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Sunwillow Auryn
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Posted - 2008.06.06 07:23:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Sunwillow Auryn on 06/06/2008 07:24:24
I was wondering about this the other day - I may be being cynical but I can't see who would really do it.
Nil sec players: Might be interested in it, as it is there to provide 'a different kind of' ship-to-ship combat. However, they would have to drop their alliances or use alt to take part, and they might not like the 'dumbed down' ship-to-ship combat mechanic.
Low sec players: What's the incentive? From what I've seen (my perspective is limited to being a target) most low seccers make a living by feeding off the high sec players who stray into their territory. FW could well increase that supply, giving them no incentive to change behavior and lots of incentive to keep on doing what they do.
High sec players: Allegedly the main targets of FW, the expansion is meant to be designed to get ship-vs-ship combat-shy people into the classic PvP fighting scenario. As one of these players, I was tempted - I want the chance to earn ranks and medals, and the level playing field in the missions was an interesting step. However, I will not be doing it, partly because I'm a CEO of a corp and would have to leave the corp to sign up (or sign up the corporation as a whole which would not be fair on many of the members who are aligned to Gallente or Minmatar), but mostly becaus to get to this level playing field that CCP are so keen to harp on about, I have to travel through 10-15 low sec systems just to get there. This is *not* a level playing field, and a T1 frigate, fitted cheaply enough to lose, piloted by someone new to ship-vs-ship combat, would not stand a chance even now in low sec.
I think that FW will see an initial surge of people trying this out, mainly from high sec people and nil sec alts, but with a corresponding increase in low sec pirating (formed by both current low seccers and the nil seccers who can still do this kind of thing without leaving their allicnaces). The high sec players and the nil sec alts will very quickly get annoyed at the constant ganking to and from, and will return to their previous day jobs. All this leaves is a handful of players grimly sticking through FW content and more relatively helpless targets for the low sec gankers.
I hope I'm wrong, but from what I've seen so far the above seems to be a likely outcome. Nice press for CCP though - as a game mechanic it looks great, similar to the Realm vs realm combat in DAoC - but basic human nature is seen in the raw in EVE more than any other game - I just can't see it working.
(Probably this is a thousandth thread on the subject since most threads are, after all... sorry to those mortally offended by this. I did try to use the wonderful search feature the site offers though and didn't find too much related before I posted.)
Edit - yes I can see the thread on the front page about FW failing, but that's a 'why can't alliance players join' rant ;)
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Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.06.06 07:28:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Sunwillow Auryn
Edited by: Sunwillow Auryn on 06/06/2008 07:24:24
I was wondering about this the other day - I may be being cynical but I can't see who would really do it.
Nil sec players: Might be interested in it, as it is there to provide 'a different kind of' ship-to-ship combat. However, they would have to drop their alliances or use alt to take part, and they might not like the 'dumbed down' ship-to-ship combat mechanic.
Low sec players: What's the incentive? From what I've seen (my perspective is limited to being a target) most low seccers make a living by feeding off the high sec players who stray into their territory. FW could well increase that supply, giving them no incentive to change behavior and lots of incentive to keep on doing what they do.
High sec players: Allegedly the main targets of FW, the expansion is meant to be designed to get ship-vs-ship combat-shy people into the classic PvP fighting scenario. As one of these players, I was tempted - I want the chance to earn ranks and medals, and the level playing field in the missions was an interesting step. However, I will not be doing it, partly because I'm a CEO of a corp and would have to leave the corp to sign up (or sign up the corporation as a whole which would not be fair on many of the members who are aligned to Gallente or Minmatar), but mostly becaus to get to this level playing field that CCP are so keen to harp on about, I have to travel through 10-15 low sec systems just to get there. This is *not* a level playing field, and a T1 frigate, fitted cheaply enough to lose, piloted by someone new to ship-vs-ship combat, would not stand a chance even now in low sec.
I think that FW will see an initial surge of people trying this out, mainly from high sec people and nil sec alts, but with a corresponding increase in low sec pirating (formed by both current low seccers and the nil seccers who can still do this kind of thing without leaving their allicnaces). The high sec players and the nil sec alts will very quickly get annoyed at the constant ganking to and from, and will return to their previous day jobs. All this leaves is a handful of players grimly sticking through FW content and more relatively helpless targets for the low sec gankers.
