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bonder's
Knights of the Reclaimed Origin
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 03:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
just saw this on reddit
http://tinyurl.com/7zw2yxm
Advanced t2 mining crystals for 0.0 that provide a huge boost to veld mining. is doubling the modifier enough to make it worth mining trit in 0.0 again? |

Ohh Yeah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 03:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
I just watched a bunch of buy orders @ 4.60 ISK/unit get filled
I guess somebody unloaded their stockpile |

Mephistocles
Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 03:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Not sure about trit... But I am shorting MD mineral speculation/manipulation threads, because supply is going up astronomically.  |

Brock Nelson
418
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 03:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Reading the thread on Reddit, if CCP does go forward with introducing this new crystal along with others for different ore, I doubt trit would see much drop in price.
If you're a miner in null space, would you mine for Trit or Zydrine? I could see high end mineral dropping in price (especially nocxium), but not low end. Signature removed, CCP Phantom |

bonder's
Knights of the Reclaimed Origin
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 03:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Brock Nelson wrote:Reading the thread on Reddit, if CCP does go forward with introducing this new crystal along with others for different ore, I doubt trit would see much drop in price.
If you're a miner in null space, would you mine for Trit or Zydrine? I could see high end mineral dropping in price (especially nocxium), but not low end.
well they might not introduce a whole line of them, trit is pretty much the number one thing in 0.0 that you have to import in compressed forms to make building stuff viable, so i'd imagine it would drop the demand in empire for trit. |

Ohh Yeah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 03:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Here is the table of mineral values used to calculate insurance.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Manufacture_%26_Research:Materials:Ore_%26_Minerals_:Minerals
So far we've seen Zydrine go up, and this revelation would lead us to believe that Tritanium would go down. That's pretty well in line with an attempt to get mineral prices back to their base values
|

Brock Nelson
418
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Posted - 2012.03.13 03:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Either way, this will help null alliance become less dependant on highsec for raw material. Signature removed, CCP Phantom |

Dr Kanet
Hazed and Confused Bad Company Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 04:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Brock Nelson wrote:Either way, this will help null alliance become less dependant on highsec for raw material.
this mean its time to get out of the 425mm rail making game? If these changes go through will the improved crystals make it more viable to mine low ends in 0.0 over compressing in highsec and shipping to 0.0? |

bonder's
Knights of the Reclaimed Origin
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 05:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dr Kanet wrote: this mean its time to get out of the 425mm rail making game? If these changes go through will the improved crystals make it more viable to mine low ends in 0.0 over compressing in highsec and shipping to 0.0?
It would seem so, or the margin for compression and shipping would be so low it probably won't be worth it |

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
334
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 05:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
I recall maybe two years ago, though can't recall which dev or which thread, the statement was basicly, how to get more trit yeild in Null. Some of the ideas out there were, another sort of super veld and these crystals. Guess they went with the crystals. I do not recall any other minerals being part of that conversation.
Sorry I do not recall the refrence. |

Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
745
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 05:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ohh Yeah wrote: edit: Didn't CCP once say that their desired prices for minerals were something along the lines of
Trit - 2 ISK/u Pyerite - 4 ISK/u Mex - 8 ISK/u Isogen - 32 ISK/u
Except that CCP designers failed the concept of "opportunity cost". There's no way that you will ever see minerals hit those values in that ratio, because with Trit at 1/2 the price of Pyerite, miners will simply stop mining ores which yield mostly Tritanium in favor of mining ores which yield mostly Pyerite.
That's why, historically, all hi-sec ores have all been worth about the same exact value, within 20% or so of each other. If Veld was up at 105 ISK/m3 while Scordite was down at 90 ISK/m3 - people flock to mining Veld instead of Scordite, which drives Veld's value down and nobody bothers with Scordite. Within a few weeks, now Scordite is at 105 ISK/m3 and Veld is back down at 90 ISK/m3, so everyone flocks back to Scordite.
Prices as of a few minutes ago (roughly):
Veld 135 Scor 119 Pyro 169 Plag 154 Omb 81 Kern 151 Jasp 176 Hemo 197 Hedb 195, ABCs are 266 / 287 / 353.
Personally, I don't think 150 ISK/m3 for hi-sec ore is sustainable. Not unless CCP keeps the ban hammer rolling on mining bots and keeps them out of the game. At 150 ISK/m3, a hulk pilot is only making about 15M/hr solo. If it gets much higher then that in hi-sec, then I think more and more people will start mining. Especially when ISK/hr gets up past 20-25M range. I'll be surprised to see hi-sec ores get into the 200-250 ISK/m3 range for more then a short amount of time (2 months).
Null-sec miners, OTOH, generally won't get out of bed for less then 60-70M ISK/hr, because they can make that much running anoms or blowing up belt rats. That means that null-sec ores need to be worth at least 3.5x the value of hi-sec ores (so 500-600 ISK/m3 range) instead of only being worth 2.0-2.5x (with some like Spod being garbage).
Personally, I think the right answer would be to boost the amount of minerals in the ABCs (and Spod / Gneiss / DarkO) by about 20-30%. Which would make those ores worth more on a ISK/m3 basis when compared to the high-sec ores. Or lower the m3/unit size of some of the mid-ranged ores rather then keep them at 8-16 m3/unit. |

