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Jay Gatsby
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Posted - 2004.05.13 14:02:00 -
[1]
Is there any sensible reason as to why we don't have any of these available?
There are several ship-types I fly that have no missile-launcher slots on them at all, so fitting defenders is out of the question. Smartbombs are not a very practical solution to the anti-missile problem, although they are what I make do with at the moment.
So how about some innovation from the defense industries, and make available to us some A-M laser, projectile and hybrid turrets?
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Borsig Rheinmetall
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Posted - 2004.05.13 14:44:00 -
[2]
There have been roumors of point defense systems from what I have heard.. Only rumors though.
I fail to see anything smaller than a cruiser carrying these.. If they are ever impliemtned. Point defense would probably be something smiliar to the US Navy Phalanx missile defense system. If you dont know what this is, see the movie "Sum Of All Fears". It's a rather effective device, that fires depleted uranium shells at inbound fast movers, using a rate of fire that boggles the mind.
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Miso
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Posted - 2004.05.13 14:51:00 -
[3]
A deployable decoy fired from a turret might be a nice option and would require no new turret type, just new type of ammo. Once fired it draws a missile away from the target ship based on skill levels and other dev type crap that I can't be bothered to think about as I'm an idea's person not a do-er 
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Dead
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Jay Gatsby
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Posted - 2004.05.13 15:04:00 -
[4]
I know what you mean about being an "ideas-person" Miso.
Alternatives to A-M gunnery: how about good old-fashioned chaff launchers that offer the chance of breaking a missile's target-lock on you, or A-M ECM that achieves the same thing.
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John McCreedy
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Posted - 2004.05.13 15:16:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Miso
A deployable decoy fired from a turret might be a nice option and would require no new turret type, just new type of ammo. Once fired it draws a missile away from the target ship based on skill levels and other dev type crap that I can't be bothered to think about as I'm an idea's person not a do-er
CHAFs, now there's an idea...
Make a difference
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Rekiem
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Posted - 2004.05.13 16:29:00 -
[6]
They should make some defender drones! When they orbit around your ship, they destroy incoming missiles. This would help the ships with no launcher hardpoint. They should also boost the speed on defenders and allow them to be launched even when theres no incoming missiles.
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Marcennis
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Posted - 2004.05.13 16:59:00 -
[7]
Any of these ideas would be better than what we have now ... chaffs & flares for starters. ECM modules that jams missiles target lock, something like an EMP smartbomb with smaller cap needs since it doesn't blow up a missile, just confuses it for a moment. Sometimes, all you need is a bit of breathing room.
Drone missile defense would rock too :D
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Mining & Transport - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
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Vexed
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Posted - 2004.05.13 17:08:00 -
[8]
Prepare for the wrath of Raven pilots, I know that not being able to fit launchers on certain ships is tough but making something like this will make missiles very ineffective whilst being the most expensive ammo type and the fact that any DOT has to factor in the flight time of the missile to target. I'm not in favour or against, just giving a heads up, I'm happy with my Apoc 
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.05.13 17:26:00 -
[9]
Modify ECM burst modules for it!
They're pretty useless as-is....have them confuse say 15% of missiles and subtract 15% from drones hitting you. Up to 20% on the named ones.
As for a point defence gun module, I'd be temped to make them BS-only, and fairly slow firing. So they're good for fending off pesky frigates and missiles fired from long range, but not if you become the focus of a fleet action or a cruiser swarm.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Baun
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Posted - 2004.05.13 17:57:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Is there any sensible reason as to why we don't have any of these available?
Yes, because missles can already be stopped in a number of ways:
1. Defenders
2. Smartbombs
3. Speed
4. Warping away
5. Colliding with other objects
And because missles:
1. Have no instant damage
2. Already have a lower DPS than turrets
In short there are no ways to stop turrets than do not also stop missles (i.e speed) but there are may ways to stop missles that also stop turrets (defenders, smartbombs, warping away, other objects).
Quote:
There are several ship-types I fly that have no missile-launcher slots on them at all, so fitting defenders is out of the question. Smartbombs are not a very practical solution to the anti-missile problem, although they are what I make do with at the moment.
What anti-missle problem? Missles are already UNDER powered. On cruisers come might argue that cruise missles are far too good, but that is already being changed.
All in all though i don't have a problem with yet another missle defense being added as long as the number of missle defenses and turret defenses are balanced. This means that if you get your anti-missle turrets I want at least 5 more ways that I an avoid being hit by turret fire to balance it out.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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John McCreedy
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Posted - 2004.05.13 18:00:00 -
[11]
I think Miso has hit upon the best idea. Point Defence Turrets and Defender Drones would take a lot of balancing to get right because if not balanced correctly they would render Missile Boats useless.
CHAF on the other hand could have a percentage of drawing a missile towards it. I feel this would be easier to balance than Turrets or Drones.
