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Marisal
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Posted - 2008.06.30 03:37:00 -
[241]
Edited by: Marisal on 30/06/2008 03:37:50
*sighs*
Simply put, it isn't going to happen fullstop.
If it even got past this stage of tossing varied arguments back and forth with bits of info that no one can officially verify CSM would probably have fun discussing it for a long time, then there's the possibility that CCP will turn around and say player punishment and revoking it is outside of the realm of the CSM's mandate.
If it ever went through the CSM and CCP would then have to deal with a whole host of banned players wanting specific accounts back pretty much swamping the CSM with hundreds of topics like this and the CSM will have to consider each one individually otherwise they'd look like they'd expressed favouritism destroying any respect the community has for them rendering their function useless as a representative of the community.
If people want to bring up the issue that other specific players should have also been banned but they weren't while kug was, then the issue they should be raising with the CSM is why haven't those players been banned. |
Clone 231B
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.06.30 03:48:00 -
[242]
 Originally by: Torshin
Since the question of the specifics about his ban have been asked throughout this thread, thought I would post this here. Also keep in mind that Kug is not the first nor the last to post personal information about a player on these forums and he is the only to receive an in game ban over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead GM Grimmi
Greetings,
Lead GM Grimmi here. I have been investigating the bans that were placed on your accounts recently. This is a complicated issue and I sincerely apologize for the delay in getting back to you on all this. Now, the accounts were banned, amongst other things, due to serious concerns regarding the alleged method used to collect the information you have posted on your forums. Hacking is a very serious matter and such issues cannot be taken lightly. However, our investigations have not turned up concrete proof of such criminal behavior and there is no reason for us to take action against you for that. Regarding the other TOS articles cited in the ban mail you got;
16. You may not engage in any activity that increases the difficulty and/or expense of CCP in maintaining the EVE Online client, server, web site or other services for the benefit and enjoyment of all its users.
18. You may not communicate, post or publicize any subscriber's personal information within the EVE Online game world or website.
It can be said with some fairness that the posts you made have caused quite the uproar and created an atmosphere that makes all our lives that much more harder. CCP does not condone cheating, for sure, but dealing with matters such as this one is not made any easier with all the ruckus.
Posting RL personal information about players is in no way acceptable, no matter what reasons may compel you to do so. This sort of thing can have consequences far beyond any effects you may be looking for and should not be done at all, ever.
Concerns about CCP employee misconduct should be sent to us for investigation. We did not receive any mails from you regarding the issues in question here.
In our view, you have clearly violated the above articles and we will therefore not be removing the bans on your accounts. They will remain permanently banned.
Regards,
Lead GM Grimmi
EVE Online Customer Support
The funniest part about this whole thing is that SirMolle posted Kug's personal information on the forums aswell, but nothing happened to him.
Its real cut and dry, ban SirMolle or unban Kug. |
spanky herman
Gulfonodi Industries
Shadow Donkeys
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Posted - 2008.06.30 04:48:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
The GM had done nothing wrong, simply a know GM character can't stay in game. CCP rules.
So those GM had to retire established characters to satisfy Kug anger.
That for me is sufficient reason for a permaban: willfully damaging other players character with out of games methods, more so as he used informations hacked from the GM program from what I know, so from CCP.
So they should ban any character that out GM's? If that is your policy there was an incident where a person outed a GM in public and no action was taken - should the rule also apply to that character?
As to the issue stated in the forum - CCP has a process and method to get bans investigated and lifted - just because you don't like the result doesn't mean the process is broken.
As long as the rules are applied equally I don't see a problem with them - when they are arbitrarily applied there is an issue.
It's been so long I don't remember what specifically the ban was for, I do remember reading that all official channels were exhausted at that time.
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General StarScream
Gallente
Empyrean Gallente
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Posted - 2008.06.30 06:57:00 -
[244]
Free kugu |
Juliita
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Posted - 2008.06.30 11:41:00 -
[245]
I for one would NOT support the unbanning of Kugutsumen.
While initially he did a needed job, whistleblowing the misconduct of certain CCP employees, he followed that up by a series of essentially malicious attacks on innocent members of CCP staff.