Slavemaster
ICC - Information Control Corporation
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 12:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
This is the most stupid order I have ever seen on the marked order.
- Unless, just one of them is real, the rest is a margin trading scam. With the benefit of doubt I say the odds for that. is 95% +
So, where is the logic. Here it is: I got x amount of trit, and I wanna get a 20% + profit on it. I set up a fake buy order on trit with margin trading, for the sole purpose of selling my stacked Trit.
Since I dont have any Trir, and dont want Trit to go that High, I post this.
- Cheers |

Slavemaster
ICC - Information Control Corporation
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 12:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bha,... Double post....
Edit:
Ohh Yeah wrote:I just watched a bunch of buy orders @ 4.60 ISK/unit get filled
I guess somebody unloaded their stockpile
edit: Didn't CCP once say that their desired prices for minerals were something along the lines of
Trit - 2 ISK/u Pyerite - 4 ISK/u Mex - 8 ISK/u Isogen - 32 ISK/u
If I recall, that is how insurance payouts were calculated before, but prices never really matched up in-game. That's why insurance fraud was possible if you played your cards right.
Perhaps this is an attempt to revitalize 0.0 and bring prices in line with how CCP and Dr. Eggnog envision them?
- The odds that they are getting canceled bc of the "Margin trade" skill is more likely. So, that can be the first sign ogfthe scam, and that the "scammer " did the mistake of not using a real order at the top of the list. |

bonder's
Knights of the Reclaimed Origin
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 16:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Slavemaster wrote:This is the most stupid order I have ever seen on the marked order.
- Unless, just one of them is real, the rest is a margin trading scam. With the benefit of doubt I say the odds for that. is 95% +
So, where is the logic. Here it is: I got x amount of trit, and I wanna get a 20% + profit on it. I set up a fake buy order on trit with margin trading, for the sole purpose of selling my stacked Trit.
Since I dont have any Trit, and dont want Trit to go that High, I post this.
- Cheers
So.... Dont belive the Hype
wtf are you talking about? |

Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
27
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 17:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
bonder's wrote:
wtf are you talking about?
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1203/jitaTrit.jpg |

bonder's
Knights of the Reclaimed Origin
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 18:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
cripes that a lot of trit buy orders, that number looks a bit wired though like when cpp seeds stuff on the market =) |

Javajunky
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 18:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
I'm not really tracking on this...
I'm not really sure what a Mining Crystal bump would do when you consider the fact that there just aren't enough low end rocks to grab on to when you account for two things.
(1) Yes there are more belts in null than low sec and empire combined but there just isn't enough low end rocks to really make a big impact. (2) You can't assume that Hulks / Multi-Boxing Fleet guys are going to jump around systems looking for Belts to settle into, the price doesnt matter when you account for the risk of the hulk. Null sec mining is a high risk event to begin with, at most you will go to a system next door but you never go to a system where you don't ahve a station or a corporate POS to deposit personal ore in or safe up when neuts show up.
That being said...
Mining Crystal Changes dont really fix a problem however the following might be options worth entertaining.
(a) Make Null Sec Belts shaped more like Empire Belts where most can be reached from a single location, then add a ton of low end rocks to them to chew on. You have more hulks opportunities in belts for PVPers to chase, and the buff would be equal to sov holding entities as well as NPC null sec space.
(b) Make Small / Med / XL changes. Don't decrease the high end composition (ABCM) but greatly increase the Low End rock composition so there's a reason to be in these belts besides a quick cherry pick. Leave the Large Grav site - working as intended.
In summary, from a pro miner, if mining crystal changes are the CCP solution, if you got the isk buy the low ends now because it aint gonna get cheaper.
LESSON: Never assume someone is always going to chase the ISK without accounting for the logistics or risk. |

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
546
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 18:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
In null sec industry upgrades give you an endless supply of rocks in the system. But to get a new site to spawn you got to mine out the old one, and few want to mine the low end roids, they all go for the ABC ores. Crystals that speed up mining the low ends would help that situation. I am running for the CSM. Take a look at my ideas. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