Make a difference
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CoolSprog
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Posted - 2004.05.13 19:49:00 -
[12]
lol just wait for the missile nerf to hit, then we'll need turrets to enhance our missiles forget anti-missile turrets
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Man'corr
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Posted - 2004.05.13 20:12:00 -
[13]
yer smartbombs right, they get more and more useless the faster missles get.
largs sbs have always been at 5 klicks, and missles have what? quadrupled in speed and more, yet the smartbomb range stays the same, making it alot harder to get em off right.
i certainly dont want bigger smartbombs, as it would then start to get mind-boggling, but i certainly would like a way to get something as a defense, thats not 90% useless when lags there..............on a maller, as they cant use defenders, and faster missles also mean less chance to warp away.
All of above post was formulated wth 100% honesty and 100% sarcasm. Now i only need to get drunk
The 3rd turret is the Malediction is missing. Plz make as much noise as possible so that CCP gets us a remedy for that, possibly before X-Mas this year. |
Drusilla
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Posted - 2004.05.13 20:31:00 -
[14]
I think I know how anti-missile turrets are already do-able in game. I have read about it here before, though I leave it to others to test it.
Fit your ship with an auto-targeter. It automatically adds +2 to yoru max locked targets AND autmatically locks anything within 10KM of you - and that, as I have had said to me, INCLUDES MISSILES. At that point you can shoot a turret at them just like anything else. Use a powerful but short ranged, fast tracking gun for this task.
The manual method would be as follows:
Click a gun wihtout having something targeted and you get a crosshairs on your screen. Point it at the missile and click, and it will begin locking it in order to fire.
With the new changes coming that might make missiles a LOT faster this will be a lot harder to pull off, though.
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Synapse
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Posted - 2004.05.13 20:54:00 -
[15]
^^^^ no longer works. unless they've changed it. ^^^^^
- + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + -
In a future where freedom is outlawed,
outlaws will become heros |
Damajink
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Posted - 2004.05.13 22:19:00 -
[16]
Missiles are already poor enough, without another way of people being made invulnerable to them. I agree with Baun, let's have some sort of anti-turret defence instead of yet ANOTHER anti-missile defence.
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ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.05.14 00:03:00 -
[17]
Just give missiles sensor strengths, and then you can use ECCM...
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Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000 
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.05.14 01:58:00 -
[18]
I'd just be happy if they added a skill that increased smartbomb range. Large smartbombs, for their fitting/cap reqs, should hit well past 5k.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Varia
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Posted - 2004.05.14 12:51:00 -
[19]
It takes a hell of a lot of cap/regen but 3-4 smartbombs activated at 1-2 seconds apart can deal with most incomming missiles (Energy Pulse Weapons level 4).
Worked very well with the npc missiles storms after castor.
Women that strive to equal men lack ambition. |
Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2004.05.14 13:07:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Miso
A deployable decoy fired from a turret might be a nice option and would require no new turret type, just new type of ammo. Once fired it draws a missile away from the target ship based on skill levels and other dev type crap
I'm w/ Miso - this is a great idea!
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Man'corr
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Posted - 2004.05.14 13:27:00 -
[21]
ultimate anti turret defense?
EW............
you can still fire FOFs though. ok you lose out on 20% of yer DoT, but alot better than nothing.
All of above post was formulated wth 100% honesty and 100% sarcasm. Now i only need to get drunk
The 3rd turret is the Malediction is missing. Plz make as much noise as possible so that CCP gets us a remedy for that, possibly before X-Mas this year. |
Gauguin
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Posted - 2004.05.14 20:11:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Gauguin on 14/05/2004 20:16:02
Perhaps all that is needed is to create a specific anti-missile module based on a smartbomb:
Instead of trying to time the arrival of the missile within the AOE of you smartbomb (which we all know is a crapshoot bacause of lag, etc.), have it function like reactive armor*. Clicking on the smartbomb icon creates the reactive field around the ship which (field) detonates at the impact of an incoming missile, damaging anything within a set range (same as a smartbomb would) and completely destroying that one missile that impacted without that one missile doing any damage to the ship.
The 'charging' delay could be tweaked to not have this device 100% efficient, as well as maybe have some of the damage from the destroyed missile leak through to the ship.
*(As used on current armored vehicles like tanks, reactive armor's protective mechanism involves producing an explosion when it is impacted by a weapon, actively "pushing back" against it. This is particularly effective against shaped charge. A shaped charge is an explosive charge shaped to focus the released energy.)
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KingsGambit
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Posted - 2004.05.14 20:15:00 -
[23]
Perhaps the reason such a turret doesn't exist is because it isn't meant to be, and for good reason. There currently are missile defences in place, available to any who choose to use them...defender missiles and smartbombs. What defence is there however against turrets? None. Why should there be more ways of defending against missiles when there are already methods in place? Missiles are expensive, slow, powerful and can be defended against. Turrets are cheaper to fire, closer range, not as damaging, but shots land instantly, and there's no defense against them.
A Thorax for example, already has plenty of drone space and turret points. It's only current weakness is that it doesn't have missile defense. An anti missile turret would render this particular ship, and many others besides, closer to bring invinvible. All the ships in Eve have strengths and weaknesses. Rather than allow players to make themselves invincible, CCP would rather player's use tactics, common sense, forethought, hindsight and good advice to help enhance their ships strengths, and exploit their opponents weaknesses. A Thorax is tough up-close, but not so tough at range. A Caracal is tough at range, but not so tough up-close. Strengths and weaknesses.
