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Tefkros The Dead Pod Society Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.06.25 09:41:00 - [61] Close the damn spreadsheets. If you don¦t like autocannons and don¦t mind seeing them get better at the expense of cap, fit Blasters on your, for example, Maelstrom. EFT warriors will see that unbonused Neutrons on that ship give more dps than autos. Now you can surely pwn anyone, since you never needed that cap anyway.
Akyla Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.06.25 10:06:00 - [62] I think there should be an increase in Large AC falloff going from tier 1 to tier 3, as with optimal, or just an increase in falloff for all tiers. Typically: Blasters do very high dps at short range. Pulse lasers do high dps at longer range. Currently, AC's do high dps at short range and mediocre dps at longer range. That AC's don't win from a blasterboat at short range is fine by me, that is typical for blasters after all. So, dps for AC's shouldn't be increased directly. But, blasters actually outdamage AC's out to a fairly long range, making AC's fairly useless at any range. Increasing falloff would help a lot with this by improving AC's over blasters at longer range. And at the same time this would prevent AC's from becoming similar to pulse lasers. Just my thoughts. ________________________________ All your honey are belong to us!
super bomberman	Posted - 2008.06.25 11:28:00 - [63] Originally by: Tefkros Close the damn spreadsheets. EFT warriors will see that unbonused Neutrons on that ship give more dps than autos. I thought this was a bit so i had to check for my-self 800 ac mael - 1036 (4 gyros with hail) neutron mael - 1032 (4 mag stabs with void) Now im not one to normally start crying fix this, boost that, nerf the other but those numbers are pretty lol, projectiles/minmatar ships in general could do with maybe a slight tweak
deadmeet	Posted - 2008.06.25 11:49:00 - [64] The problem is that the dev seems to forgot that we fight in fallof when they make the DPS stat... You already can see in EFT that we have the worst DPS, but in addition, you can remove at least 30% of it cause fallof fight... So it is so crappy DPS...
Jalif Deviance Inc Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.06.25 12:14:00 - [65] Well, we could go fit lasers & blasters, however noticed that our cap is already small! So we are a bit forces to fit missiles & projectiles. Projectiles really need a bit of tweaking. ********** BOOST MINMATAR!!! **********
Drek Grapper	Posted - 2008.06.25 12:22:00 - [66] Originally by: super bomberman I thought this was a bit so i had to check for my-self 800 ac mael - 1036 (4 gyros with hail) neutron mael - 1032 (4 mag stabs with void) Now im not one to normally start crying fix this, boost that, nerf the other but those numbers are pretty lol, projectiles/minmatar ships in general could do with maybe a slight tweak I can't believe i just read what i just read... That is just disgusting plain and simple. --------- If the Thorax was a car it would look like this
To mare	Posted - 2008.06.25 12:38:00 - [67] try loading to your guns FR EMP and CN AM and the things are even worst
Akyla Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.06.25 12:44:00 - [68] Edited by: Akyla on 25/06/2008 12:46:11 Edited by: Akyla on 25/06/2008 12:46:04 Originally by: To mare try loading to your guns FR EMP and CN AM and the things are even worst It's because fitting 8x hail comes with a build-in -32% penalty to caprecharge amount. EDIT: Ok, Void also uses more cap than antimatter. ________________________________ All your honey are belong to us!
To mare	Posted - 2008.06.25 12:52:00 - [69] T2 short range high dmg ammo is crap (good only for EFT), in pvp ppl use faction T1 for max dmg and no drawback. too bad that T1 high dmg projectile have 9% less dmg than others ammos
Jalif Deviance Inc Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.06.25 15:06:00 - [70] Originally by: To mare T2 short range high dmg ammo is crap (good only for EFT), in pvp ppl use faction T1 for max dmg and no drawback. too bad that T1 high dmg projectile have 9% less dmg than others ammos Its the price you pay for it :) ********** BOOST MINMATAR!!! **********
To mare	Posted - 2008.06.25 15:15:00 - [71] Originally by: Jalif Its the price you pay for it :) i pay for what?
