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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.20 00:47:00 -
[1]
Fly both, and I now I refuse to leave the fleet stabber. Vaga feels like a brick with crap tracking in comparison.
Lets compare the benefits of both:
What the Fleet Stabber has over the Vaga
* Less mass, more agility
* Faster aligning and warping
* Higher top speed
* 50% better tracking
* More powergrid
* 40m3 drone bay
* Extra lowslow
* Extra rigslot
* More base HP across shield/armor/hull
What the vaga has over the fleet stabber:
* EM resists
* Falloff bonus
* Slightly higher DPS (not that much accounting for extra drone DPS)
However, two of those can be countered by the fleet stabbers rigslots, and you still retain all the advantages listed.
IMO, fleet stabber > vaga
BUT, if you're talking specifically about doing up against a zealot, I'd rather be in a vaga... but thats pretty much it... if I'm going up against anything else and ESPECIALLY ceptors/frigs, I want the fleet stabber... with that tracking bonus, my god it murders small ships like nothing else
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Siddy
Gay Nationalist Association of Amamake
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Posted - 2008.06.20 00:56:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Siddy on 20/06/2008 00:57:53
no
Vagas are more accesible
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T'ey see me t'Rollin,
t'ey hatin, pa'trolli.
T'ey trying catch me writing dirty... |
Bellicose
PsyCorp
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.06.20 00:59:00 -
[3]
vaga vaga also have 60% thermal over the stabbers 20%
too lazy to resize signature clicky clicky instead |
Kizedret
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.20 01:03:00 -
[4]
no
vagas are more accessible
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Bellicose
PsyCorp
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.06.20 01:09:00 -
[5]
AND you dont get to yell VAGA VAGA when you kill ppl in a fleet stabber
and
vagas are more accessible
too lazy to resize signature clicky clicky instead |
Siddy
Gay Nationalist Association of Amamake
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Posted - 2008.06.20 01:16:00 -
[6]
i whuld fly fleet stabber over vaga only if the model whuld be changed to this
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T'ey see me t'Rollin,
t'ey hatin, pa'trolli.
T'ey trying catch me writing dirty... |
schurem
Anarchy Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.20 01:50:00 -
[7]
I have like two million loyalty points with the minmatar fleet. Looks like the faction cruisers are the only thing in their store even remotely worth getting. Cheap too :D
However, I still think EvE needs more and better tactical warning sounds.
<<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly Free Or Die Trying >>>>
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Robert Rosenberg
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.20 01:50:00 -
[8]
No,
Vagabond is more accessible.
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Viqtoria
Groping Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.06.20 03:50:00 -
[9]
I once killed a Vag in a Thorax.
 
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RougeSlave
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Posted - 2008.06.20 03:55:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Viqtoria
I once killed a Vag in a Thorax.
What the hell was a Vaga doing in a thorax? And how did it get there?
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Selia Rain
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Posted - 2008.06.20 04:04:00 -
[11]
Is "vagas are more accessible" the new fad, or is that one person+ a bunch of alts/friends?
I run missions for the RF anyways, fleet stabber is a hell of a lot cheaper than a vaga to me.
Plus, if for some reason I couldn't fly vaga, I could fly fleet stabber easily(cruiser 5 can be left at the door).
And to me, as long as it's faster, I'll fly it.
<3 my fleet scythe.
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Viqtoria
Groping Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.06.20 04:25:00 -
[12]
Originally by: RougeSlave
Originally by: Viqtoria
I once killed a Vag in a Thorax.
What the hell was a Vaga doing in a thorax? And how did it get there?
nonono i said the word vagina!1111LO!L!111
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.06.20 06:06:00 -
[13]
falloff bonus is king. . .so underestimated. . .
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GO BLUE!! |
Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
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Posted - 2008.06.20 07:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky
falloff bonus is king. . .so underestimated. . .
Yup. Because of this bonus Vaga has much better DPS in orbit (yes, taking ito account Stabber's tracking advantage), even if you have HAC at 4.
@20 km, 500-ish m/sec speed Vaga has TWICE as much damage from guns as Stabber. And with MWD on they both dont hit at all :)
Still, Stabber can compensate for that pretty well by slapping in falloff rig, having more hitpoints on everything, higher speed, extra slot, and 4 goddamn medium drones.