I hope I'm wrong, but from what I've seen so far the above seems to be a likely outcome. Nice press for CCP though - as a game mechanic it looks great, similar to the Realm vs realm combat in DAoC - but basic human nature is seen in the raw in EVE more than any other game - I just can't see it working.
(Probably this is a thousandth thread on the subject since most threads are, after all... sorry to those mortally offended by this. I did try to use the wonderful search feature the site offers though and didn't find too much related before I posted.)
Edit - yes I can see the thread on the front page about FW failing, but that's a 'why can't alliance players join' rant ;)
Definitive answer here--you're welcome.
Also, what will this mean for female gamers? WILL THEY TAKE TO FW OR SIT IT OUT?
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Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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Haas Tabris
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Posted - 2008.06.06 07:30:00 -
[3]
hey, stop stealing my threads. :-)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=790028
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Sunwillow Auryn
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Posted - 2008.06.06 07:32:00 -
[4]
Yes - please see my edit in original post ;)
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Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:04:00 -
[5]
Topic # 1000.
How about we just look at what happens instead of making pointless topics...
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Zana McLizzy
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:06:00 -
[6]
I couldn't care less about FW. I'd rather have CCP pay attention to the ****load of bugs that are in the game currently and devote their time to fixing those, not to mention the unplayable lag...
Then, if that happens, only then I would even ever get interested. But it seems CCP just keeps adding **** to the game and turns a def ear when it comes to customer care.
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Luh Windan
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sunwillow Auryn
stuff
Hey - you can predict the future *and* you know what everyone is thinking. You should see if CCP will employ you.
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:41:00 -
[8]
This thread was doomed before you clicked Post.
Originally by: Lance Fighter
This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route. |
Fanjita
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Posted - 2008.06.06 11:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Zana McLizzy
I couldn't care less about FW. I'd rather have CCP pay attention to the ****load of bugs that are in the game currently and devote their time to fixing those, not to mention the unplayable lag...
Then, if that happens, only then I would even ever get interested. But it seems CCP just keeps adding **** to the game and turns a def ear when it comes to customer care.
/Signed
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Sopha Serpentia
Core Dynamics
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Posted - 2008.06.06 11:13:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sunwillow Auryn
rabble rabble another whine thread
Polite constructive answer: Why don't you wait and play it before shooting your mouth off with half baked assumptions. Nothing you say here, at this juncture, is going to change ANYTHING, you just come across as a typical forum whiner doing a lengthy version of "OMG the sky is falling, eve is dieing!!!111!!!one."
Not so polite answer: GTFO. Can I have your stuff?
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Lo3d3R
MAFIA
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.06.06 11:34:00 -
[11]
negativity beforehand is the real failing, you win at failing.
___________________
Sexy Time:  |
Fifth Horseman
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Posted - 2008.06.06 11:36:00 -
[12]
Doomsaying before event apparently is bad.
(UNLESS ITS A CARRIER NERF, SOCIAL HYPOCRISY. EVE WIN)
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Did I upset the wrong alliance with this post? Please don't ban me when it's your shift to control the Mitnal account.
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Stefx
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2008.06.06 11:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lo3d3R
negativity beforehand is the real failing, you win at failing.
/thread
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MOP recruiting Industrialists/miners/traders/missioners/etc |
Jakke Logan
F Off And Die
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Posted - 2008.06.06 12:03:00 -
[14]
FW as currently on the test server and as it will be unceremoniously dumped onto us Tuesday most definitely is failed before arrival. And the problem is the design is so poorly thought out that CCP really has no way to fix it once released so that it actually works as they intend without seriously compromising the fundamentals of EVE (open PVP, no instances, etc, no CONCORD outside highsec).
Broken:
1. No mechanism at release to recover from negative faction standings. Once you are in, you are in, participants will find themselves locked out of more than half the game area.
