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Antodias
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.22 22:56:00 -
[1]
I don't usually do serious poasts, so bear with me:
As is obvious, the amount of capitals in the game has skyrocketed over the past couple of years. As the amount of capitals has increased, so has the amount of capkills and this has led to the all too common phenomenon of capital ships self destructed to deny loot and a killmail.
Why is this a Problem?
Why shouldn't they be allowed to self destruct? It's their ship right? Yes, but self destructing should be a choice which is risky, whereas for most pilots now it's just a button you push when it's blindingly obvious you're going to die so that you can deny your aggressors shiny stuff, and so you're not forced to upload that embarrassing lossmail. However - the problem is not self destructing itself; it's the two minute timer. It should always be an option - but more of a risk based thing (as in, "Will help arrive in time?"; "Is this fleet able to take me down?" etc etc). That's not the only problem however - it actively encourages blobbing on the target in order to kill it within the time, and furthermore reduces the fun in smaller lowsec roaming gangs as these rarely have DPS to finish a capital in short order. (In this situation most caps can hit self destruct when they go into hull)
What do you want done?
It's pretty obvious to me, make the timer longer. I would suggest a flat minimum of 5 minutes for all carriers and dreads, although frankly I'd really think it'd be better closer to 8 - 10 minutes. 10 should also be the minimum for motherships. With this, the capital pilot will be forced to choose to self destruct maybe half way through a fight (against a small gang), rather than right at the end.
I think you're a talentless grieving ganker who emocries everytime you don't get your precious killmail to stare at all day.
More or less. 
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Artemis Rose
Eleckrostatik
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Posted - 2008.06.22 23:25:00 -
[2]
Well it would be nice to make the timer much longer.
In the end, they don't have a capital anymore and its because you and company. Leave the kill board stats for the forum trolls and e-peen wavers.
__________________________________________________
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat. |
Sabrosa Namaste
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Posted - 2008.06.22 23:33:00 -
[3]
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood
DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.23 02:27:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Antodias
I don't usually do serious poasts, so bear with me:
As is obvious, the amount of capitals in the game has skyrocketed over the past couple of years. As the amount of capitals has increased, so has the amount of capkills and this has led to the all too common phenomenon of capital ships self destructed to deny loot and a killmail.
Why is this a Problem?
Why shouldn't they be allowed to self destruct? It's their ship right? Yes, but self destructing should be a choice which is risky, whereas for most pilots now it's just a button you push when it's blindingly obvious you're going to die so that you can deny your aggressors shiny stuff, and so you're not forced to upload that embarrassing lossmail. However - the problem is not self destructing itself; it's the two minute timer. It should always be an option - but more of a risk based thing (as in, "Will help arrive in time?"; "Is this fleet able to take me down?" etc etc). That's not the only problem however - it actively encourages blobbing on the target in order to kill it within the time, and furthermore reduces the fun in smaller lowsec roaming gangs as these rarely have DPS to finish a capital in short order. (In this situation most caps can hit self destruct when they go into hull)
What do you want done?
It's pretty obvious to me, make the timer longer. I would suggest a flat minimum of 5 minutes for all carriers and dreads, although frankly I'd really think it'd be better closer to 8 - 10 minutes. 10 should also be the minimum for motherships. With this, the capital pilot will be forced to choose to self destruct maybe half way through a fight (against a small gang), rather than right at the end.
I think you're a talentless grieving ganker who emocries everytime you don't get your precious killmail to stare at all day.
More or less.
I quote your post because, while I would like to contribute something to the thread in addition to just clicking the Support box before posting, I find that I cannot elaborate or expound on the topic in any meaningful way that would be better than (or yet even live up to) the profundity of the original post itself.
You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar and I salute you.
Originally by: CCP Explorer
You can still steal their stuff.
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Gneeznow
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.23 20:53:00 -
[5]
Being robbed of a capital killmail that you worked hard for sucks, a longer self destruct timer for capital ships would be great.
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Feng Schui
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.06.23 21:28:00 -
[6]
Project:Gank
Pilgrim Guide
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Smacktalking Alt
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:28:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Smacktalking Alt on 23/06/2008 23:28:03
Killmail obsession is a tragic disease. We need to be researching a cure, not encouraging it. Not signed.
-------------------------------------------------
I'm trollin'
They hatin'
Patrollin' and tryin' to catch me writin' dirty! |
Antodias
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.24 10:52:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Antodias on 24/06/2008 10:52:09
Originally by: Smacktalking Alt
Edited by: Smacktalking Alt on 23/06/2008 23:28:03
Killmail obsession is a tragic disease. We need to be researching a cure, not encouraging it. Not signed.
Like it or not, killmails are part of the game and part of the allure for many players. I don't see a problem with it since we are already playing internet spaceships.
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Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.06.24 11:56:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Smacktalking Alt
Edited by: Smacktalking Alt on 23/06/2008 23:28:03
Killmail obsession is a tragic disease. We need to be researching a cure, not encouraging it. Not signed.
^^
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Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature.
There you go. Now that wasn't so hard  |
Loreth
V.L.A.S.T.
