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Sansha's Ravager, wrecking for 554.6 damage. - they do work occationally' |
Bared Bel'Medar
|
Posted - 2004.05.07 14:45:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Bared Bel'Medar on 07/05/2004 14:48:07
Yes it is, at the moment. As a Stainer, its no secret I've used it frequently. I thik its an extrememly viable exploit though, as "everyone" is doing. Safe spots are fairly difficult to find, especially some of the out of system ones that are hard to get a bead on. I think that one of two things HAS to be done. 1: the safe spot ability be removed, i.e. a bm can only be withen 100k of a NATURAL object (no player produced objects) and you can not warp to a gangmate who is more than 100km from a natural object; or 2, using the scanner you can war to an object, or have a devise that will allow us to warp to an object, say a ship 50 au from an object? So, until CCP fixes that I will proudly say CCP is endorsing the exploitation of the game.
*EDIT* However, by doing that i makes it kind of difficult to escape a losing battle, so, larger will have a better chance of crushing thier enemy, which makes warping even to a moon pointless with option 2, which is why I endorse option 1. Because geven current mechnics, warping to a belt or a moon is still viable.
I am Jack's broken moral compass. I am Jack's STILL trapped in eve limbo. maybe not for much longer... |
FlashBack
|
Posted - 2004.05.07 14:45:00 -
[7]
I don't really think that all players with multiple characters on 1 account are pirates, at least i know i'm not  . But then again, we can only guess about the rest of the players. I think a lot of players created alts in the time where areas like yulai and surrounding system would crash, leaving everyone in a state of shock as they could not play their favorite game.
As for solving this problem, i don't think CCP will remove all alt characters from the game, as this will **** off almost everyone. I'm not saying it's not a good sollution for the problem, CCP will never fix the exploit in such a way.
Then we have the players with 2 accounts, these could be pirates as well doing the same as the alt character does, they just don't need to relog.
I still think extending the time that ships stay in space is the only workable sollution for this problem. When they know their ship will be shot to pieces when they log out they will try a little harder to escape, and that's what pirating is all about i think.
|
DeFood
|
Posted - 2004.05.07 14:47:00 -
[8]
I think the "feature" being exploited here is the ability to check a system for number of pilots.
Having accurate pilot count per sector - while a ligimate piece of information we could reasonably expect CONCORD to provide - has a number of metagame uses - plus it makes very little sense that such accurate information is available in 0.0 space. Perhaps pilot count should have an inaccuracy - that increases with lower sec ratings.
Next - I can't understand the point of a warp-to-safety with a short disconnect timer. Warp-To-Safety surely does fulfill its primary objective - prevent players being ganked by NPCs. But the short amount of time the ship stays onlne, plus the fact that no one can warp to its location, means that the ship has effectivly simply been insta logged.
So either leave the ship in space longer - so MWD equipped ships can attempt to find it - or (even better) ensure that the safe point selected is within 100km, and appears as a selectable warp target.
Sure - if you disconnect your ship will be vulnerable to PCs - but protecting you from PCs isnt the intent of the feature - its supposed to protect disconnected pilots from NPCs.
|
Cairo
|
Posted - 2004.05.07 14:49:00 -
[9]
Neither one of the original suggestions work:
1) If you make 'Quit game' not safe-warp the ship, what's there to stop me from physically pulling the ethernet cable from my ADSL box and hence 'losing connection'?. My ADSL box is within my arm's reach so this would be no feat at all. There's absolutely NO way for the client or server to differentiate between genuine connection problems and me pulling the plug.
2) If you make the warp-out time 15 minutes, then the original reason for implementing this feature (warping ships to safety when technical problems arise, to avoid getting ganked by NPCs) will be null and void. I don't know what kind of NPCs you fight, but the ones I'm regularly up against won't take that long to chew my ship to bits.
