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Fix for exploitation of ALT chars

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Neko Makai	Posted - 2004.05.09 05:32:00 - [1] How bout we make a time limit for 1. Making a new Character (First is always instant, maybe second a reduced cost, third a little more then anything after would be more then a1-4 weeks, since how many damn deletes and renews of characters do u need unless ur exploiting, specially in this game where is not like u can "Mess" your character up by choose a wrong race or wrong skill unless u really hate ur stats which u can wait several weeks for you 5th messup considering u do have 2 first free chances.) 2. Logging on onto a new CHaracter ( I would like it to be a day but it can be worked[Anything u need to do can wait IMHO. unless ur pirating or spying which is kinda exploiting. If u have a mining alt, then you can wait a day to set a tiem where u will become billy bob, a respectable mining person bla bla bla.....] Forgive me if it sounds like a rant, but im just getting ideas in the open for ppl to play with.
Anjelle	Posted - 2004.05.09 11:52:00 - [2] Yet another fantastic idea, alts are definitely exploiting the game, no matter how you look at it. One solution would be to do the style similar to FFXI as I had read, that they charge your account more cash for active characters you have, in other words base cost covers one character, and then you have to pay an extra fee to maintain 2 or 3 characters, for your EVE subscription. Think all the characters with alts are going to start chucking stuff at me now =)
Tripp Orsam	Posted - 2004.05.09 12:09:00 - [3] good points, this sounds like 1 way to solve things, howerver this is also a big punishment for innocent alts that are used merely for mining or researching and not kestrel 'hit & runs'. I guess the only way to solve this problem is to make alt information public, maybe not ingame but from the EVE website, that way people that use alts for grief will be exposed. And to make this info available in game (from a RP point of view) you could have agents that inform you of a certain characters 'afiliates' (alts) :D ----------------------------- EVE Online perfectly strikes all your free time wrecking your 1994 marriage.
Anjelle	Posted - 2004.05.09 14:18:00 - [4] Much better idea than mine, if the primary were to be exposed it would help alot. On the other hand I think alot of pirates wouldn't care if they were exposed or not, which is a loop hole.
Seska Fuzen	Posted - 2004.05.09 14:43:00 - [5] I like the idea about charging extra for alt characters but I don't think its going o be popular. I agree that there should be information from agents, you might have to pay them for the imformation on who is affliated to who. I also think that if the alt has minus sec rating then the main one shouls get a small drop too, that'll stop people from making a total pirate and another for spying. Personally I'm on my 28th character now I'm a perfectionist when I see a little mistake in the portrait I kill the character and start again. The last one I killed was cus I had a spelling mistake in the name.
Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.05.09 17:30:00 - [6] what if each character slot had a rating, based on the security statuses of all characters that have existed in that slot, and based on this rating, character deletion would take longer and longer? the rating for a slot would be accumulative, not an average, meaning that the more negative status characters you've had in a slot, the longer it takes to delete each subsiquent one. to undo the damage, you'd have to have an equally long succession of characters with positive statuses. this would only affect alt-gankers, and not impact any other type of player, including legitimate pirates, who have no reason to want to delete their career pirate characters. Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) \| Hadean Drive Yards
Istus Faranor	Posted - 2004.05.09 22:45:00 - [7] Okay wow, this is really stupid. I play another MMORPG called Ultima Online (UO for short). People there have 5 character slots. Some people use them for scouting dungeons and find party of hunters and then they get their guild to come in and demolish them. Not ONCE have I've ever heard about people ***ing about somebody using an alternate character to scout. Nor have they called them EXPLOITERS. So why whould you guys do it here? You call it exploiting..how is that so? I call it scouting and getting information. Man, if you guys played UO, you would be ***ing your asses off. It's fair game imo. I also don't see how it's any different by having a friend doing some mining seeing somebody that they dont like and calling you in is any different. It's called scouting and reporting the information you have recieved. I guess every MMORPG has their carebears. EO - they are called Carebears UO - they are called Trammies lol
Beta Vixen	Posted - 2004.05.09 22:55:00 - [8] umm ... oh mighty thinker here ... how are you going to control me? I have two EVE accounts; each operates off a separate credit card and separate email address. apparently about 30% of all players have at least two accounts. Life is uncertain (risky); that's why we eat dessert first. Life in EVE is and will remain risky, that's part of the attraction we pay CCP to provide. [If you want non-risky, go play Sims Online or something.] ** Since you likely can't eliminate the risk, you'll do better to focus on the conditions which prevent you from taking revenge on that Kestrel hit and run character rather than try to keep him from playing. ** I'm free! I'm free!! **** Imagination comes before Accomplishment.
