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Since the Republic is on life support..

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Uilliam Nebel Viziam	Posted - 2008.06.06 13:02:00 - [1] As some elements of the Brutor tribe are hell bent on turning the Minmatar Republic into a new and fun experiment with facism, with Maleatu Shakor at the helm. And the disolvement of the Republic's parliment by Prime Minister Karin Midular has no doubt paved the way for more anarchy. I'd just like to take this time to express a very Amarrian thought on these turn of events. Ha Ha!! No really, it seems like forever I have had to listen to you all bash Amarr culture and society for this or that. And always with the slavery thing, and how much more righteous the Republic is. Maybe if you people had been paying more attention to the nefarious elements within your own soverign state, instead of always looking to criticize your neighbors, you wouldn't be in the mess you are now. But I guess generations of Gallentee handouts, and a victim mentality even though the overwhelming majority of you have never been slaves, destined the Republic to end up this way. So good work Matari, you have basically proven the vast majority of the Empire's predictions for how the Republic would turn out correct. / "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.)
Lhasa Arlen Chaos Coalition The Covenant Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.06 13:18:00 - [2] Pride cometh before the fall, my brother...
Bone Orchard Royal Enterprise Infinite Innovation	Posted - 2008.06.06 13:22:00 - [3] I think what we're seeing is more akin to the Minmatar Republic detaching itself from life support, hopping off the bed of the coma-ward, and pulling it pants on. I for one would like to welcome our Minmatar overlords. >_>
Magnus Nordir	Posted - 2008.06.06 13:58:00 - [4] Originally by: Bone Orchard I think what we're seeing is more akin to the Minmatar Republic detaching itself from life support, hopping off the bed of the coma-ward, and pulling it pants on. I for one would like to welcome our Minmatar overlords. >_> Oh please. As of now, the republic is more dependant on the federation than ever. Even the Ammatar mandate alone could crush the minmatar if they wouldn't be supported by the all-mighty gallene. I suspect the matari would've been integrated into the federation a long time ago if they didn't have this grudge against being ruled over. ***************************** Love is like a war - easy to start, hard to continue, impossible to forget.
Uilliam Nebel Viziam	Posted - 2008.06.06 14:07:00 - [5] Originally by: Bone Orchard I think what we're seeing is more akin to the Minmatar Republic detaching itself from life support, hopping off the bed of the coma-ward, and pulling it pants on. I for one would like to welcome our Minmatar overlords. >_> How is the former Republic rushing to a manufactured war with the Amarr Empire a move of progress for them? / "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.)
Dionisius The Circle STYX.	Posted - 2008.06.06 15:00:00 - [6] Originally by: Magnus Nordir Originally by: Bone Orchard I think what we're seeing is more akin to the Minmatar Republic detaching itself from life support, hopping off the bed of the coma-ward, and pulling it pants on. I for one would like to welcome our Minmatar overlords. >_> Oh please. As of now, the republic is more dependant on the federation than ever. Even the Ammatar mandate alone could crush the minmatar if they wouldn't be supported by the all-mighty gallene. I suspect the matari would've been integrated into the federation a long time ago if they didn't have this grudge against being ruled over. The Minmatar Republic is a sovereign and independent state, separate of the Gallente Federation, the only ties we have are those of friendship and a mutual alliance. And has anyone heard the word WAR from the mouth of the Minmatar rulers yet? I believe not. This word has come out from the mouths of many warmongers and supposed " peace " keepers nevertheless. _____________________________________ I am the destroyer of worlds and the also the cokie thief.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.06.06 15:24:00 - [7] I take no pleasure in the chaos that has befallen the Republic. Whilst the current government's record on security issues has been appalling, a state of anarchy there could further endanger the property and lives of Imperial subjects. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Anabella Rella Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.06 15:24:00 - [8] I fear that your celebrations have begun too soon Captain Nebel. What you are witnessing is merely the rather public airing of the messy workings of a democracy attempting to sort itself out, not the collapse of the Minmatar Republic. You see within democracies such as the Republic and Federation, as opposed to totalitarian regimes such as yours or the State, we have disagreements. People are actually allowed to voice opposition to official policies and to take actions to make changes to bring those policies in line with the will of the governed. This has been the case for thousands of years and will continue to be the case in free societies. The process can sometimes be quite rough and tumble, but at the end of he day the government and the governed remain united. Do not mistake the sometimes contentious nature of the democratic process with a fracture of society. Oh, and as for your statement regarding fascist experiments--how are things going with your new ally Tibus Heth and his de facto control of the State? What you want is irrelevant. What you've chosen is at hand.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.06.06 15:25:00 - [9] Originally by: Dionisius And has anyone heard the word WAR from the mouth of the Minmatar rulers yet? I believe not. We've certainly had many synonyms for war emerge from the mouth of Shakor in the past. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.06 15:31:00 - [10] Perhaps the emperor could offer his advice on how to resolve this situation...? Wait, no, that won't work. Perhaps Khanid and the other heirs could offer input on how to properly follow succession rules? Er ... no, let's try again. Perhaps the chancellor could give his input on how to make the succession prompt? Damn. I give up. -- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today!

Uilliam Nebel Viziam	Posted - 2008.06.06 16:37:00 - [11] Yes, we do have problems in the Empire. Which we have been working out, with no small amount of difficulty. I never said we were not. But funny thing is, despite the problems we are in with an Emperor's absence, our society and government are very stable still. Sure, the holders fight, but no more so then would be unusual for our system. But lets see, the Empire been so mismanaged that a selection of our citizens in a region have decided rule by pirates would be better? No. Has the Theology Council been disolved, as the Republic Parliment appears to have been? Hmm, no. Has an extremist military faction given rise, that is manuevering the Empire to war, and our government so inept to be unable to stop it? No again. We in Amarr prefer to act like a grown up government, and acknowledge we have problems and our doing are best to sort them out. Maybe if the Matari learn something from these incidents, they can hope to sit at the adults table of governments to one day instead of off to the side under Gallentee welfare, and get to deal with grown up problems as well. Or, they can continue to carry on like teenagers, acting out of angst, and criticizing everyone else, or blaming them for their own problems some more. Freedom demands responsibility for consequence, something so far unseen in the mob of Republic rule, where action is mistaken for accomplishment on a regular basis. / "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.)
Nachshon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.06 16:51:00 - [12] This is messy, true. But it is how our government works. And don't think for a moment that we'd take long to unite if the Amarr simply threatened us. ____________________________________ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship. The True Meaning of Freedom My v
Uilliam Nebel Viziam	Posted - 2008.06.06 16:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Nachshon This is messy, true. But it is how our government works. And don't think for a moment that we'd take long to unite if the Amarr simply threatened us. Threaten you? The biggest threat you people have is yourselves. And right now, you have a bunch of war mongers trying to mobilize you to war with the Empire. Maybe the Minmatar might want to consider using some of that ability to unite, and get a hold of the train running off the track that the Republic has become. / "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.)
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.06 17:01:00 - [14] It seems appropriate to bring attention to the following, given the nature of the thread conversation: http://myeve.eve-online.com/mb/news.asp?nid=2082 -- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today!
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.06 17:02:00 - [15] P.S.: Ha Ha!! P.P.S.: When should I expect my Imperial thank-you for my part in helping to contain these vicious rebels? -- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today!
Uilliam Nebel Viziam	Posted - 2008.06.06 17:14:00 - [16] Wow, one fleet commander over steps his bounds in the Empire (And is now being dealt with in the way Amarrian law dictates.), and that is on the same scale as the problems the Republic has at the moment? No really...your joking right? / "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.)