2. The deadspace complexes can be probed out and traveled to easily by fast ships that aren't the T1 noobships the gates restrict participants to. CCP, instead of fixing this calls doing so an exploit, when clearly it isn't to cover for the fact that they can't be bothered to either fix this or do the logical thing (remove the ship type restrictions so the FW participants can field what the pirates will be fielding)
The stupid:
1. The exclusion of alliances. This locks most PVP'ers out of what is supposed to be a PVP system. This is inherently unfair and has and WILL generate a lot of resentment from the hardcore community when they realize the only thing for them in a WHOLE FREAKING EXPANSION is an "align to" button.
2. FW players, once they want to join an alliance, lose out and can no longer participate.
3. The Devs are being hopelessly naive to think that those excluded won't show up with far better ships than the missions allow and blow faction warriors back to Jita. This is going to start happening within the first hour.
At the very least the missing and fundamentally broken stuff should prevent the release on Tuesday. It isn't going to. When did John Smedley and Julio Torres get hired by CCP and put in charge of game releases?
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Luh Windan
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.06.06 12:26:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Luh Windan on 06/06/2008 12:27:11
Originally by: Jakke Logan
1. No mechanism at release to recover from negative faction standings. Once you are in, you are in, participants will find themselves locked out of more than half the game area.
So you want consequence free playing? Lets all move to the test server.
Originally by: Jakke Logan
2. The deadspace complexes can be probed out and traveled to easily by fast ships that aren't the T1 noobships the gates restrict participants to. CCP, instead of fixing this calls doing so an exploit, when clearly it isn't to cover for the fact that they can't be bothered to either fix this or do the logical thing (remove the ship type restrictions so the FW participants can field what the pirates will be fielding)
So it's not going to be straight forward. Once again we get the implication that all the participants in FW are going to be idiots - unable to PvP and unable to learn or adapt.
Originally by: Jakke Logan
1. The exclusion of alliances. This locks most PVP'ers out of what is supposed to be a PVP system. This is inherently unfair and has and WILL generate a lot of resentment from the hardcore community when they realize the only thing for them in a WHOLE FREAKING EXPANSION is an "align to" button.
For goodness sake - since I don't have the time to particpate in Alliance warfare perhaps I will start a "Get Rid Of Alliances" campaign.
Originally by: Jakke Logan
2. FW players, once they want to join an alliance, lose out and can no longer participate.
Oh Noes the sky is falling.
Originally by: Jakke Logan
3. The Devs are being hopelessly naive to think that those excluded won't show up with far better ships than the missions allow and blow faction warriors back to Jita. This is going to start happening within the first hour.
And once again we get the implication that all the participants in FW are going to be idiots - unable to PvP and unable to learn or adapt. FW warfare is not going to be nicey nicey - oh noes. What it will be is PvP for those of us who don't have the time (or inclination - I have to say all the e-peen waving and politics does not appeal even if I did have the time) to participate in nullsec alliances.
There has been so much crying from nullsec'rs over this I can only assume that you are feeling very threatened for some reason. Will be interesting to see why.
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Jakke Logan
F Off And Die
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Posted - 2008.06.06 14:12:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jakke Logan on 06/06/2008 14:13:34
Will the FW participants be idiots? No, I don't think the average person who plays a MMO comes from the "idiot" category at all.
Inexperienced != idiot.
Because of the restrictions and the blanket ban on alliance members being part of FW, the vast majority of those trying it will be inexperienced. For many of them it will be their first PVP experience.
Which is very unfair to them considering people like that are helpless vs experienced pirates. Also, I think it's bad design to mix PVE with PVP in the first place, since the ship fittings are completely different...
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Doonoo Boonoo
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Posted - 2008.06.06 14:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jakke Logan
Edited by: Jakke Logan on 06/06/2008 14:13:34
Because of the restrictions and the blanket ban on alliance members being part of FW, the vast majority of those trying it will be inexperienced. For many of them it will be their first PVP experience.
Which is very unfair to them considering people like that are helpless vs experienced pirates. Also, I think it's bad design to mix PVE with PVP in the first place, since the ship fittings are completely different...
I disagree with your opinions.
Not all experienced players are in 0.0 alliances. There will be lots of experienced PvPers doing this and the newer players will learn from them.
Mixing PvP with PvE is only a problem if you are solo. Most of the players will be in gang and some will have a PvE fit while others have a PvP fit. It's called team work.
You are just crying because there's nothing in it for you.