It's commendable that you try to tackle a clear problem in the system, but these ideas won't work :/
|
FlashBack
|
Posted - 2004.05.07 14:59:00 -
[10]
@ Cairo
when you unplug your ethernet cable, that will also disrupt your Kazaa downloads m8 Just think of the hell you will have to go trough when you can't watch the latest enterprise series for another 3 minutes  . Ok i see your point, but in my previous post i aleady mentioned that the first sollution wouldn't be the best.
Ships shouldn't stay in the position they were left for 15 minutes, they should warp to a "safe spot" and stay there for 15 minutes (or more). Also the safespot should be warpable for other players (like 100km from a moon or planet.)
If you have a meaning about this, please reply.
|
Riddari
|
Posted - 2004.05.07 15:01:00 -
[11]
As far as I know the "warp to safe spot" doesn't work if his ship is warp scrambled.
So scramble it.
¼©¼
a history |
Cairo
|
Posted - 2004.05.07 15:09:00 -
[12]
FlashBack,
Oh yeah.. Warping to a safe spot and staying THERE for 15 minutes.. That would work for me. I was barking up the wrong tree apparently :)
|
Lefia
|
Posted - 2004.05.07 15:14:00 -
[13]
I think maybe making the safe log out only work if you haven't performed piracy in the system within the last 15-20 minutes. IE if you attack another player you have to wait 20 minutes before the safe-spot warp will become active. This isn't a perfect solution because you could still crash while attacking someone and be screwed, but I think it would fix a majority of the issues with only causing a few occasional legitimate problems.
Originally by: hired goon
------------------------------------------------
I agree with every point and counter point that has been brought up in this and every other argument ever had.
--------- |
Darsk'hul
|
Posted - 2004.05.07 16:05:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Darsk'hul on 07/05/2004 16:08:12
I think about a more repressive system.
If you log off while in space and log in with another character of your account within a certain amount of time (say 10 minutes), you get an "exploit warning". After a certain amount of warning, your account is "reseted" : you keep all your item, but all your characters drop to 0 skillpoints 
Exploit warning can be justified or petitionned.
One way the server has to verify that your connection is really down is to ping you every 10 sec for 10min.
__________
No more CEO of Placid Partners Inc.
Contact for this corp is now Yilo.
Freelancer at Lost Order |
Percivs
|
Posted - 2004.05.07 17:50:00 -
[15]
FlashBack,
Here is my solution:
Currently, when you perform an act of agression against the owner of a gate, you are tagged and cannot jump through the gate for a period of time (15 minutes?). This has been critical in 0.0 space when people have performed an act of aggression against a PC faction and attempted to chase those PCs in to other systems. Because they attacked the PC faction, they are prevented from giving chase out of system. The gates block them.
I'd recommend that a flag be added for "initiating aggression against PCs."
If you are attacking another PC, you are prevented from "warping to safety." If you attack an NPC, this does not kick in. If you are responding to aggression, it does not kick in.
This puts the risk on the side of those people who initiate PvP action. Since PvP isn't for the faint of heart, I don't see this as a significant risk increase.
I'd like to tender a recommendation though for those who have suffered these "exploits." I have friends who have run in to connection problems and rather than allowing their corp-mate and gang-mate to "warp to safety" they've webbed and warp disrupted his departing ship so that he could return and not have to spend travel time after relogging.
If you get your hunters together to warp disrupt and propulsion jam, you can hold anyone - even someone who is attempting to log.
It requires very good coordination though, and voice chat helps. Once you have them, they're easy to destroy - and they're not going to fight back for a couple of minutes (till they disappear).
Eitherway, I think that manual safe spots are another issue and I don't have a real answer presently. I will need more experience in 0.0 space before I have an opinion of whether they are "abusable," or just a "feature" of the game.
---
"All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E. |
Percivs
|
Posted - 2004.05.07 18:04:00 -
[16]
 Originally by: Darsk'hul
Edited by: Darsk'hul on 07/05/2004 16:08:12
I think about a more repressive system.
.
.
.
Troll
---
"All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E. |
FlashBack
|
Posted - 2004.05.08 13:37:00 -
[17]
Keep this thread running, give me your opinion on this 
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |