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New missile fix...Destroying the game?

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McFly	Posted - 2004.05.12 06:41:00 - [31] Originally by: Xavier Perez If they'll just buff up lasers a small notch I'll be happy. From what I remember they nerf'd lasers with the Castor patch. So, I don't see them getting an upgrade IMO.
Vaco	Posted - 2004.05.12 07:27:00 - [32] My question. Out side of e/w what will be the point of going into combat with anything other than a bs? Although I have not tried it yet, a group of figates can take down a bs, I am guessing using heavies. So now they are dealing by far less damage. What good will this do other than making the game a race to get into a battle ship? I agree that a frigate should not be able to use massive torps and cruise missiles, but doing this just drives the wedge between the ship classes in deeper. Granted shiva will bring some new things which are supposed to help close the gap. Now frigates and cruisers in battle are really going to be pointless, unless going up against other criusers and frigs. Even then the side that has the most cruiser power, to an extent, will win. I am for this as long as shiva is really good at filling the ship class gap, because this is only making it bigger.
Cairo	Posted - 2004.05.12 07:40:00 - [33] Edited by: Cairo on 12/05/2004 07:49:34 Edited by: Cairo on 12/05/2004 07:42:35 Vaco, Even with the missile changes I'd take a group of skilled (all necessary skills at level 5) frigate pilots with a mix of EW and missile boats against a 'newbie battleship captain' any day of the week. Why? 1) Low cost of ships and equipment (no big material losses) 2) By far faster warping and sub-light speeds (the battleship HAS to give up firepower to fit smaller weapons in order to counter frigates, or face the fact that his big weapons won't hit) 3) Multiple pilots concentrating on one target rather than one pilot concentrating on multiple targets To me your post sounded like only ships matter.. So I'm pointing out that the pilots behind those ships matter too :) Plus, 1-on-1 between a frigate and a battleship is not a good comparison.. make it 20-on-1, and the frigate fleet will still cost a fraction of the battleship's price. Now then, having made that point I do have to note that this will work only to a certain extend due to the fact that having a fleet of 50 frigates is a logistical nightmare. At some point you WILL want to start mixing different ship classes to keep the fleet manageable AND maintain lethality level. What I'm NOT saying is that a BS-only fleet won't or can't be succesfull; hell, it can be VERY succesfull. It has the kind of staying power frigates don't have, and when your fleet has multiple battleships you can have a variety of load-outs for countering different threats. You can have missile battleships, long-range turret ships, drone carriers, support ships and what not, just like in a frigate fleet - but with tons of more staying power. That fleet's just going to be hugely expensive, and obviously you face public humiliation if that fleet loses out to a 'lesser' force that fights smarter (say, m0o :) ).
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.05.12 07:45:00 - [34] Originally by: Reiisha My guess these are 2 alts from the same account, belonging to either an Old Detroit member or one of similar corps. Get over it, this change has been due since early beta. Frigates were never meant to be able to fire weapons above their capacity. Have you ever seen a rifter with 3 1400's (active ofc) fitted? Have you ever seen a punisher flying around with tachyon lasers? It's the same with missiles. Lights are for frigs, heavies for cruisers, and cruise/torps for bs. They are one of the essential changes to make mixed fleets, and therefore fleets with newer players like you, viable. It doesn't destroy the game, it lifts it to a higher level, where everyone matters, and not just those who drive sieged up and tanked ravens (or any other bs, but you get my point). I, too, have enjoyed the pleasure of a kestrel with cruise missiles, but it was just too powerful when compared to others frigates. Frigates should NOT be 10 times more powerful than other frigates by themselves. Cruisers should do more damage then frigates, and battleships more than cruisers, it's just natural. I can already hear the flames comming from people who didn't read this reply, and i won't bother to read them anyway, as they should stop whining whenever the devs take away their precious highway ganking-at-low-cost way of life, aswell as all those logical impossibilities in every other area of EVE. This is also a huge step into making more cruisers than the BB viable for combat. And, probably the most important, it broadens the market significantly, since the demand for ships will now consist of more than multiple copies of 9 bpo's (kestrel, caracal, blackbird, scorpion, raven, megathron, armageddon, apocalypse, tempest), which, as far as i can tell, make up more than half of the markets available 70 ship type bpo's. (im exlcuding interceptors here, which generally favor the Crow, howeverm with these changes, also that one will be balanced). Come to think of it, the market consequences of this seemingly smal change are quite large, if you take into account the decreased cost to make missiles and decreased volumes of the same. I'm looking forward to more strokes of genious by CCP I so agree it hurts. I seriously hope TomB and Eight will keep on going strong with their current efforts to bring balance to the force. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Ahlaia	Posted - 2004.05.12 07:55:00 - [35] Edited by: Ahlaia on 12/05/2004 07:57:37 best i have to say to CCP atm is, well sorry, but: **** YOU CCP! with the speed of missiles and the time it takes to launch another... X_X edit: not to mention minmatars!!!