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Oakrayven
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.06 14:32:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jakke Logan
Broken:
1. The deadspace complexes can be probed out and traveled to easily by fast ships that aren't the T1 noobships the gates restrict participants to. CCP, instead of fixing this calls doing so an exploit, when clearly it isn't to cover for the fact that they can't be bothered to either fix this or do the logical thing (remove the ship type restrictions so the FW participants can field what the pirates will be fielding)
The stupid:
2. FW players, once they want to join an alliance, lose out and can no longer participate.
3. The Devs are being hopelessly naive to think that those excluded won't show up with far better ships than the missions allow and blow faction warriors back to Jita. This is going to start happening within the first hour.
4) When did John Smedley and Julio Torres . . .
ok in order: We got into an interesting argument with some of the devs in sisi. they do have some ideas on that problem (such as locking out "banned" ships from that grid or haveing them insta-webed by hostile ships when they show up)
***** ****
Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not paranoid ENOUGH to play EVE |
Bobbie Chilli
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Posted - 2008.06.06 14:37:00 -
[19]
personally i see fw as a way of getting pvp when i want. I hope more ppl come to it tbh. 0.0 does not offer good pvp right now. the blob rules and ganks are lurking on every corner. fw is structured pvp and hopefuly that structure will mean a smaller scale, less laggy caps and more good fights. And it should be more inclusive.
I am more dissapointed with tthe mission payouts in fw which i think are a bad joke. Who in their right mind is going to run a mission for virtually no reward at such a large risk? Auto balancing is the worst idea since the iraq war.
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ShardowRhino
Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.06.06 14:55:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sunwillow Auryn
Edited by: Sunwillow Auryn on 06/06/2008 07:24:24
Edit - yes I can see the thread on the front page about FW failing, but that's a 'why can't alliance players join' rant ;)
Why didn't you look under the very first thread? Theres about a million of these stupid threads by a load of short sighted players saying the exact same thing you are.
Then theres the alliance members complaining about it. Guess they aren't happy with their version thats been out for some time, its called POS warfare and CapshipOnline.
seriously, enough with the whines and crying for the expansion yet to be released .
Thanks in advance to all the Nostrodumbazes out there looming over their cystalmeth ball thinking they are the first to post "fw is doomed...DOOOMMMMEEDDD!!!" or believe that somehow they are going to add something unique that the other 1,000,000 guys haven't rambled on about.  .
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Bobbie Chilli
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Posted - 2008.06.06 16:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: ShardowRhino
Originally by: Sunwillow Auryn
Edited by: Sunwillow Auryn on 06/06/2008 07:24:24
Edit - yes I can see the thread on the front page about FW failing, but that's a 'why can't alliance players join' rant ;)
Then theres the alliance members complaining about it. Guess they aren't happy with their version thats been out for some time, its called POS warfare and CapshipOnline.
seriously, enough with the whines and crying for the expansion yet to be released .
This tbqfh.
More to the point, there is the potential for a certain degree of jealousy from 0.0 players about fw since tbh since fw (hopfully) will promote the sort of combat they crave. Im not predicting a mass exodus but it is likely that some will move. The 0.0 players might even be subject to accusations of being bears with tons of isk while empire dwellers will be throwing away their ships (t1 ofc lol) all over the place.
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.06.06 16:14:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ShardowRhino
seriously, enough with the whines and crying for the expansion yet to be released .
yet... you go and make a massive WHINE.
congrats on being an idiot.
---------------------------------
Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Wu Jiun
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.06 16:16:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jakke Logan
Inexperienced != idiot.
Because of the restrictions and the blanket ban on alliance members being part of FW, the vast majority of those trying it will be inexperienced. For many of them it will be their first PVP experience.
Which is very unfair to them considering people like that are helpless vs experienced pirates.
Yeah and those big mean pirates were never pvp noobs? Did never have to evade bigger fish? Thats bull**** and you either know it or you are one of those noobs and fear you can't stand the heat. Well, pvp will still be pvp and not for everyone.
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Sunwillow Auryn
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Posted - 2008.06.06 17:20:00 -
[24]
I guess I fail  Sorry for wasting your collective valuable time.