IonHammer
Van Diemen's Demise Northern Coalition.
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
I remember mining in Y2-ano Fountain years ago in a barge, was the early days when BOB went to delve. The main issue i see in null sec barge mining is the cycle time and when someone drops into local and you bail you loose too much ore.
Better options are always get the cycle time down. Or much better get miner barge drones for the cap indy ships so they can lurk at a pos and have some sort of beacon or roid painter to mark the target for the drones.
Either way you need to do work on making barges more effective overall not just mining ore.
Lets face it put your hands up those that have bubbled the in gate of a dead end system so they have the warp out time needed, (T3 fixed that solution) what about mining in cyno jammed system (Black ops).
There is still a lot of work to get done b4 you see the price of trit drop to 2 IMHO.
|

JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
51
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 23:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Brock Nelson wrote:Reading the thread on Reddit, if CCP does go forward with introducing this new crystal along with others for different ore, I doubt trit would see much drop in price. If you're a miner in null space, would you mine for Trit or Zydrine? I could see high end mineral dropping in price (especially nocxium), but not low end. Edit: Mineral Value - I think this is the mineral value that CCP is trying to aim for.
You have no idea how much tritanium is a bottleneck in 0.0
|

Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
867
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 23:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mephistocles wrote:Not sure about trit... But I am shorting MD mineral speculation/manipulation threads, because supply is going up astronomically. 
Stock dumping |

Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 19:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
That is the base value ccp set at the start of the game, the market was initially fixed with npc orders. For a long time they still calculated things at this price despite the fact market forces changed them long ago. The most obvious was insurance but drone alloys are another good example, they wouldn't seem nearly as broken if trit was still 2 isk etc |

Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
177
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 23:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
There is no way to effect a null only crystal or script. If there was rumor of them buffing I-Hub bonus to null mining I could see it working out but a T2 Miner will activate anywhere in EVE regardless of its crystal. Modules that are disabled in high and low sec simply don't work. I just can't figure out how this could happen. |

ginzor
Hounds Of War WHY so Seri0Us
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 02:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote: You have no idea how much MEXALLON is a bottleneck in 0.0
there fixed it for you. |

Frillo Teslar
High Flyers RED.OverLord
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 14:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
Skydell wrote:There is no way to effect a null only crystal or script. If there was rumor of them buffing I-Hub bonus to null mining I could see it working out but a T2 Miner will activate anywhere in EVE regardless of its crystal. Modules that are disabled in high and low sec simply don't work. I just can't figure out how this could happen.
It's simple. The advanced crystals are banned in empire. |

Una Achura
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 19:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Frillo Teslar wrote:Skydell wrote:There is no way to effect a null only crystal or script. If there was rumor of them buffing I-Hub bonus to null mining I could see it working out but a T2 Miner will activate anywhere in EVE regardless of its crystal. Modules that are disabled in high and low sec simply don't work. I just can't figure out how this could happen. It's simple. The advanced crystals are banned in empire.
So... you smuggle them in on a disposable alt and then simply operate out of a single system. Customs only cargo scan on gates right? Even if you can get scanned on stations too, simply operate out of a highsec POS...
So the only way to enforce null only is to add a dedicated miner module that only works in null to use these crystals.
|

Ohh Yeah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 20:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Una Achura wrote:Frillo Teslar wrote:Skydell wrote:There is no way to effect a null only crystal or script. If there was rumor of them buffing I-Hub bonus to null mining I could see it working out but a T2 Miner will activate anywhere in EVE regardless of its crystal. Modules that are disabled in high and low sec simply don't work. I just can't figure out how this could happen. It's simple. The advanced crystals are banned in empire. So... you smuggle them in on a disposable alt and then simply operate out of a single system. Customs only cargo scan on gates right? Even if you can get scanned on stations too, simply operate out of a highsec POS... So the only way to enforce null only is to add a dedicated miner module that only works in null to use these crystals.
Banned in empire means the module cannot activate with that script in.
It's like dictor bubbles. They are marked as "banned in empire" in the item attributes.
If you load one of these scripts, you are not able to activate the miner in highsec. |

c4 t
Push Pharmaceuticals Push Interstellar Network
19
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 07:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
IonHammer wrote:I remember mining in Y2-ano Fountain years ago in a barge, was the early days when BOB went to delve. The main issue i see in null sec barge mining is the cycle time and when someone drops into local and you bail you loose too much ore.
Better options are always get the cycle time down. Or much better get miner barge drones for the cap indy ships so they can lurk at a pos and have some sort of beacon or roid painter to mark the target for the drones.
Either way you need to do work on making barges more effective overall not just mining ore.
Lets face it put your hands up those that have bubbled the in gate of a dead end system so they have the warp out time needed, (T3 fixed that solution) what about mining in cyno jammed system (Black ops).
There is still a lot of work to get done b4 you see the price of trit drop to 2 IMHO.
Actually if you cut your cycle off early it deposits ore equiv to what you have mined for the period of time into your cargo. |

Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
190
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 07:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
c4 t wrote:
Actually if you cut your cycle off early it deposits ore equiv to what you have mined for the period of time into your cargo.
I was thinking the same thing. Then I remembered that it didn't used too. You can get off his lawn now.
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