Maidel	Posted - 2004.05.09 23:00:00 - [9] I dont think that 'carebears' are the only ppl that this affects tbh. 'Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Sansha's Ravager, wrecking for 554.6 damage. - they do work occationally'
Istus Faranor	Posted - 2004.05.09 23:37:00 - [10] Yay, beta agrees with me. :D Think of it in a realistic way. You want to send in an agent to take somebody out. Usually you dont send him in w/o any information. You get a spy/informer to blend in and get some data and report it to the assassin. Now use that in Eve Online terms. :P if that makes sense hehe
Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.05.09 23:52:00 - [11] Originally by: Istus Faranor Okay wow, this is really stupid. I play another MMORPG called Ultima Online (UO for short). People there have 5 character slots. Some people use them for scouting dungeons and find party of hunters and then they get their guild to come in and demolish them. Not ONCE have I've ever heard about people ***ing about somebody using an alternate character to scout. Nor have they called them EXPLOITERS. So why whould you guys do it here? You call it exploiting..how is that so? I call it scouting and getting information. Man, if you guys played UO, you would be **ing your asses off. It's fair game imo. I also don't see how it's any different by having a friend doing some mining seeing somebody that they dont like and calling you in is any different. It's called scouting and reporting the information you have recieved. I guess every MMORPG has their carebears. EO - they are called Carebears UO - they are called Trammies lol Kestrel missile spammers attacking industrials in 1.0 and .9, and then deleting their characters and training a new one real quick when their security status gets too low doesn't seems to equate with gathering info or scouting... could just be me, but... Kestrel hit and runs are fine. it's the avoidance of the long-term consiquences to those players by simply deleting those characters and making new ones very quickly are what i have a problem with. what they do fits the concept of what an exploit is to a T. they play in such a way that uses limitations in the game design to take direct advantage of other players who have little or no defense against their tactics. it's a cheap tactic that's viable only because characters are so easily and quickly trained to be Kestrel missile gankers, and even more easily disposed of once they become useless due to being tagged as criminals and are no longer able to fly into the highest security systems. 1.0 and .9 are supposed* to be very secure, not risk-laden minefields of danger and suprise. that's .4 and down. the security ratings for the systems are there for a reason. it makes perfect sense that there should be relatively small areas where conflict is not allowed, safe havens for all lawful pilots, provided that making money in such an area is quite slow compared to doing so outside those areas. Kestrel suicide gankers violate this design and profit from it.
Neko Makai	Posted - 2004.05.10 03:28:00 - [12] Edited by: Neko Makai on 10/05/2004 03:34:39 Make note that i also stated that your first 3 or 4 alts would be instant. meaning no wait time. THEN after the 5th alt made, it would take 3 to 4 weeks to delete them. This could be mainly for kestral ganking etc etc.. anything else dealing with crapload of alts being made Also an the old idea of background checks in addition to my idea will prevent Corp Thiefs
Neko Makai	Posted - 2004.05.10 03:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Beta Vixen umm ... oh mighty thinker here ... how are you going to control me? I have two EVE accounts; each operates off a separate credit card and separate email address. apparently about 30% of all players have at least two accounts. Life is uncertain (risky); that's why we eat dessert first. Life in EVE is and will remain risky, that's part of the attraction we pay CCP to provide. [If you want non-risky, go play Sims Online or something.] **** Since you likely can't eliminate the risk, you'll do better to focus on the conditions which prevent you from taking revenge on that Kestrel hit and run character rather than try to keep him from playing. Hey if u want to pay extra to exploit, more power to you. Personally i wouldent pay almost 30 bucks a month for game.