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Chony
Grave Diggers
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.06 17:29:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Zana McLizzy
I couldn't care less about FW. I'd rather have CCP pay attention to the ****load of bugs that are in the game currently and devote their time to fixing those, not to mention the unplayable lag...
Then, if that happens, only then I would even ever get interested. But it seems CCP just keeps adding **** to the game and turns a def ear when it comes to customer care.
You know how they will just say oh we already have a team that works on bugs . But thats bull**** they should just send all the fw ppl over their to be bug ppl and if they cant do that fire them and replace them with more bug ppl. Seriously what a stupid waste of resources, for something no one will even care about in 3 months.
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Oakrayven
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.06 19:48:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Oakrayven on 06/06/2008 19:49:38
Originally by: Sunwillow Auryn
I guess I fail Sorry for wasting your collective valuable time.
I hate to say this but I have a feeling your right to a degree, After all thanks to the GTCs and other factors, they realy dont seem to have mutch of a clue as to how many of the accounts they have that use empire space to pay for their PvPing.
I suspect its higher than they suspect, and most of the people doing empire Pveing for their PvP main will not be that interested in their Empire Alts mucking up their faction.
***** ****
Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not paranoid ENOUGH to play EVE |
She Storm
Domini Umbrus
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.06.06 20:48:00 -
[27]
Quote:
I couldn't care less about FW. I'd rather have CCP pay attention to the ****load of bugs that are in the game currently and devote their time to fixing those, not to mention the unplayable lag...
/signed
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Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.06 20:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jakke Logan
stuf
copy pasta much?
"Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time" |
Raastah Fedajin
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Posted - 2008.06.06 21:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sunwillow Auryn
High sec players: Allegedly the main targets of FW, the expansion is meant to be designed to get ship-vs-ship combat-shy people into the classic PvP fighting scenario. As one of these players, I was tempted - I want the chance to earn ranks and medals, and the level playing field in the missions was an interesting step. However, I will not be doing it, partly because I'm a CEO of a corp and would have to leave the corp to sign up (or sign up the corporation as a whole which would not be fair on many of the members who are aligned to Gallente or Minmatar), but mostly becaus to get to this level playing field that CCP are so keen to harp on about, I have to travel through 10-15 low sec systems just to get there. This is *not* a level playing field, and a T1 frigate, fitted cheaply enough to lose, piloted by someone new to ship-vs-ship combat, would not stand a chance even now in low sec.
So you are saying that:
a) every high sec player is a CEO?
b) every frigate pilot has to fly alone to "get there"
Why do player like you do not get the bigger picture.
As a new player I can tell u there are two ways to play EVE (actually there are way more, I know...but to make a point)
1. You meet the right pilots very early, find a place in 0.0. Get trained well, get supported with ships and ISK and learn PVP from scratch!
2. You fly around alone mining an running missions.
You enter a Corp that aims at joining an alliance but while they are "not ready yet" members are a big mining-chat or mission running chat.
Then later they join an alliance and while all younger players cannot afford losing some BS or cannot fly them how they should be able to fly them they stay in high sec or lose their 80 mio ISK ship and have to work some weeks to buy one more.
Now CCP says. Hey donŠt be afraid. Fit a frigate and try to find a group with the same goal and go fight for ur race.
Ok there might be pirates, but there might be alliances as well supporting "their" race and trying to bring theire brothers through to the complexes.
BTW somebody might notice that this would be alliances taking part in FW without members leaving the alliance, right?
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ShardowRhino
Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.06.07 02:47:00 -
[30]
Edited by: ShardowRhino on 07/06/2008 02:52:21
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Originally by: ShardowRhino
seriously, enough with the whines and crying for the expansion yet to be released .
yet... you go and make a massive WHINE.
congrats on being an idiot.
hahahaha, congrats on being a complete moron. you clearly have not trained "humor" to level 1 yet. If your reallly soooo dense as to not realize that im laughing at all of these stupid "FW Is DOA!" threads and made a thread to mock them, i feel sorry for you. But i feel even worse for the bright yellow helmet you have to wear all day.
GG idiot
(edit due to the fact i cannot point out the apparent mental inefficiencies of the quoted player without getting *s over a word that is not considered foul by 99% of the world's population.I guess "idiot" is fine but a word that shows the slow or zero level of mental development isn't. )
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