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To mare
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Posted - 2008.06.24 14:31:00 -
[1]
After the 1400mm whine and the tempest/minamtar BS whine here is the autocannons whine.
PRO of autocannons:
no cap required to fire.
best tracking.
high falloff.
CONS of autocannons:
low DPS.
low optimal.
Fighting in falloff they lose a lot of DPS.
Some numbers:
LARGE AUTOCANNON
800mm -> 4.8+16 optimal+falloff -- 0.4104 raw DPS w/o bonus -- 4.96% better than tier 2 weapon
650mm -> 4.3+16 optimal+falloff -- 0.3910 raw DPS w/o bonus -- 6.66% better than tier 1 weapon
425mm -> 3.8+16 optimal+falloff -- 0.3666 raw DPS w/o bonus
800mm have 11.95% better DPS than 425mm
LARGE BLASTER
Neutrons -> 7.2+10 optimal+falloff -- 0.5329 raw DPS w/o bonus -- 6.58% better than tier 2 weapon
Ions -> 6.0+8 optimal+falloff --0.5000 raw DPS w/o bonus -- 7.30% better than tier 1 weapon
Electron -> 4.8+6 optimal+falloff -- 0.4666 raw DPS w/o bonus
neutrons have 14.21% better DPS than electron
LARGE PULSE LASER
Mega pulse-> 24+8 optimal+falloff -- 0.4568 raw DPS w/o bonus
Heavy pulse -> 22+6 optimal+falloff -- 0.3947 raw DPS w/o bonus
Mega pulse have 15.73% better DPS than heavy pulse
-----------------------------------
with those stats (taken from item database) we see:
- autos have a 27-29% less DPS than blaster and less optimal than blaster
- autos have a 7-11% less DPS than laser and a lot less optimal
- autos have more falloff (read damage reduction in falloff)
-while both laser + blaster increase their optimal and falloff with the tier of the weapon autocannos get only 1 mere km and fixed falloff.
-laser and blaster get better DPS increase at the increasing of the weapon size.
-projectile low range ammo T1/faction have 9% less damage than laser-blaster low range T1/faction ammo.
Sum all the stats and we come to the point we all know : Autocannons are subpar to the others weapon systems.
Medium and Small autocannos have the same problems but I already did a damn long post with large guns not gonna post medium and small right now
Solutions?
Ideas?
Flame on.
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To mare
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Posted - 2008.06.25 06:46:00 -
[2]
Edited by: To mare on 25/06/2008 06:47:44
some things i tought
1) blaster from T1 gon to T3 gun get a +45% range, what about increasing falloff of autocannon with the tier of the gun?
425 stay at 16km
650 go at 19km falloff
800 go at 22km falloff
2) give autocannons a damge increase with the tier of the gun in line with what the others weapons get, give minmatar a good reason to fit larger guns.
3) fix the close combat ammo EMP and put it in line with others close combat ammo.
4) autocannon need a DPS increase to stay between laser and blaster. blaster should be the king of close combat (and they are), laser should be the king of long range DPS (and they are), projectile should stay in the middle(and they arent).
no cap usage and better fittings are just excuses: unbonused torps have more DPS than bonused projectile with 20KM(w/o bonus) optimal a real damge selection and USE NO CAP, fitting requirements are balanced for all the weapon for the ship where the weapon is supposed to go.
edit:typos
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To mare
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Posted - 2008.06.25 12:38:00 -
[3]
try loading to your guns FR EMP and CN AM and the things are even worst
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To mare
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Posted - 2008.06.25 12:52:00 -
[4]
T2 short range high dmg ammo is crap (good only for EFT),
in pvp ppl use faction T1 for max dmg and no drawback.
too bad that T1 high dmg projectile have 9% less dmg than others ammos
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To mare
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Posted - 2008.06.25 15:15:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Jalif
Its the price you pay for it :)
i pay for what?
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To mare
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Posted - 2008.06.26 07:48:00 -
[6]
i think ccp screwed something when they did short range weapon balance.
the common line of this games mechanism is at the increasing of range you get decreasing dps.
now looking at blaster and laser alone they follow this idea: blaster very high dps at close range and laser with good dps at long range. the two weapons are somewhat balanced, if the blaster boat manage to get close it win the battle, if the laser boat manage to maintain range advantage it win the battle.
thats ok, but autocannon?
ACs where supposed to stay in the middle (imho) with better range than blaster due to high falloff and worse range range than laser due to low optimal and this is what they are.
but if they stay in the middle as range why they have the worst DPS of the 3 weapon systems? they should stay in the middle even there.
ps: no cap usage hold no value anymore just look at torps, shocking high raw dps with no cap usage.
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To mare
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Posted - 2008.06.26 08:18:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Elirel
What happens if close range pest uses a couple of neutralizers on mega? Who does moar DPS with no cap? Stop whining, use advantages you have instead of trying to nerf advantages of other races.
1st this isnt the tempest whine thread but we speaking about autocannon.
2nd a good mega have always a med cap injector and thats enough to sustain weapons.
3rd will be a race of capinject/neutrailize more with the tempest already in disavantage for subpar dps and tank.
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To mare
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Posted - 2008.06.26 09:17:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Elirel
Edited by: Elirel on 26/06/2008 08:51:12
Edited by: Elirel on 26/06/2008 08:45:53
1st, 2 neutralizers will keep his cap dry almost permanently. Go ahead and test that on Sisi.
2nd, Tempest will keep shooting while mega will be waiting for cap recharge for occasional shot or two.
Matar weapons are weaker in terms of pure DPS by design. They are supposed to negotiate this by using speed, choosing dmg type and exploiting cap weakness of others.
2 neut will take more than 1 minute to dry a BS sized capacitor pool with gun running, the time increase more if the mega run the injector.
1 min under 1200 dps fire power is almost enough to see a passive tanking tempest pop (see weak EHP), forget about active tanking with neuts.
and even if you manage to kill his cap you are at hull with his drone finshin you while he is still well over 60-70% armor.
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