Cairo	Posted - 2004.05.12 07:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Ahlaia best i have to say to CCP atm is, well sorry, but: **** YOU CCP! I didn't know the word 'love' was on the filter list... Plus, you forgot "I" from the beginning of that comment - as in, "I LOVE YOU CCP!" :)
Severus Trajan	Posted - 2004.05.12 08:04:00 - [37] Originally by: Ahlaia Edited by: Ahlaia on 12/05/2004 07:57:37 best i have to say to CCP atm is, well sorry, but: **** YOU CCP! with the speed of missiles and the time it takes to launch another You DID read the entire post about the missile speed etc getting updates as well, I hope?
Jowen Datloran	Posted - 2004.05.12 08:08:00 - [38] Great changes. And wasn't people crying a few days ago that with the comming changes to tracking and wrecking shots only frigates would be the only viable PvP ships? ---------------- What's a rumor on page one is a fact on page two
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.05.12 08:09:00 - [39] Use the balance thread that is already created for the purpose of discussion. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Wren	Posted - 2004.05.12 08:10:00 - [40] Make us :P --------------------------------------------------
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.05.12 08:17:00 - [41] No, seriously, everything being said here has been said on the thread in Ships & Modules. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Wren	Posted - 2004.05.12 08:35:00 - [42] I know, I just want Reiisha to see my not so subtle flirting. --------------------------------------------------
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.05.12 08:36:00 - [43] Never let is be said that JC ever let forum rules get in the way of someone else scoring with a chick. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Nemesiss	Posted - 2004.05.12 08:46:00 - [44] Edited by: Nemesiss on 12/05/2004 08:49:51 Edited by: Nemesiss on 12/05/2004 08:48:29 Originally by: Uxtor I have trained and trained to use good missiles on my cruiser and now all that training was wasted when the new expansion will come.. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadid=79439&page=1 Read this..Im glad a new CM game comes soon cause i wont play Eve when this comes.. Stop whining and play the game as it is....CCP are only forcing people to find new ways this game can be played. Why are people complaining all the time when CCP make new steps or changes to the gamebalance....people are soooo conservative when new things arrives or things are changed...wait and try before you complain about it. This game can be played in many ways, find your own and get used to changes
Jequan	Posted - 2004.05.12 08:54:00 - [45] I think this is right. With good skills using missiles on a BS will be better. Sure you can't use Cruise missiles on your kestrel now but think about it: It'S just wrong being able to. The increased speed and lowered cost make them more viable in PvP since it's a common sight that people just warp out when they see a sh*tload of missiles are about to hit their ship. Raven here i come!
ClarCE	Posted - 2004.05.12 08:55:00 - [46] I think this post is more a winge from someone in a n00b corp, who aint gonna get to gank indies in 1.0 no more Trainings not wasted, some steps: 1.) Join a proper corp and play the game 2.) As Josh said in another post, train turrets 3.) Train for a Cruiser 4.) Everyone is put in the same position as you, are they all going to leave? I think not! --'The Way is Shut'-- ----------------------- Jenny...Get to the Chopper---Stick Around -----------------------
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.05.12 08:57:00 - [47] Even with moderate skills, an Incursus with light ion blasters outdamages a Kestrel with cruise overtime, yes? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Randuin MaraL	Posted - 2004.05.12 09:00:00 - [48] Originally by: Shia Dai Uxtor, Can I have your stuff? Shia Do not even bother, Shia, it would not be that much ____________________________________________________ Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die. MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner
TheNecromancer	Posted - 2004.05.12 09:07:00 - [49] WHAT ??????????????? wount I be able to use torpedoes on my cruise any more ???? I just bought a very expensive BP...... ??????? or am I wrong ?
Varia	Posted - 2004.05.12 09:34:00 - [50] The only comment I wish to make for the poor 1.0 frigate pirates is, Har har, Now play like real pirates. Women that strive to equal men lack ambition.
