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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.18 05:20:00 -
[1]
Just wondering if it'd be possible to have an agreement in place that perhaps the faction fleets dont form gangs of greater than 50 pilots?
The reason I suggest this is we all know the strain CCP servers have in fleet fights. We also all know that when large fleets move to fight eachother, very often it results in 1 group waiting to take advantage of lag caused by jumping/warping in and grid load. The waits can be hours, and often result in no fight - time wasted for most people.
I realise both/all factions can raise well in excess of 50 in a gang, but do people really want to wait around for hours for an incredibly laggy fight in FW only to find after all that waiting they have popped before the grid has loaded?
Personally I think it would be great to see "soft caps" on gang sizes instigated by the most prominent FCs of both sides, and let tactics, fighting and big brass-balls be the order of the day rather than less good battles often decided by lag.
Surely more smaller gangs and less huge blobs is what CCP intended, but a lot of the responsibility for making that happen that belongs with the players. We all like PVP, so why not agree to make PVP more fun with such an agreement?
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Artemis Rose
Eleckrostatik
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Posted - 2008.06.18 05:22:00 -
[2]
First!
__________________________________________________
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat. |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.06.18 05:24:00 -
[3]
Didnt you recomend something like this some time ago?
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.06.18 05:31:00 -
[4]
no.
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Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Jmanis Catharg
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 05:37:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Pithecanthropus
no.
This.
I quite like that all the pilots are pitched in blobs in one system, leaving everything open to capture
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Furb Killer
USC Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.18 06:37:00 -
[6]
Meanwhile people are asked in gallente militia to put as many alts as possible in caldari militia and are proud they logged off to prevent being podded (Serious that warp to button is there for a reason). And you think fleets would then stay below 50 people?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.18 06:40:00 -
[7]
Quote:
your first, no you first
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.06.18 07:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
[..] We all like PVP, so why not agree to make PVP more fun with such an agreement?
A gentlemens agreement requires that theres a gentleman in the picture.
Unfornately, in wars the gentlemens are usually the first one that gets put up against the wall. Or the first casualities of war, since they are being so noble it makes friends and foes alike sick!
Originally by: Dianabolic
Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.06.18 07:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
no.
Quoting this because I'm 'down wit it'.
Originally by: Rachel Vend
... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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Corewin
Shadow Contingency
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Posted - 2008.06.18 07:17:00 -
[10]
Asides from a few corps in the Caldari Militia, most of the State Protectorate depend on their larger numbers in fleets to counter balance the lack of, experience and well fitted ships. As the OP does have a point with limiting lag and what not, it's still not nearly as fesible as it sounds.
If a militia were to form a fleet of significantly smaller numbers, it is likely to be met with a somewhat equal response. However, if you form blobs, you will get countered by blobs.
The willingness to PVP is increasing rapidly, coupled with a massive influx of new players flocking to the Caldari militia it would be nearly impossible to avoid creating such blobs in their case.
Quality verse Quantity.
Quality does seem to be winning out admirably for now... the issues being brought up now have long since been brought up before with 0.0 warfare. The best I can say is "just deal" and if you are in the Gallante militia, there really isn't much to complain about, until some of us turn that Caldari Quantity, into Quality.
glhf
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EVIL SYNNs
dearg doom
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Posted - 2008.06.18 07:30:00 -
[11]
Most important, there is no Leaders in the Factions. Thats why its fun.
There are ex 0.0 corps (I've seen CHON, EXAN, N40 a few others) myself, who ain't taking orders from anyone out with our corp.
Were here for some small scale ganking. So when intel says 100 man blob in TAMA and to X up, we laugh and avoid that system. We're not here for RANKS or VP. but a small corp just looking to make a name without the crap of 0.0
FW is the win
[/url] |
Brachis
Eve Liberation Force
Liberty.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 07:46:00 -
[12]
C FC: Hey, Gallentean, why don't we all work together to make EVE more fun by only forming low-population fleest?
G FC: You know, Caldari, that actually sounds like a good idea. Less blob, more fun!
Hours later, the Gallente FC has a 45 man fleet marauding around in lowsec, and gets ambushed by a 100-man Caldari fleet.
Oops!
NO SANE MAN WOULD PLAY BY THE RULES WHICH MAKE HIM EQUAL TO HIS ENEMY.
TAKE EVERY ADVANTAGE. GIVE NO GROUND.
You wanna know how to decrease the number of ships? Make a fleet of 20 T2 fit Battleships with synergy and circle tanks. The noobswarms of cruisers and frigates will be squashed under your feet like bugs.
"I do this with but one small ship and I am called a terrorist... you do it with an entire fleet and are called an Emperor." |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.06.18 07:49:00 -
[13]
I think the only agreement you will get is a gentleman's agreement to kick each others asses
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Vincenzo Delloro
Lux et Veritas
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Posted - 2008.06.18 08:12:00 -
[14]
We Amarr are totally behind this idea!
(When was the last time you saw 400 Amarr pilots in one place? Other than church.)