Trojanman190 D00M.	Posted - 2008.06.25 15:22:00 - [72] Edited by: Trojanman190 on 25/06/2008 15:22:54 Originally by: Drek Grapper Originally by: super bomberman I thought this was a bit so i had to check for my-self 800 ac mael - 1036 (4 gyros with hail) neutron mael - 1032 (4 mag stabs with void) Now im not one to normally start crying fix this, boost that, nerf the other but those numbers are pretty lol, projectiles/minmatar ships in general could do with maybe a slight tweak I can't believe i just read what i just read... That is just disgusting plain and simple. You should see lasers with scorch. Slightly less damage, but a range out to 45km At 35km the ac do roughly 400 dps while the lasers closer to 800. Fun. Here are a few reason I think nobody pointed this out sooner. 1. Tempest gets 2 gun bonuses, nobody would ever not fit AC or Arty to it. 2. Nos phoons were cool and now neut phoons are too. Plus fitting the bigger guns kinda sucks. But not we have the mealstrom, it can fit just about anything and only has one gun bonus. It works really well for fitting other races' weapons.
Jalif Deviance Inc Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.06.25 15:49:00 - [73] Originally by: Trojanman190 Edited by: Trojanman190 on 25/06/2008 15:22:54 Originally by: Drek Grapper Originally by: super bomberman I thought this was a bit so i had to check for my-self 800 ac mael - 1036 (4 gyros with hail) neutron mael - 1032 (4 mag stabs with void) Now im not one to normally start crying fix this, boost that, nerf the other but those numbers are pretty lol, projectiles/minmatar ships in general could do with maybe a slight tweak I can't believe i just read what i just read... That is just disgusting plain and simple. You should see lasers with scorch. Slightly less damage, but a range out to 45km At 35km the ac do roughly 400 dps while the lasers closer to 800. Fun. Here are a few reason I think nobody pointed this out sooner. 1. Tempest gets 2 gun bonuses, nobody would ever not fit AC or Arty to it. 2. Nos phoons were cool and now neut phoons are too. Plus fitting the bigger guns kinda sucks. But not we have the mealstrom, it can fit just about anything and only has one gun bonus. It works really well for fitting other races' weapons. Well I don't want to be that versaitile you know. & if we fit other races weapons our cap will die amazingly fast & we won't be able to run that shieldbooster of ours. But yeah, just for pure DPS you better off with other guns. ********** BOOST MINMATAR!!! **********
Trojanman190 D00M. The Requiem	Posted - 2008.06.25 16:44:00 - [74] I'm honestly of the opinion that overall, ccp screwed up when they gave ships gun specific racial bonuses. The three weapon types should be different enough to use them on any ship in different situations. Blasters on your uber close range ship, lasers on your mid range support... etc. Making the weapons overlap in to many places leaves to much room for there to be an odd man out, which, right now, is ac. If I could do anything I wanted... Id remove all the gun specific bonuses from ships. Blasters would be close range dps weapons. (no change) Rails would be ultra long range low dps low alpha weapons. (no change) Pulse lasers would be high dps (lower than blasters) medium range weapons. (no change) Beam lasers would be low alpha, high dps (than rails) lower range (than rails) and higher tracking (than rails) Ac would have lowest dps at any range, but EXTREMELY high tracking (spraying bullets all over the place, would hose up nanogangs etc) Artillery would have low tracking, low range, low dps, but INSANE alpha (hey tahts what we are asking for....) End of my crazy idea. Even tho the vast majority of what I said is already in place... Right now if minmatar ships did not recieve bonuses to large projectiles, nobody would use them. If the tempest had bonuses that did not effect guns (speed, or tanking, whatev) I would fit blasters or lasers or rails. But since ships have racial bonuses we have to make due. Our weapons need to be the best at something and need to be able to at least compete at everything else.
