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Grismar
The Establishment
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Posted - 2008.06.13 11:20:00 -
[1]
With so many ideas being posted and support for them mounting, I can see how the current approach of these ideas by CSM is not going to work. Some of the more popular ideas are discussed by the CSM in meeting and then either thrown out or supported. But since a lot of them actually end up getting support (they're good ideas after all), the CSM risks ending up with a list the size of the Features and Ideas forum that won't be of any use to CCP. Perhaps the CSM had better start thinking about ways to prioritize or generalize over this mess... |
Grismar
The Establishment
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Posted - 2008.06.13 11:20:00 -
[2]
With so many ideas being posted and support for them mounting, I can see how the current approach of these ideas by CSM is not going to work. Some of the more popular ideas are discussed by the CSM in meeting and then either thrown out or supported. But since a lot of them actually end up getting support (they're good ideas after all), the CSM risks ending up with a list the size of the Features and Ideas forum that won't be of any use to CCP. Perhaps the CSM had better start thinking about ways to prioritize or generalize over this mess...
Your EVE IGB home: EVE Wiki, Explorer, Navigator |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.06.13 13:31:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Grismar
With so many ideas being posted and support for them mounting, I can see how the current approach of these ideas by CSM is not going to work. Some of the more popular ideas are discussed by the CSM in meeting and then either thrown out or supported. But since a lot of them actually end up getting support (they're good ideas after all), the CSM risks ending up with a list the size of the Features and Ideas forum that won't be of any use to CCP. Perhaps the CSM had better start thinking about ways to prioritize or generalize over this mess...
What we really need are some kind of forum management tools I think. Once an Issue thread has gotten CSM advocacy and been raised at the council it could do with being locked or moved to some kind of archive sub forum. It would also be nice to be able to see visually from the index which threads have been supported. But these forum-wish lists are already on our agenda and Dierdra Vaal composed a letter full of things we'd like to see done in this respect, while Ank has advocated a specific ISSUE around the problems with the current forum software. Just have to hope CCP forum programmers can be convinced to work on this stuff really.
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MahFreightah
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Posted - 2008.06.13 14:51:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
What we really need are some kind of forum muting tools I think.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:23:00 -
[5]
Originally by: MahFreightah
Originally by: Jade Constantine
What we really need are some kind of forum muting tools I think.
If they're used like Jade said - to push off items that have been dealt with - then they're not prone to that kind of abuse. Nobody's opposed to getting threads that have been passed out of the way of new stuff.
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Fix the forums! |
Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: MahFreightah
Originally by: Jade Constantine
What we really need are some kind of forum muting tools I think.
If they're used like Jade said - to push off items that have been dealt with - then they're not prone to that kind of abuse. Nobody's opposed to getting threads that have been passed out of the way of new stuff.
Ah no, they can be too easily abused. |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2008.06.13 19:18:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Scagga Laebetrovo on 13/06/2008 19:18:25
One should remember that the 'popular' idea is not necessarily the 'good' idea, and vice versa.
However you have a point that a way of 'marking out' good ideas could have a use to sort through the deluge. |
The PitBoss
Selectus Pravus Lupus
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Posted - 2008.06.14 05:31:00 -
[8]
o/ grismar
Thanks,
PB
Siggys and Banners by: Kalen Vox |
Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.14 19:19:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Arithron on 14/06/2008 19:19:56
There are a lot of good ideas, but many fail the 'benefit the majority of Eve Players' requirement. Unfortunately, these also make it through meetings. A firmer application of requirements rather than a focus on getting as many ideas to CCP as possible (whilst ignoring requirements/discussion and unclear explanation of the actual issue).
When good ideas that met the requirements are voted on, the CSM can be said to be being effective. Simply by taking a lot of issues to CCP won't meet this criteria.
take care,
Bruce Hansen
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.14 19:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Arithron
Edited by: Arithron on 14/06/2008 19:19:56
There are a lot of good ideas, but many fail the 'benefit the majority of Eve Players' requirement. Unfortunately, these also make it through meetings. A firmer application of requirements rather than a focus on getting as many ideas to CCP as possible (whilst ignoring requirements/discussion and unclear explanation of the actual issue).
When good ideas that met the requirements are voted on, the CSM can be said to be being effective. Simply by taking a lot of issues to CCP won't meet this criteria.
take care,
Bruce Hansen
This requirement cannot conceivably be that each individual issue must benefit the majority of Eve players, because I can only think of about three issues that actually would(UI fixes, lag fixes, and subscription fee reductions), and two of those aren't topics the CSM can reasonably bring up. This game is way too fractured to have a majority interest in much of anything. If I'm not mistaken, it was a requirement that the CSM process as a whole should benefit the majority of players, which is a completely different requirement.
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Fix the forums! |
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Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.14 19:46:00 -
[11]
It's pretty evident from the documents really;
The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the ôgreatest good for the greater player baseö.
and...
The key question that council members must consider before casting their vote is whether or not the issue at hand has the potential to improve or otherwise benefit the entire EVE society, and not just a select group within the communitythat was successful in bringing attention to their unique case.
It's also pretty clear that representatives must;
Engage the populace on all issue debates and discussions
and
Candidates are expected to be active on the CSM forums and participate in the discussion of topics.
and
This requires active engagement with the player community
Active discussion and engagement on issues seems to have slipped past the majority of representatives!
Take care,
Bruce Hansen
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Exodus Alpha
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.06.15 23:37:00 -
[12]
o/ Grismar
Hey, fix your site's databases already, mkay?
That's all. 
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Merroki
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Posted - 2008.06.16 19:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
This requirement cannot conceivably be that each individual issue must benefit the majority of Eve players
If you must be nitpicky, 'benefit the majority of Eve Players' can probably be described better as 'provides appreciable benefit, and does not benefit the minority at the expense of the majority'
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