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cal nereus
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.18 08:18:00 -
[15]
If I wanted to join my alliance's fleet, and they said 'no' because they have exactly 50 in fleet at the time, I'd be pretty ****ed. If 50+ pilots want to join a gang to go shoot stuff, they can go right ahead. And if the servers can't handle it, that's CCP's issue, not the fleet's. However, I would like to note that there is an incentive to using smaller gangs anyways: mobility. Small gangs have their advantages too.
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Earning Isk
Basic Skills
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Napro
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Posted - 2008.06.18 10:05:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Napro on 18/06/2008 10:06:03
Edited by: Napro on 18/06/2008 10:05:46
All we Caldari have going for us are mumbers. I don't know why it ended up this way ( our pilots/ships are at a disadvantage in PvP ) but our numbers equal it out.
Boo this man
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HakanSherif
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 10:09:00 -
[17]
We honestly dont care much about the politics or RP part of FW. We joined to militia just becoz those stupid arrogant caldari guys came to Murethand first night of the FW and made it contested. I was opposing FW since i dont like the PvP switch in principle and how wrong I was. CCP proved that a PvP switch can work wonders and I am grateful for this expansion.
We usually dont let anyone in our fleets outside of corps so you wont see us in fleets over 30 max, our average being 14-15. But even with these numbers we will continue to engage the enemy regardless of their numbers provided we dont get a slide show in terms of latency.
Last night we attacked a Caldari fleet of 80-90 with 16 man fleet, the fight lasted over 2 hours I think and we decimated the enemy fleet at the end making them running from us leaving a battleship or 2 at every gate on their escape route resulting 45 kills for 2 losses.
Est Sularus oth Mithas |
Viqtoria
Groping Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.06.18 10:10:00 -
[18]
but hang on the gallente are vastly superior PvPers :((((
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Hot Fudge
Sweet -N- Creamy
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Posted - 2008.06.18 10:50:00 -
[19]
What would keep one faction from using seperate 50 man fleets in the same battle? I know a couple days ago, my main's fleet had about 50 in it, and another fleet of about 50 in our militia was engaging the enemy militia a couple jumps away, so we warped in and helped spank the enemy. A "gentleman's agreement" would never work.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:17:00 -
[20]
Oh man, comedy thread... this will be a tough one to beat today. :)
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:37:00 -
[21]
Well, glad to have provided a bit of comedy at least.
I still stand by the fact that it is the responsibility of FCs and those leading large gangs to consider the lag and wonder - will that 34th Rifter you just added to the 107 man gang really sway the battle?
I agree that it is difficult, ney... impossible, to get smaller gangs without the buy in from regular FCs.
My guess is the size of gangs will continue to grow while its a novelty then after a few weeks those FCs will see those numbers dwindle as people get wise to the fact signing up for a 100 man fleet = lag, waiting around a lot, and hence less fighting and less fun.
I haven't previously suggested this before (as someone asked), but will be happy to be known as a Gallente prepared to look past the terrible deeds of this heinous war and offer a solution to those Cadari scumbags to reduce their losses *cough*... 
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:41:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Esmenet on 18/06/2008 11:41:31
Originally by: Winterblink
Oh man, comedy thread... this will be a tough one to beat today. :)
Seems you can pick almost any random FW thread. 
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ollobrains2
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:41:00 -
[23]
there are no gentlemen in eve just alts, spies, blobs, hacked ts, evil doers, backstabbers and all sorts of nerferous types. Thats what eve is in a nutshell probably mroeso when it coems to the winner take all that is pvp
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ollobrains2
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:43:00 -
[24]
just keep blobbing up its what eve is about, let ccp pick thro the data and then make tweaks to reduce lag as they do now
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Delekhaji
30 ounces
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: ollobrains2
just keep blobbing up its what eve is about, let ccp pick thro the data and then make tweaks to reduce lag as they do now
What he said
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Fate Calura
Australia and New Zealand Eve Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:47:00 -
[26]
I think you guys are missing the broader issue:- The lag.
There needs to be support for the large battles that will/do occur. Until this issue is addressed "blobs" and exploiting the lag will remain be it FW or 0.0.
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ollobrains2
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:50:00 -
[27]
fate culara there is
run dialup connection and watch the lag
run a 1mb connection and u can run 80-100 with only a small amount of lag
run a 4mb + connection speed and u apparently can run up to 200 without to many issues ( as long as youre ping and transfer rates are steady) u will sned and get a steady stream of data from the eve servers and therefore have less lag.
Then there is server side lag which apparently if u setup a room with 500 ppl all networked to the eve server there in the UK there would be near no lag
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mogwai
Licentia Pro Totus
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:53:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Vincenzo Delloro
(When was the last time you saw 400 Amarr pilots in one place? Other than church.)
The day the Amarrian's launched a titan... it needed a push back into dock as the engines wouldnt start
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Steve Celeste
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Posted - 2008.06.18 12:02:00 -
[29]
Don't understand this fascination with getting a "fair fight". If you are in a fair fight, you are doing something wrong.