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.06.24 13:51:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Loreth on 24/06/2008 13:51:13
Despite i chose to do this once on an alt i cant deny its wrong and vote "Yes"
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Setana Manoro
Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.24 14:06:00 -
[11]
Posting in a thread of a KM addict.
Why do you want to deny the victim's right of using a scorched earth tactic. Just Screenshot it, and fake a KM with just the ship dying, it's an accepted practice.
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Matalino
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:18:00 -
[12]
So what is the real problem?
That they self-destruct to deny loot?
That they self-destruct to deny killmail?
That they they can escape from their locked down ship without ejecting?
It might be interesting (in a completely stupid and impractal way) to completely remove the option for self-destruction. That way when you find a solo mothership pilot you can lock him down and hold him in place until he ejects, and gives the entire ship along with all its modules.
Otherwise, just issue a killmail on all player deaths. Let the suicidal pilot brag about his self-inflicted death on the killboards. If he is fast enough, he might even get credit for doing the most damage to his own ship. 
PS - not supported because I really don't care.
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Dianeces
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:51:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Matalino
So what is the real problem?
The problem is the 2 minute timer is much too short for capital ships.
Also, supportin' dis.
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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.06.24 23:37:00 -
[14]
SD'ing capitals are a joke. This needs a fix
==
Above comments are my personal views
Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
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Farrqua
Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.25 00:20:00 -
[15]
Along with that. Absolutely no isk back from suiciding his/her/it's ship. That would make the choice of pushing that button a little more desperate. And knowing that they will not get bupkis, well that might make them think twice and weigh out what is more important to them.
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Bad Harlequin
Chiroptera Factor
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Posted - 2008.06.25 03:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Antodias
Edited by: Antodias on 24/06/2008 10:52:09
Originally by: Smacktalking Alt
Edited by: Smacktalking Alt on 23/06/2008 23:28:03
Killmail obsession is a tragic disease. We need to be researching a cure, not encouraging it. Not signed.
Like it or not, killmails are part of the game and part of the allure for many players. I don't see a problem with it since we are already playing internet spaceships.
this.
i don't see the reason for self-destruct in the first place. IMHO the only way it should be allowed is if you had a radius of death and destruction like a smartbomb that affected friend and foe alike. THAT'S self-destruct. none of this wussy "oh look i'm magically an egg now buhbye as sail away on my fairy wings" magic-painless-detonation crap.
-----
-- we all live in a yellow subroutine -- |
NereSky
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.25 07:26:00 -
[17]
not agreed - i believe voiding the insurance on ships that self destruct would be better.
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Lord WarATron
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.25 08:16:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 25/06/2008 08:16:36
Issue is not to increase self destruct, but rather to give lossmails to the top damage dealer. Simple solution - Do what happens if a NPC kills a target - which is send a copy of lossmail to top player damage dealer
I will support this on the basis that the issue is about lossmails rather than the time limit.
--
Billion Isk Mission |
Sir Substance
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Posted - 2008.06.25 08:53:00 -
[19]
heh, ive said it before and ill say it again. someone killed themselves for you, saving you time, effort and possibly a few ships in your fleet, and your crying because you didn't get a text file?
remember, no insurance, not even the default, for them if they self destruct.
not supported, reassess your priorities instead.
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Antodias
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.25 11:26:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sir Substance
not supported, reassess your priorities instead.
I just wanted to restate again that we are in fact playing internets spaceships so...
lol irony
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Dianeces
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.25 21:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sir Substance
h
remember, no insurance, not even the default, for them if they self destruct.
Sry, nop. You still get insurance. Thanks for playing.
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Marius Deterium
The Hull Miners Union
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2008.06.25 21:59:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Marius Deterium on 25/06/2008 21:59:43
I think I have an interesting solution for this problem.
Increase the time, that is fine with me. But right now self destruct is like this...
Tick tock, tick tock, BOOM!
Why not instead of having the timer count down have self destruct slowly do damage to the ship. Slowly draining shields, then armor, then structure. Then boom.
This way the attacking force may actually get the kill rather than the self destruct.
In addition, why not send a kill(loss) mail anyways. With the self-destructor as the 'final blow', and the rest of the gents who did damage show up on the kill as normal.
I think this option would go a long ways to ending self destructs for this reason.
---
Mining hulls for the juicy goods inside.
Good...bad, I'm the guy with the gun. |
Astria Tiphareth
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Posted - 2008.06.26 14:19:00 -
[23]
Nothing wrong with scorched earth. There should always remain the opportunity to deny your foe loot (and if you care about such things, killmails).
Extending the timer is pointless unless there is no way to cancel it. Otherwise the moment you enter combat, you turn it on and then cancel it when it looks like you're going to win.
From a purely economic view, the use of self-destruct has no impact on warfare. The pilot is still out a capital ship and the modules. If your intel is any good at their job, you won't be relying on killmails to estimate the economic damage of your fights (not with these tactics about anyway). If you want to make a case that self-destruct impacts your ISK revenue from loot, then make that case.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
NobodyGood
UK1 Zero
G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.06.26 14:29:00 -
[24]
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