Regardless of the circumstances this was unwarranted and CCP have a right and duty to protect the interests of their employees and the company from the player base. Had Kugutsumen managed to keep his behaviour in check and truely been a 'martyred innocent' this would be a very different situation. As it was Kugutsumen attempted to start a vendetta against CCP in general, far beyond what was required to whistleblow.
You could argue the rights and wrongs of boths sides - CCP's general mishandling, Kugu's 'illegal' actions, etc... but it basically comes down to Kugu's intention to harm CCP. CCP have no moral or legal obligation to unban him, regardless of whatever indirect positive concequences his actions may have had.
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Dianabolic
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.01 21:19:00 -
[246]
Without Kugs I would never have found out that t20 had cheated.
Without Kugs I would have never spent an entire xmas trying to placate members of my corp that had to spend their festive period trying to un**** what kugs did.
When given the choice I would much rather sacrifice the former so I could avoid the latter.
On top of which, CCP don't need to give reasons - it's their game, they can (and state they can in the eula) withold rights to play for whatever reason they choose.
Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
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Zothike
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.01 21:37:00 -
[247]
i support the idea
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Waagaa Ktlehr
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.01 22:11:00 -
[248]
Edited by: Waagaa Ktlehr on 01/07/2008 22:12:10
Misleading topic title: You only discuss one single ban, your topic title suggests this considers a generic approach to bannings.
Sadly, it's just an attention seeking post to dig up old drama.
The guy acted like an ass to CCP, they have every right to ban him over that.
Case closed, next.
PS. Kugutsumen posted on the first page, don't worry Torshin, he plays.
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Flaming Lemming
Puppeteer Press
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Posted - 2008.07.06 00:21:00 -
[249]
Edited by: Flaming Lemming on 06/07/2008 00:23:14
I agree to a review of Kugs. ban (not necessarily an unbanning though)
This was such an incredibly hot-button topic, that some oversight seems very appropriate.
(BTW, are there Ninjas hiding in this forum?)
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.06 06:09:00 -
[250]
Originally by: spanky herman
Originally by: Venkul Mul
The GM had done nothing wrong, simply a know GM character can't stay in game. CCP rules.
So those GM had to retire established characters to satisfy Kug anger.
That for me is sufficient reason for a permaban: willfully damaging other players character with out of games methods, more so as he used informations hacked from the GM program from what I know, so from CCP.
So they should ban any character that out GM's? If that is your policy there was an incident where a person outed a GM in public and no action was taken - should the rule also apply to that character?
As to the issue stated in the forum - CCP has a process and method to get bans investigated and lifted - just because you don't like the result doesn't mean the process is broken.
As long as the rules are applied equally I don't see a problem with them - when they are arbitrarily applied there is an issue.
It's been so long I don't remember what specifically the ban was for, I do remember reading that all official channels were exhausted at that time.
Outing accidentally? no
Hunting for the names and outing several GM on purpose? yes
Kug statement was that he would make hell for hell (paraphrasing, but that was the sentiment) for all CCP employees/collaborators as revenge for his ban. I would never readmit him in the game after he promised and did that for a period.
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Kirgan
Pyrognome
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Posted - 2008.07.06 21:06:00 -
[251]
From what I read and remember, he recieved an unjust punishment and the whole issue should be re-examined.
Unfortunately if we must rely on the CSM to promote this, we are hosed as they seem rather inept thus far. At any rate I support this.
The best part of threads like these is how easy it becomes to spot CCP and Bob "unmarked" characters/alts.
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Ituralde
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.07.07 00:15:00 -
[252]
Kugu is a waste of carbon.
Banning him was a service to the rest of us, no matter what the real story behind the hacking gig really was.
_____________________________
Fear is the mind-killer.
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Deepspace Wanderer
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Posted - 2008.07.07 19:06:00 -
[253]
We cannot expect perfection, but we should strive for it in all ways, for there is no failure in the attempt, the only true failure is never having tried at all. |
Gokil
North Eastern Swat
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Posted - 2008.07.15 18:47:00 -
[254]
Free Kugutsumen
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.07.15 19:22:00 -
[255]
No thanks.