Neko Makai	Posted - 2004.05.10 03:31:00 - [14] Originally by: Istus Faranor Okay wow, this is really stupid. I play another MMORPG called Ultima Online (UO for short). People there have 5 character slots. Some people use them for scouting dungeons and find party of hunters and then they get their guild to come in and demolish them. Not ONCE have I've ever heard about people ***ing about somebody using an alternate character to scout. Nor have they called them EXPLOITERS. So why whould you guys do it here? You call it exploiting..how is that so? I call it scouting and getting information. Man, if you guys played UO, you would be ***ing your asses off. It's fair game imo. I also don't see how it's any different by having a friend doing some mining seeing somebody that they dont like and calling you in is any different. It's called scouting and reporting the information you have recieved. I guess every MMORPG has their carebears. EO - they are called Carebears UO - they are called Trammies lol How can u compare ultima online to EVE online.
Angry Dan	Posted - 2004.05.10 03:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Anjelle Much better idea than mine, if the primary were to be exposed it would help alot. On the other hand I think alot of pirates wouldn't care if they were exposed or not, which is a loop hole. Hmmm, a possible use for agents and corpses perhaps? ++++++++++++++++++++ CEO of the Space Munchkins. Fear my kneepads of allure! Huzzah Federation Foreign Minister - Ask about our tasty NAP's - Now in protein delicacy and cow flavour!
Paw Sandberg	Posted - 2004.05.10 05:23:00 - [16] we need a alias butten says name date made etc etc or better yet be able to use certain agents to find out the Alias if any now there could also be a skill (needs to take a while to train) for spying this skill could be used to give fake Alt info depending on lvl deferent chance of succes (maybe with a counter skill for sec agents) Thank You Paw Sandberg for all your BPC needs see http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
Istus Faranor	Posted - 2004.05.10 06:26:00 - [17] How can u compare ultima online to EVE online. Because I just did. People on EVE and on UO use alternate characters. Except only on Eve, people ***** about it and call it exploiting. While in UO, people call it scouting and part of the game. I don't see how it's any different.
Neko Makai	Posted - 2004.05.10 07:15:00 - [18] Edited by: Neko Makai on 10/05/2004 07:17:42 Originally by: Istus Faranor How can u compare ultima online to EVE online. Because I just did. People on EVE and on UO use alternate characters. Except only on Eve, people ***** about it and call it exploiting. While in UO, people call it scouting and part of the game. I don't see how it's any different. How is using a char to get a bad rep of theifing corps Scouting? Or better yet, kestral neb griefing scouting? Scouting = taking an alt to go and survey an area dangerous to main personality the way you seemed to be geared towards, although im not argueing why alts should have this time penalty
Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.05.10 12:32:00 - [19] Originally by: Istus Faranor Because I just did. People on EVE and on UO use alternate characters. Except only on Eve, people ***** about it and call it exploiting. While in UO, people call it scouting and part of the game. I don't see how it's any different. did you even read my posts? i'm not concerned at all with spys and scouting. those are legitimate. there are not security hits for such activities, as Concord couldn't care less. Kestrel suicide bombers attacking industrials and then deleting and recreating their characters is what i'm calling an exploit here. they are avoiding the consiquences of their actions, while profiting from the losses they inflict on others. if you delete negative security status characters on a slot, each deletion should take longer and longer in order to curb this abuse of the game design. how can you say this has anything to do with spying and scouting?!
ShadowHawk	Posted - 2004.05.10 18:49:00 - [20] How about just linking the three possible chars together... i.e. there is an overall history kept with the account, not the character and each character shows that information... i.e. what chars did this account have at any point, when they were born, when they died, how many skill points they had, what sec rating they had, what ever makes sense to keep... MANY of the exploits and/or scams from the past could have been tracked to a certain person if we had that level of information. Now I don't think CCP will do this, though for my part, I think it would be great... I do have two accounts as well and I use 4 of the 6 characters I have on a regular basis (for different purposes) and I don't mind anyone seeing the connection between those chars... At the same time those chars could share a wallet and hangar space... that probably would reduce some server load as you don't have to move stuff forth and back over Escrow. Deleting and recreating chars is important specially for noobs... I've seen people create 4-5 chars until they got the settings right... character creation IS a big factor in this game and if you screw up your character with 16 charisma and 12 will power but almost no int, mem or per, then you will never get anywhere... Your 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I perfectly strikes Sansha's Scavenger, wrecking for 264.3 damage.

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