AstroPhobic	Posted - 2008.06.25 19:15:00 - [75] Edited by: AstroPhobic on 25/06/2008 19:16:32 Edited by: AstroPhobic on 25/06/2008 19:16:01 A little disgusting, so I thought you should see. You run out of CPU for a MWD, but meh Note: This is a DOUBLE PROJECTILE damage bonused ship. [Tempest, Useful] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron ECCM - Ladar II 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Trimarks/Whatever you want Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1 DPS: 1187 Launcher DPS: 474 at 20.3KM Gun DPS: 503 at 3KM Drone DPS: 210 Gun DPS at 20KM: 300 Missile/Drone DPS at 20KM: 684 GG CCP, GG.
Jalif Deviance Inc Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.06.25 19:23:00 - [76] Stop it, it hurts my eyes PS: NO, THEY ARE BLEEDING /back to normal Yeah? what can I say? Numbers say enough. I don't think any player how good he is in eve, can do something usefull with projectiles. ********** BOOST MINMATAR!!! **********
Gavin Darklighter THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.06.25 22:40:00 - [77] Originally by: Jalif Yeah? what can I say? Numbers say enough. I don't think any player how good he is in eve, can do something usefull with projectiles. Tempest can't do anything useful with autocannons, but the Maelstrom can.
Siddy Gay Nationalist Association of Amamake	Posted - 2008.06.25 23:18:00 - [78] Autocannons are fine, fit lasers. ------------- T'ey see me t'Rollin, t'ey hatin, pa'trolli. T'ey trying catch me writing dirty...
SickSeven	Posted - 2008.06.26 00:38:00 - [79] Originally by: Siddy Autocannons are fine, fit lasers. Did you read ANY of this thread?
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.06.26 03:28:00 - [80] Originally by: SickSeven Originally by: Siddy Autocannons are fine, fit lasers. Did you read ANY of this thread? This.
To mare	Posted - 2008.06.26 07:48:00 - [81] i think ccp screwed something when they did short range weapon balance. the common line of this games mechanism is at the increasing of range you get decreasing dps. now looking at blaster and laser alone they follow this idea: blaster very high dps at close range and laser with good dps at long range. the two weapons are somewhat balanced, if the blaster boat manage to get close it win the battle, if the laser boat manage to maintain range advantage it win the battle. thats ok, but autocannon? ACs where supposed to stay in the middle (imho) with better range than blaster due to high falloff and worse range range than laser due to low optimal and this is what they are. but if they stay in the middle as range why they have the worst DPS of the 3 weapon systems? they should stay in the middle even there. ps: no cap usage hold no value anymore just look at torps, shocking high raw dps with no cap usage.
Elirel	Posted - 2008.06.26 08:12:00 - [82] Edited by: Elirel on 26/06/2008 08:12:01 Originally by: Gavin Darklighter Maybe you didn't look at the graph, or maybe you are incapable of interpreting it, but a neutron Mega out damages a tempest to outside scram range. What happens if close range pest uses a couple of neutralizers on mega? Who does moar DPS with no cap? Stop whining, use advantages you have instead of trying to nerf advantages of other races.
To mare	Posted - 2008.06.26 08:18:00 - [83] Originally by: Elirel What happens if close range pest uses a couple of neutralizers on mega? Who does moar DPS with no cap? Stop whining, use advantages you have instead of trying to nerf advantages of other races. 1st this isnt the tempest whine thread but we speaking about autocannon. 2nd a good mega have always a med cap injector and thats enough to sustain weapons. 3rd will be a race of capinject/neutrailize more with the tempest already in disavantage for subpar dps and tank.
Elirel	Posted - 2008.06.26 08:44:00 - [84] Edited by: Elirel on 26/06/2008 08:51:12 Edited by: Elirel on 26/06/2008 08:45:53 Originally by: To mare 2nd a good mega have always a med cap injector and thats enough to sustain weapons. 3rd will be a race of capinject/neutrailize more with the tempest already in disavantage for subpar dps and tank. 1st, 2 neutralizers will keep his cap dry almost permanently. Go ahead and test that on Sisi. 2nd, Tempest will keep shooting while mega will be waiting for cap recharge for occasional shot or two. Matar weapons are weaker in terms of pure DPS by design. They are supposed to negotiate this by using speed, choosing dmg type and exploiting cap weakness of others.