Dude may have uncovered some crap and (hopefully) bettered the game for it, but the way he went about it nearly nullified it. He tried to blackmail CCP with said info to get his own little private revenge.
Yeah... Saint Kug the hero. 
Dude can roll another character just like all the others who've been banned for less.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.16 03:12:00 -
[256]
I move that kugu's ban be considered for removal only if he travels to Iceland to appeal it.
Ofcourse, he'd never go there.
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Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2008.07.16 04:27:00 -
[257]
The actions of this one player paved the way to the CSM. Consider that for a moment.
Also, consider that the problem still exists, and because of that, many ex-players will not return until their cries for justice and proper oversight are answered.
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Constable Detritus
PURE Legion
Pure.
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Posted - 2008.07.16 10:41:00 -
[258]
Free kugu.
At least review the ban and then try to justify it.
¦¦¦
Eve what it lacks in frames per second it more than makes up for with drama per thread. |
fuze
InfoMorph Services Ltd
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Posted - 2008.07.16 12:07:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Marisal
PROVE he is the only one to receive a ban over posting personal info.
He wasn't banned for that. He was banned for giving CCP a hard time. That information on how it went exactly is out there. Have a look see yourself.
I do agree that posting RL info about people should be banable. But that stuff popped up here several times and not everyone got banned about it and that is 100% wrong.The point is that even though Kug is a utter a hole he still deserves to be treated like any other player. Every player should be treated exactly the same or otherwise we simply can stop playing because it would be useless anyway. |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.07.16 13:40:00 -
[260]
From the looks, Kug peed into CCP's sunday shoes and got slapped into orbit for it.
CCP is perfectly within their right to terminate business relations with individuals they have a justified animosity against.
I think there are even legal terms for that, someone more proficient in lawspeak could tell.
No support from me, obviously.
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Ideas for: Mining |
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sakana
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.16 14:37:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Ituralde
Kugu is a waste of carbon.
Banning him was a service to the rest of us, no matter what the real story behind the hacking gig really was.
I think you should go to jail, no matter if you committed a crime or not.
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Loreliee
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Posted - 2008.07.16 16:30:00 -
[262]
All I will say is that CCP should not be banning people for messing around with other people's forums. That is not their job and trying to arbitrate disputes about which guild infiltrated/hacked/social engineered their way into which other guilds forum is outside their scope.
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The RedPlague
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.16 17:05:00 -
[263]
Originally by: Roy Batty68
Dude can roll another character just like all the others who've been banned for less.
Ginger Magician ... is that you
Cheers,
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El'Tar
Caldari
Heretic Militia
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Posted - 2008.07.16 19:48:00 -
[264]
he undermineded the ccp peeps usin illegal ways, wjho cares if he maded ccp etc better, at end of the day he did summit ilegal
________________________________________________
MY BIG BROTHER BEING JESUS CHRIST IN HIS BATTLEWAGON OF DOOM
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ceyriot
Entropians on Vacation
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Posted - 2008.07.16 20:28:00 -
[265]
FREE HAT!
Wait...FREE KUG!
Faction Store - Killboard |
Dihania
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.17 08:57:00 -
[266]
Kug gets banned, yet CCP employee does not get fired. Bunch of preacks.
FREE KUG !
[hr]
Sniggwaffe is recruiting
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Al Kickaurazz
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.07.18 18:50:00 -
[267]
He was unjustly banned. He only hacked the forums to get proof to post on EVE forums for the players to see AFTER he tried telling CCP and they blew him off!
He exposed what is most likely the greatest scandal in eve so far
UNBAN KUGUTSUMEN!
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sesanti
Minmatar
Universal Exports
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.07.18 19:48:00 -
[268]
I think you are all out place, the ASM forum is not the place to discuss banning, let alone request CCP bans or unbans any player at all.
What's next? Ask to have the result of petitions reconsidered, right here?
_______________________________________________
The ShadowMaster -
<I am a guy... never mind the portrait> |
Logain Alseen
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Posted - 2008.07.29 01:49:00 -
[269]
something needs to happen
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Kira Novia
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Posted - 2008.07.29 03:36:00 -
[270]
Ah what the hell.
/Signed.
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