Why not ask the devs to make an invulnerability field that gives 100% immunity to all damage for no energy while you're at it?
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BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals |
Gauguin
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Posted - 2004.05.14 20:31:00 -
[24]
Kings Gambit, pretty much everything you say is true, but you are forgetting two things:
1. Missiles have a nasty effect you slowing down the target ship and throwing it off course. It is almost impossible to warp out while being hit by missiles. This extra benefit has to be put on the scales when comparing missiles to turrets.
2. Lag: it's a fact of internet gaming, and it aint going away anythime soon. Neither turrets nor missiles are affected by lag in the same way that smartbombs are. Something has to be done to those modules to mitigate the lag factor.
Maybe all is needed is some aiming aid, like a sphere drawn in the 3-d radar signifying the area of effect, but lag would still be a large factor.
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RamJet
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Posted - 2004.05.15 06:48:00 -
[25]
Tracking disrupters and ECM are fairly efective anti turret modules
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Xtro 2
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Posted - 2004.05.15 10:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jay Gatsby
Is there any sensible reason as to why we don't have any of these available?
There are several ship-types I fly that have no missile-launcher slots on them at all, so fitting defenders is out of the question. Smartbombs are not a very practical solution to the anti-missile problem, although they are what I make do with at the moment.
So how about some innovation from the defense industries, and make available to us some A-M laser, projectile and hybrid turrets?
If you plan on being attacked by a large scale missile user, although it sounsd insane, with a ship capable of using missiles itsself (not handy for you but this is an example of a tactic/system akin to proposed chaff's) you can actually lay a minefiald around yourself, it doesnt hurt you, but incoming objects impact on them (missiles in other words or close range frigates) whihc is handy except you cant move, but who cares if they cant hit you. Plus you can stll warp away form inside your mined coccoon, seeing as mines are nearly useless atm, just intorduce a chaff/dummy mine launcher that uses a highslot and doesnt need launcher/turret same as smartbombs/cap drains etc, this would take little work as they would basically work the same as mines which are already a part of the game.
note: some already do something like this by dumping tons of empty cans around their ship when stationary.
Has 2 benefits, 1) turret users can in effect "DIG IN" and blockad themselves, but cannot move as a result, which is fine as their turrets can still fire back np, and 2) still allows that user to warp away (provided they aint jammed of course)
All that would be required is a option on the system to detonate the chaff/mines after use.
Simple.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Rekiem
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Posted - 2004.05.15 13:15:00 -
[27]
Quote:
If you plan on being attacked by a large scale missile user, although it sounsd insane, with a ship capable of using missiles itsself (not handy for you but this is an example of a tactic/system akin to proposed chaff's) you can actually lay a minefiald around yourself, it doesnt hurt you, but incoming objects impact on them (missiles in other words or close range frigates) whihc is handy except you cant move, but who cares if they cant hit you. Plus you can stll warp away form inside your mined coccoon, seeing as mines are nearly useless atm, just intorduce a chaff/dummy mine launcher that uses a highslot and doesnt need launcher/turret same as smartbombs/cap drains etc, this would take little work as they would basically work the same as mines which are already a part of the game.
note: some already do something like this by dumping tons of empty cans around their ship when stationary.
Has 2 benefits, 1) turret users can in effect "DIG IN" and blockad themselves, but cannot move as a result, which is fine as their turrets can still fire back np, and 2) still allows that user to warp away (provided they aint jammed of course)
All that would be required is a option on the system to detonate the chaff/mines after use.
Simple.
lol
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Sochin
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Posted - 2004.05.15 20:13:00 -
[28]
A rapid-fire anti-missile minigun type weapon would be awesome. It locks, tracks and fires on incoming missiles based on skills.
"Anti-Missile turret" skill allows use of the turret, and adds an accuracy bonus per level, allowing the turret to shoot down missiles faster. These turrets would use a special tiny ammunition that you would need a huge amount of.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Man'corr
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Posted - 2004.05.16 01:27:00 -
[29]
yer make you could make it the size of frig ammo, but rather each "unit" of ammo represents five bullets, which would also represent the huge number of anti missle fire from the gun nicely. maybe even 10 bullets per unit, doesnt matter actually :D
All of above post was formulated wth 100% honesty and 100% sarcasm. Now i only need to get drunk
The 3rd turret is the Malediction is missing. Plz make as much noise as possible so that CCP gets us a remedy for that, possibly before X-Mas this year. |
KR SUN
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Posted - 2004.05.16 10:35:00 -
[30]
FOF turrents, just plain mirrorset from FOF missles:
- less range
- less damage
- then activated fire at closest hostile object - missle, DRONE, enemy ship.
Solution for 3 problems - defence vs missles for non missle ships, defence against drones for no-done ppl, defence against jammed radar.
I mean come on - FOF missles + defenders for laucnher usesers and nothing for the rest of us. Let them be as effective as defenders vs missles and so-so vs drones and ships, but they will take slot and fitting, provide a lot of new tactics and missles launchers has it already, so no need to balance it all:)
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