Terracomm	Posted - 2008.06.26 09:01:00 - [85] Originally by: Elirel Edited by: Elirel on 26/06/2008 08:51:12 Edited by: Elirel on 26/06/2008 08:45:53 Originally by: To mare 2nd a good mega have always a med cap injector and thats enough to sustain weapons. 3rd will be a race of capinject/neutrailize more with the tempest already in disavantage for subpar dps and tank. 1st, 2 neutralizers will keep his cap dry almost permanently. Go ahead and test that on Sisi. 2nd, Tempest will keep shooting while mega will be waiting for cap recharge for occasional shot or two. Matar weapons are weaker in terms of pure DPS by design. They are supposed to negotiate this by using speed, choosing dmg type and exploiting cap weakness of others. Ah yes, another user that can type for hours and never actually get anywhere or type anything worth any merit. Are you perhaps a politician? There are quite a few flaws with Tempest(Has been said countless times) and projectile weapons, which are amplified once experienced using the larger varieties.
Elirel	Posted - 2008.06.26 09:13:00 - [86] Originally by: Terracomm There are quite a few flaws with Tempest(Has been said countless times) and projectile weapons, which are amplified once experienced using the larger varieties. Words, words... Lets go to Sisi and i will show you how to kill mega with tempest?
To mare	Posted - 2008.06.26 09:17:00 - [87] Originally by: Elirel Edited by: Elirel on 26/06/2008 08:51:12 Edited by: Elirel on 26/06/2008 08:45:53 1st, 2 neutralizers will keep his cap dry almost permanently. Go ahead and test that on Sisi. 2nd, Tempest will keep shooting while mega will be waiting for cap recharge for occasional shot or two. Matar weapons are weaker in terms of pure DPS by design. They are supposed to negotiate this by using speed, choosing dmg type and exploiting cap weakness of others. 2 neut will take more than 1 minute to dry a BS sized capacitor pool with gun running, the time increase more if the mega run the injector. 1 min under 1200 dps fire power is almost enough to see a passive tanking tempest pop (see weak EHP), forget about active tanking with neuts. and even if you manage to kill his cap you are at hull with his drone finshin you while he is still well over 60-70% armor.
Siddy Gay Nationalist Association of Amamake	Posted - 2008.06.26 11:51:00 - [88] Edited by: Siddy on 26/06/2008 11:54:36 Actualy, good skilled megapilot can fit large cap injector and still get lots of EHP and 1200 DPS It just take 5% CPU implant that is 15 to 20m in market. Edit: Controlled burst 5 + Large electro chem cap injector Will sustain your cap despite 2x neutting. ------------- T'ey see me t'Rollin, t'ey hatin, pa'trolli. T'ey trying catch me writing dirty...
AstroPhobic	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:15:00 - [89] Plus, if you want to keep neuting, you have to have a cap injector. Do realize it TAKES cap to REMOVE cap.
Happster Polaris Project	Posted - 2008.06.26 21:14:00 - [90] Edited by: Happster on 26/06/2008 21:15:19 I have flown Minnie BS a while now, but has adapted and converted to both caldari and gallente to keep up with rest of eve. Only minnie BS i keep flying atm is the phoon, but it doesnt got AC's fitted. As i see it the AC's has a few things i would like changed for it to be worth using. 1. Change its close ammo optimal. Example remove optimal penalty on both Hail and EMP. This would give it an optimal at 6km. Having same optimal as gallente guns which do more dps is just rubbish and destructive for the AC's. Optimal could even be higher then 6km. 2. Buff 800 AC's a bit to get in line with other race biggest gun. Maybe this would be enough i dont know.

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