---
Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
Angelonico
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.06.20 09:37:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Angelonico on 20/06/2008 09:38:48
No.
Falloff bonus is clutch.
EM resistance is even more so.
Edit - the guy above me is also right about the dps increase actually being a bit higher than you'd think.
There's also no way in hell I could afford 3 polycarbs.
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.20 11:21:00 -
[16]
Well, you dont need 3 poly's. At all!
With 20% lower mass it doesnt need them, you're fine with one and you have an extra lowslot to play with. The one polycarbon fleet stabber is still faster and more agile than the vaga. You can then invest in a falloff rig and perhaps an EM resist rig.
The POINT is that the fleet stabber has more advantages over the vaga, than the vaga has advantages over the fleet stabber. You can for example easily fit a full rack of 425's on the fleet stabber, and with the tracking bonus, they track better than dual 180's on the vaga.
The only situation I can concieve where the vaga is better, is a 1v1 against a zealot. In pretty much all other situations, fleet stabber wins and by quite a long way.
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.06.20 11:46:00 -
[17]
Good point. . .now go grind some LPs in FW and bring me some!!
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GO BLUE!! |
Crux Australis
MotorSaikol LadrUNZ
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Posted - 2008.06.20 12:28:00 -
[18]
I was told to mail Lilan Khan for free F1337 Stabbers, is the offer still valid?
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Drek Grapper
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Posted - 2008.06.20 15:07:00 -
[19]
You can Armour tank the FI Stabber and it still does 2.4km/s with a 1600mmRT plate.  You have space for 2 Gyros (or 3 if u drop an EANM2), a Web and a utility mid (ECCM)
Wouldn't dare Armour tank a Vaga.
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If the Thorax was a car it would look like this |
Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.20 15:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Drek Grapper
You can Armour tank the FI Stabber and it still does 2.4km/s with a 1600mmRT plate. You have space for 2 Gyros (or 3 if u drop an EANM2), a Web and a utility mid (ECCM)
Wouldn't dare Armour tank a Vaga.
Yes, it's essentially the Fleet Issue rupture, just with a different skin.
______________________________________________
Euriti - I'll continue my nerd forum rage! |
Trojanman190
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.06.20 17:12:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Drek Grapper
Wouldn't dare Armour tank a Vaga.
For real...
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kessah
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.06.20 18:30:00 -
[22]
moar aksesib1
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Gort
Storm Guard Elite
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Posted - 2008.06.20 19:34:00 -
[23]
The other faction ships need tuning too. They all need to be a significant step up from T1, while "just" below T2, instead of barely T1+.
G
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When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
Bruce Deorum
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.20 21:25:00 -
[24]
Vaga has more DPS (due to innate HAC bonus... 20% more dps @ HAC lvl 4 ) More chance to hit or quality hits due to falloff bonus.
Vaga has more speed, due to innate cruiser bonus, it is much faster than the F.Stabber. Its much faster so accelaration is faster, top speed is faster, and speed-tank is better.
To tell u the truth tracking bonus is not that exciting, but the more drones are very useful. And 20% better aligning speed is not the end of the world, especially as the fleet sabber doesnt cry NANOFIT me...
Fleetstabber would be Ubersome, but actually its not a vaga with more slots and less rez. Its much different.
Different roles, different ships. I was at first very excited with fleet stabber, i own one, but in the end vaga has better rez, faster, more dps...
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Guillame Herschel
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.20 22:42:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Bruce Deorum
Vaga has more speed, due to innate cruiser bonus, it is much faster than the F.Stabber. Its much faster so acceleration is faster, top speed is faster, and speed-tank is better.
Except that it isn't much faster, acceleration is actually slower (look at the inertial modifier), and whatever you do to the Vaga, you can also do to the Fleet Stabber and still have one low and one rig slot leftover.
But the nail in the coffin is that there is no way the Vagabond can make up for the Fleet Stabber's having 2 million kg less mass.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.06.20 23:36:00 -
[26]
Comparing two unfitted ships is dumb.