Shintoko Akahoshi Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.06.06 17:46:00 - [17] Edited by: Shintoko Akahoshi on 06/06/2008 17:47:13 [Edited to fix a posting problem] Originally by: Anabella Rella ...totalitarian regimes such as yours or the State...Oh, and as for your statement regarding fascist experiments--how are things going with your new ally Tibus Heth and his de facto control of the State? Sorry, but I just can't let this one slip by. While I personally don't agree with Heth, I do think that he's a perfect example of the truly open and meritocratic basis of the State. If the state were a totalitarian regime, the man would have never had the opportunity to rise to power. Likewise, someday his power will wane, and others will step up to take his place. Not though nepotistic succession, as the various Amarr governments practice; nor "popularity-contest" reality-show "elections", like the Federation; nor irrational "mysticism", as is practiced by the Minmatar (if you don't agree with me here, ask any Minmatar who is an outcast because of the way their tattoos turned out). Heth rose to power in the State because he is capable, as is the case with all powerful figures in the State. Shin's writings
Rovern Hashu Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.06 18:06:00 - [18] Originally by: Becq Starforged It seems appropriate to bring attention to the following, given the nature of the thread conversation: http://myeve.eve-online.com/mb/news.asp?nid=2082 All I see is a Naval Commander accused of treason facing amarrian law. I have yet to see the rogue elements of the Republican fleet who violated another entities sovereignty being apprehended or punished. Reference:http://www.eve-online.com/news/newsFromEve.asp?newsID=2058
Bad Harlequin Chiroptera Factor	Posted - 2008.06.06 18:09:00 - [19] Originally by: Uilliam Nebel but no more so then would be unusual for our system. So how about you do your usual thing and we'll do ours? Have we executed any judges lately? Did Shakor take a physical shot at Midular? No. Did Midular have him arrested or executed? Nuh-uh. So political action is bad when we do it - but murder's okay when you use it? Wait, I forgot. Your imaginary friend forbids you to judge others by the same standards you judge yourselves by, right? Just askin'. ----- -- we all live in a yellow subroutine --
Makkar	Posted - 2008.06.06 18:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Rovern Hashu Originally by: Becq Starforged It seems appropriate to bring attention to the following, given the nature of the thread conversation: http://myeve.eve-online.com/mb/news.asp?nid=2082 All I see is a Naval Commander accused of treason facing amarrian law. I have yet to see the rogue elements of the Republican fleet who violated another entities sovereignty being apprehended or punished. Reference:http://www.eve-online.com/news/newsFromEve.asp?newsID=2058 All I see is that the notion of going off and engaging Minmatar paramilitary splinter groups in some backwater reach of space without the Empire's say-so is now considered treason. Better get a lawyer.

Uilliam Nebel Viziam	Posted - 2008.06.06 18:20:00 - [21] Originally by: Bad Harlequin So how about you do your usual thing and we'll do ours? Have we executed any judges lately? Did Shakor take a physical shot at Midular? No. Did Midular have him arrested or executed? Nuh-uh. So political action is bad when we do it - but murder's okay when you use it? Wait, I forgot. Your imaginary friend forbids you to judge others by the same standards you judge yourselves by, right? Just askin'. Wow, now throwing a jab at the Amarrian faith. We really are going by the Matari play book here. But your a realist Harlequin, you know as well as I do that a bit of murder is a lot better for a government to endure then a crippled legislator and executive branch which is what the Prime Minister's office became with the no confidence vote, and what the Republic's Parliment became with the Prime Minister's disolving of it. How many Matari now whom were in desperate need of legislation to fund their needs will go without representation now? With an executive branch rendered impotent, whom will enforce Republic law, or see to the security and restraint of the Republic armed forces? No, you have not executed any judges, or had actual physical violence break out amongst your leaders. (Yet.) But, a state where the government of the Republic is in collapse, and quite possibly going to be steam rolled by Brutor nationalist does now exist. And that is a far more dangerous situation for the Matari then the Amarr could possibly be given the current situation. / "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.)
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.06 18:24:00 - [22] Edited by: Arkady Sadik on 06/06/2008 18:25:13 Originally by: Shintoko Akahoshi Heth rose to power in the State because he is capable, as is the case with all powerful figures in the State. Most despots rise to power because they are capable. That alone is no proof, hint or even suggestion of whether Heth is - or will be - in any way not a totalitarian dictator. Considering that Heth's rise to power was started by a strike where the home guard opened fire on the workers, with his first actual grasp for power being financed by an anonymous person, I wouldn't be too fast to use the term "meritocracy" here - quite to the contrary, I think you were looking for the term "plutocracy." And indeed, your other explanation then make more sense: Quote: Not though nepotistic succession, as the various Amarr governments practice; nor "popularity-contest" reality-show "elections", like the Federation; nor irrational "mysticism", as is practiced by the Minmatar All these methods seek to find the person with the highest merit. The same as "wealth" tries to find such a person in the state with a quantifieable process. Small correction on your description of the Republic, though: The prime minister is chosen via an election, not via the Voluval.