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.05.12 09:37:00 - [51] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Even with moderate skills, an Incursus with light ion blasters outdamages a Kestrel with cruise overtime, yes? You know better, or atleast you should, DOT doesn't matter when your first shot kills any and all opposition. And that incursus would have a 500m optimal, I hope I do not have to explain what kind of disadvantage that is. Light missiles will still do a lot of damage at great ranges, but instead of doing it in one shot they too will take multiple shots to do their damage. And I'm not going naer that 25 page long whine, with a couple of people that know what they're talking about ( and actually care about balance and not their own prefered setup ) banging their head against a diamond wall. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.05.12 09:39:00 - [52] Originally by: TheNecromancer WHAT ??????????????? wount I be able to use torpedoes on my cruise any more ???? I just bought a very expensive BP...... ??????? or am I wrong ? Oh yeah great reasoning for balance, I own a 425 blueprint and a frigate since I bought that blueprint I should be able to fit those guns on my frigate? no? You read it right, cruise missiles and torps will become BS only weapons, so go out and buy a heavy missile blueprint. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.05.12 09:39:00 - [53] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Joshua Calvert Even with moderate skills, an Incursus with light ion blasters outdamages a Kestrel with cruise overtime, yes? You know better, or atleast you should, DOT doesn't matter when your first shot kills any and all opposition. I was trying to indicate that people should get used to being in a fight longer than it takes to warp-in, f1, f2, f3, f4, wait 10 seconds and warp out LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Cairo	Posted - 2004.05.12 09:42:00 - [54] Originally by: TheNecromancer wount I be able to use torpedoes on my cruise any more ???? That's not what they're saying. Siege launchers will be able to launch torpedoes, and you CAN fit a siege launcher into a cruiser (not much else though, obviously, since siege launchers are battleship -class weaponry). One siege launcher 1 requires 1000 powergrid and something like 80 CPU.
TheNecromancer	Posted - 2004.05.12 09:50:00 - [55] this is just what happend in Earth and Beyond where I come from..they also started to nerff stuff...and people left..... I bet 1000 isk..that when I reach Battleship..they are nerffing stuff so that battleship cant use certain stuff..but only titans can..... I WANT A REFUND OF MY BLUEPRINT FOR TORPEDOES...NOW!!!
Cairo	Posted - 2004.05.12 09:56:00 - [56] Originally by: TheNecromancer this is just what happend in Earth and Beyond where I come from..they also started to nerff stuff...and people left..... This is not the first time CCP has fixed imbalances in the game. No mass exodus of people has resulted before, and I honestly doubt that'll happen this time either. It WOULD be a sad thing if it did - not because of the lost playerbase (although that is a concern for CCP since they're out to make money on this), but because it would show that a large portion of the playerbase were in-it-to-min-max-everything and / OR ganker alt accounts :/
TheNecromancer	Posted - 2004.05.12 10:09:00 - [57] Well..when it happend for EB.....each time they nerffed something..people left..... Face it...EB closed by there was to few player who played it... almost no players like to get more weak...no matter why...called it what you like.."game balance"..I call it nerffing
sableye	Posted - 2004.05.12 10:33:00 - [58] I looked forward to using cruise missles on my kestral as much as the next guy/gal but after just completing hevay missles not long ago you realise even with just heavy missles the kestral is a vastly overpowered ship for a frigate, probably better than alot of cruisers when you take into account speed and manaurovability, light missles are not so bad anyway sure they do 3 times less damage than heavy's but still more damage than frigate turrets. I think it might be agood idea to let cruisers use cruise missles, but heavies should probably be ok, heavies still deal a fair amount of damage and fromt he looks of things heavies will be brought closer to cruise missles. I do feel sorry for those that have spent a while training skills to get cruise though i was just about to invest time myself after I got battleship level 2, but I think I'll hold off see what all the changes will be first, maybe it'll mean I train that rockets skill past level 1.
TheNecromancer	Posted - 2004.05.12 10:40:00 - [59] well..I have just completed my training for the cruiser and torpedoes...it took me around 8 days..and when I think about that my time here is around 30 days..then 8 days is a lot of that time... so I am just sitting around and thinking..whats next..in the pipe of nerffing.... expensive...tells me that this AINT going to be the last thing.....
Wren	Posted - 2004.05.12 10:51:00 - [60] Hopefully, lots of things will be added, so that it will be advisable for players to specialize and chose skills to train wisely. I look forward to a time when players can take up roles for their company and clans. --------------------------------------------------

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