When you fit the SFI, you will find you don't have a falloff bonus. Uh-oh, well you slap on 2 ambit rigs and now find only room for one polycarbon. So now with 2 OD/1 nano/1 poly SFI compared to 2 OD/2 poly Vaga, the vaga has about 10% more speed but a whole lot less agility, so the speeds are pretty much close together.
Now the SFIs drone bay is hooray, but remember now you are using medium drones which are a lot harder than small drones to get back into your bay when you have to gtfo and if you lose your drones it is a much bigger hit to the SFI.
Having flown both ships (only the new SFI for a few days) the statistics that matter most are: Shield effective hp, damage, speed and cap. Vaga has the advantage in hp and damage by a good margin while maintaining the speed and cap of the SFI.
Although if you only have Matar cruiser 4 and want some good vaga practice, the SFI is a perfect choice. I also have to imagine that sitting in a SFI 100km off the gate and wait for dumb intys to try to tackle you could be quite fun 
--
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Solid Trust
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.21 01:54:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Solid Trust on 21/06/2008 01:55:04
I played around with EFT to see how much better the Fleet Stabber is to the vaga and how its extra slot/rigs can overcome where the Vaga is better (like butter mentioned). This is what I came up with using all Lvl V skills and no implants...
FS / Vaga
Speed: 5,403 / 5,867
Align: 3.0 / 4.3
Eff HP: 19.3K / 23.6k
Falloff: 23 / 25.7 (+ optimal)
DPS: 401 / 451
Tracking: .149 / .110
Here are the setups:
[Vagabond]
Overdrive Injector System II x 2
Gyrostabilizer II x 2
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Large Shield Extender II x 2
Warp Disruptor II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M x 5
Heavy Missile Launcher II, CN Widows
Polycarbon Engine Housing I x 2
Warrior II 5
[Stabber Fleet Issue]
Gyrostabilizer II x2
Overdrive Injector System II x2
Nanofiber Internal Structure II x2
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II x2
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M x5
Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Projectile Ambit Extension I x2
Valkyrie II x3
Warrior II x2
The Fleet Stabber still had a good amount of free grid and cpu making me believe that maybe this ship should not be going the way of the Vaga. So I tried an armor tanking fit (dual MARs) and I ended almost perfectly using all the grid and CPU. Like someone mentioned, the Fleet Stabber really should be called the Fleet Ruppy. The Fleet Ruppy setup had a solid tank and DPS while still hitting over 3km/s.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.06.21 02:27:00 -
[28]
Good post solid trust, although I would measure effective shield HP instead of total effective hp. I don't know many vagabond/SFI pilots that would dare go into armor unless their target is going to pop any second.
I played around and got a 1600mm plate passive SFI that's somewhat interesting, it's got a lot more effective hp than the 1600 ruppie and comparable damage + a 4th med for ecm/eccm and a load more speed/agility. I'll edit and post my setup in a bit.
--
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Bruce Deorum
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.21 22:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Solid Trust
Edited by: Solid Trust on 21/06/2008 01:56:25
I played around with EFT to see how much better the Fleet Stabber is to the vaga and how its extra slot/rigs can overcome where the Vaga is better (like butter mentioned). This is what I came up with using all Lvl V skills and no implants...
---- Stat Comparision ----
FS / Vaga
Speed: 5,403 / 5,867
Align: 3.0 / 4.3
Eff HP: 19.3K / 23.6k
Falloff: 23 / 25.7 (+ optimal)
DPS: 401 / 451
Tracking: .149 / .110
The Fleet Stabber still had a good amount of free grid and cpu making me believe that maybe this ship should not be going the way of the Vaga. So I tried an armor tanking fit (dual MARs) and I ended almost perfectly using all the grid and CPU. Like someone mentioned, the Fleet Stabber really should be called the Fleet Ruppy. The Fleet Ruppy setup had a solid tank and DPS while still hitting over 3km/s.
As i Said, vaga is overall better except align speed, and tracking. Tracking for me not anything exciting, Vaga's tracking is already good enough... and align speed wont make any difference, since top speed compensates for lower inertia. (at 2 secs accelerating for example both ships will have reached same speed...)
In end vaga is superior, FStabber is very good, but as an improve platted rupture...
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