Bad Harlequin Chiroptera Factor	Posted - 2008.06.06 18:28:00 - [23] Hang on, I must not be getting this right. In one breath you acknowlege the use of, mmmm, wet politics - but in the next, condemn the sudden removal from power of a number of individuals as a bad, destabilizing force. In one of these methods, the ousted can work to get their jobs back with enough popular or political support. I'll let you guess which one... Moreover, while I think she did it wrong and kinda backwards (citing reasons first generally prevents people from attributing them to you), there are mechanisms for the dissolution of Parliament and selecting its replacement. Or do you have an official protocol for sanctioned assassinations..? If i took a potshot at your ima- faith, well, i guess i got a bit sick of hearing "barbarian this" and "i can't think of a more creative insult that," so sorry. Wasn't applicable to what you said. Couldn't resist. You know I have these little lapses... ----- -- we all live in a yellow subroutine --
Makkar	Posted - 2008.06.06 18:40:00 - [24] Oh come on, Shin, surely you remember - the Amarr leaders aren't chosen by something as crude as nepotism - it's a perfectly civilised, holo-recorded fight to the death by people who don't actually stand to gain anything from winning in the long run, which is then capped off with a mass ritual suicide. And then there's the after-party... What system could possibly be better than that for choosing a successor?
Shintoko Akahoshi Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.06.06 18:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Arkady Sadik Small correction on your description of the Republic, though: The prime minister is chosen via an election, not via the Voluval. I'd actually maintain that the PM is chosen in part by the Voluval. How many prominent Minmatar are there who have "bad tattoos", after all? Shin's writings
Bad Harlequin Chiroptera Factor	Posted - 2008.06.06 19:19:00 - [26] Originally by: Shintoko Akahoshi Originally by: Arkady Sadik Small correction on your description of the Republic, though: The prime minister is chosen via an election, not via the Voluval. I'd actually maintain that the PM is chosen in part by the Voluval. How many prominent Minmatar are there who have "bad tattoos", after all? You might as well say the PM is chosen by the weather. If you're struck by lightning and die, you'll never get to be PM... While it limits the field - and I'm not, by the by, in any way a supporter of this superstitious exiling of "bad tattoos" - it's really no different than any other social injustice, like being born poor or a slave: either of these will also quite likely affect your chances of becoming PM, while obviously not "choosing." I smite you with the Trout of Semantics. ----- -- we all live in a yellow subroutine --
Shintoko Akahoshi Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.06.06 19:23:00 - [27] Originally by: Bad Harlequin Originally by: Shintoko Akahoshi Originally by: Arkady Sadik Small correction on your description of the Republic, though: The prime minister is chosen via an election, not via the Voluval. I'd actually maintain that the PM is chosen in part by the Voluval. How many prominent Minmatar are there who have "bad tattoos", after all? You might as well say the PM is chosen by the weather. If you're struck by lightning and die, you'll never get to be PM... While it limits the field - and I'm not, by the by, in any way a supporter of this superstitious exiling of "bad tattoos" - it's really no different than any other social injustice, like being born poor or a slave: either of these will also quite likely affect your chances of becoming PM, while obviously not "choosing." I smite you with the Trout of Semantics. True, it is no different than any other social injustice. But that really is the point, though. It's an additional social injustice that doesn't exist in the State. I mean, honestly, are there already not enough of these sorts of things, that the Minmatar need to create some more? Shin's writings
Bad Harlequin Chiroptera Factor	Posted - 2008.06.06 19:26:00 - [28] Originally by: Shintoko Akahoshi True, it is no different than any other social injustice. But that really is the point, though. It's an additional social injustice that doesn't exist in the State. I mean, honestly, are there already not enough of these sorts of things, that the Minmatar need to create some more? Well, we tried soul-crushing uniformity and a rigid wealth-based heirarchy, but we really like putting pictures on our faces and hanging out in tribes, so we did it this way instead. ----- -- we all live in a yellow subroutine --
Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2008.06.06 19:42:00 - [29] The Amarrians are just angry because their vassal in the Republic (Midular) is losing her grip on power. -------------------
Bad Harlequin Chiroptera Factor	Posted - 2008.06.06 19:45:00 - [30] Or possibly just her grip. We'll have to see what she does next... ----- -- we all live in a yellow subroutine --



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