Isn't that true, nanofags?
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 12:17:00 -
[30]
In all seriousness, laggy combat is not a new concept in EVE. The fact that you're experiencing it in faction warfare is like discovering that fire is indeed hot.
The blob factor is also not unique to FW, this has been the order of the day for quite some time now. Small scale roaming gang action has been a fun thing to do for quite some time now for a lot of reasons, lag being only one of them.
They definitely hit the nail on the head with the whole "FW will be real EVE PVP" factor. It's great that people are getting a taste of combat who wouldn't otherwise have made the jump, not so great they have to suffer through the issues as well.
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Morrow Disca
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.18 12:30:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Winterblink
In all seriousness, laggy combat is not a new concept in EVE. The fact that you're experiencing it in faction warfare is like discovering that fire is indeed hot.
Made me laugh loudly in the office, getting funny looks now, thanks. 
My opinions are my own, they may not match the opinions of my Corp or Alliance. |
Dihania
Mucho Dolor
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Posted - 2008.06.18 12:37:00 -
[32]
no!
keep congragating. we're planning a party and we need all you FW people in one place.
and as many as possible.
.
Stuff
I need isk!Accepting donations.
Renting this sig space.
Open to take on various jobs. |
Random Gen
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Posted - 2008.06.18 15:25:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Random Gen on 18/06/2008 15:25:10
As a staunch Amarrian citizen, I'm surprised any militia can put together any fleet consisting of more than 10-15 ships together at all.
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Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 15:53:00 -
[34]
I will say Caldari seems too prone to making large blobs, but hey, given how crappy most of the caldari ships/fits are who can blame them?
The issue where you have a 100 man gallente fleed on one side of the gate and a 115 man caldari fleet on the other and neither side wants to jump through because loading lag will give an automatic win to their opponents is a pretty sad situation.
Whether the solution is CCP encouraging people to blob less or upgrading their servers or what, I'm not sure.
Last night we actually tried to get some sort of gentleman's agreement going. 115 Caldari in Deven 100 Gallente (and about 300 drones) in Fliet. Neither of us was going to jump through, so the FC's started talking about us pulling off the gate so the gallente could jump through and then we could fight in the same system. We pulled back, and the Gallente promptly fled all the way back to Villore. I still don't know what that was all about.
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DeckardIRL
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.18 16:04:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Winterblink
Oh man, comedy thread... this will be a tough one to beat today. :)
This ^^
This is war and we all have the same problem...
Deck
Whiskey For CAOD at its best |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.18 16:37:00 -
[36]
There have been Gentlemen's agreements before in some conflicts in Eve. They invariably lead to bad blood as at some point one side is seen by the other to be breaking the spirit of the agreement (whether they do or not) and hysteria ensues.
---
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DAalt
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Posted - 2008.06.18 16:49:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ulstan
Last night we actually tried to get some sort of gentleman's agreement going. 115 Caldari in Deven 100 Gallente (and about 300 drones) in Fliet. Neither of us was going to jump through, so the FC's started talking about us pulling off the gate so the gallente could jump through and then we could fight in the same system. We pulled back, and the Gallente promptly fled all the way back to Villore. I still don't know what that was all about.
Its because the Gallente FC was a coward. I was in that fleet and it was rediculous. He ran back to villore and then the fleet disbanded. He actually encouraged us to deploy our drones to lag out the caldari if they jumped in.
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An Anarchyyt
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.18 16:57:00 -
[38]
Originally by: DAalt
Its because the Gallente FC was a coward. I was in that fleet and it was rediculous. He ran back to villore and then the fleet disbanded. He actually encouraged us to deploy our drones to lag out the caldari if they jumped in.
Name and shame.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Val Erian
Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.18 17:04:00 -
[39]
No, he was not a coward....he was a prudent FC with a track record of winning battles in FW to date.
BTW, posting with your alt is pretty brave.
It wsn't clear why the Caldari fleet were pulling back. Also our fleet was dropping numbers whilst the Caldari were rising.
its prudent decisions that have led to a 2:1 kill ratio for the Gallente over Caldari.
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DAalt
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Posted - 2008.06.18 17:09:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Val Erian
Edited by: Val Erian on 18/06/2008 17:05:42
No, he was not a coward....he was a prudent FC with a track record of winning battles in FW to date.
when your waiting at a gate for an opposing fleet to jump in you deploy drones.....
He legitely said something to the effect of deploy drones guys so they lag out on jumpin and we kill lots of them before they load the grid.
Name is Zero Threat. |
Lucy'Lastic
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Posted - 2008.06.18 17:10:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Val Erian
Edited by: Val Erian on 18/06/2008 17:05:42
It wsn't clear why the Caldari fleet were pulling back. Also our fleet was dropping numbers whilst the Caldari were rising.
I heard that Gallente fleet took over an hour to assemble and people started leaving because the FC wanted more numbers even when he had 80 in fleet.
c/d
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