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Election underway in Minmatar Republic

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Sky Grunthor The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.25 15:37:00 - [1] Quote: Election booths opened today across the Republic as citizens began to vote for their new parliament and prime minister. With all the tribal parties rallying behind Maleatu Shakor's bid for premiership, the outcome seems foretold. This has not dimmed the resolve of the populace to go out and vote, with vast numbers already queueing up at public voting booths to show their support. No opponents have stepped forward to run against Shakor, making this the first uncontested election in the history of the Minmatar Republic. Public support for the lone candidate is high, although dissenting voices have been heard from several democracy activist groups, who have been vocal in their opposition to the arrangement. "It's ridiculous," said Sastia Langon, spokesperson for the Minmatar Process League. "It's a subversion of all that we've been laboring to build in this great nation. It's a step backwards for everyone. Who's to say there aren't opponents willing to step up? Who's to say they haven't been intimidated into not running?" Langon's comments, as with all other public commentary on the issue, have gone entirely unheeded by the extant power structures within the Republic as they gear up for what appears to be not only a regime change but, in the words of one analyst, "a complete restructuring of the government, from the ground up." Signs and banners are visible everywhere, carrying slogans of support for Shakor. Rallies and spontaneous celebrations have been commonplace in all of the Republic's largest cities ever since liberated Minmatar began to pour into the spaceports. "There's a mixture of jubilance and hope now," said assembly technician Arnatt Kimkar, who yesterday was reunited with his twenty-two year old son Markus after eleven years apart. "For the first time, it feels like something could happen. You know, something real." Minmatar brethren! In the past I have fully supported the democratic tenets of the Republic! But now we are being usurped by a military dictatorship. The days of choosing your own way and voicing your own opinion is coming to an end soon within our great republic. Are you going to stand behind this pupput, Maleatu Shakor? Or are you going to embrace your own destiny, your own freedom, your own future! I call this election a travesty, a sham, a shameful act of tyranny. We will seal our doom with smiles on our faces! Why? I ask you, Why? How long before our discourse is banned. How long before the power corrupts. Or is the corrupt claiming the power? I hope that this change that is being forced upon us is for the better but I must be conscientious in my upholding of my core values. Those values can not support a change of government of the magnitude, scope and inherent meaning of the kind being propagated upon this great republic of our race and by our own leaders. They have betrayed the values upon which we have rebuilt our lives, honor and core fundamental precepts of what is good, right and just. Our ancestors did not throw off the yoke of slavery so that we, their children, could take that same yoke upon our shoulders by misguided and misrepresented choice! Nay, I say they surly did not. There would be weeping and gnashing of teeth by our mothers mothers and our fathers fathers should they of lived to seen this day. The struggle to throw off this new yoke of servitude and injustice will be long fought and hard won, but I say to you! It shall be fought, it shall be won. I shall not raise my fist at my brethren except it be the fist of just dissent... I shall not raise my voice against my brethren except it be the voice of reason... I shall not raise my will against my brethren except it be the will of truth. My fist and my voice and my will shall ever strive for the freedom of the minmatar. Search: Sky Grunthor
Sky Grunthor The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.25 15:38:00 - [2] It is a sad day. This day I must turn my back on the Republic.. this day I must proclaim my opposition to the holders of power and the system that is allowing this dictatorship to come to power. I throw off my chains... I throw off my loyalty and proclaim myself a free agent. I am MINMATAR! and I WILL BE FREE! Search: Sky Grunthor
Kade Jeekin Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.25 15:47:00 - [3] Sky Grunthor, you are mistaken in so many ways. Do you not remember the last throes of the democratic republic you so praise? Hit squads, detention without trial and suppression of core Minmatar cultural expressions. All in the name of appeasement of the Amarr. The Elders have returned. We are back on the true path of our people. Celebrate. --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
MirrorGod Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.06.25 15:53:00 - [4] I've never supported any government per say, no politician is to be trusted. With this said, my allegiances will remain steadfast. I fight today for the freedom of my people, and not for the advancement of any bureaucrats agenda. On another note, I must lament it's pleasant to be able to engage all the amarrians I please at will, without stargate and station turrets firing on me. It's really opened up my arsenal. Recruitment: [ANTI]
Sky Grunthor The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.25 16:03:00 - [5] Originally by: Kade Jeekin Sky Grunthor, you are mistaken in so many ways. Do you not remember the last throes of the democratic republic you so praise? Hit squads, detention without trial and suppression of core Minmatar cultural expressions. All in the name of appeasement of the Amarr. The Elders have returned. We are back on the true path of our people. Celebrate. You cite terrible travesties to justice and freedom. But I ask you does one injustice, does a thousand, does a million injustices make a different and new injustice now right? It does not! We will see how this falls out as the days and weeks go by. We will see if our new leader will maintain democracy, we will see if he rejects it. But I say I stand apart. I will voice my concerns. I will voice my dissent. For freedom is to be held sacrosanct even at the cost of our lives. The only yoke of slavery that I will submit to is the slavery to the responsibilities of freedom. The only authority I will acknowledge is the authority of a freely chosen government. And that is the crux of the matter. There is no choice when there is no choices. I am Minmatar. I am free! Search: Sky Grunthor
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2008.06.25 16:09:00 - [6] Originally by: Kade Jeekin The Elders have returned. We are back on the true path of our people. Celebrate. Hahaha. Yes, mindless death and destruction. A wonderful path, not surprising the uncivilized filth from U'K would agree with it. EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE History Wiki
Jasperus Dolorosa	Posted - 2008.06.25 16:10:00 - [7] This is hilarious. The Minmatar start a war that will cost more innocent lives than wretched. As if you didn't free yourself enough, you had to declare war, once again, to "free your people". Who is to say they are your people? Some slaves in the Amarrian Empire simply lack the intelligence to choose what is right for them. Some still are happy with their conditions, others simply better kept enslaved than to be let loose in this three-ring circus that has turned into a hate-driven dictatorship. Oh no, maybe it hasn't turned into a dictatorship quite yet. But you are seeing what is happening here. Voting for ONE candidate! HAH! This is inept. And as if we are to believe no other candidate would come forth with the guts to grasp their chance to serve the people... How low that brings the Minmatar ideals. As if they broke away from the Amarrians for a reason. I guess not. They decide their own fate. This is a sinking ship, and any Minmatar in their right minds will bail.
Kade Jeekin Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.25 16:16:00 - [8] Edited by: Kade Jeekin on 25/06/2008 16:16:32 Sky Grunthor, I understand and respect your misgivings. I also believe that you are wrong again. The democratic republic is not yet disposed of. That the other tribes choose not to field candidates, in the current democratic election, is their own decision. Your posts reek of alarmist nonsense. If you can back them up with facts then please do so. A Tribal republic is truer to our soul than the democratic one ever was. Edit: paragraphs --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
MirrorGod Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.06.25 16:31:00 - [9] Jasperus, I really would like to know why anyone would bail when we have such great opportunities to shoot at lunatic slavers -who are convinced that enslaving the minmatar people is just- like you. Recruitment: [ANTI]
Jasperus Dolorosa	Posted - 2008.06.25 16:52:00 - [10] Originally by: MirrorGod Jasperus, I really would like to know why anyone would bail when we have such great opportunities to shoot at lunatic slavers -who are convinced that enslaving the minmatar people is just- like you. It is only going to get worse. Things are going to get blown out of proportion. Admiral Noir had freedom, and he used it to decimate defenseless beings as rememberance of his deeds. Such as your elders are free, and they go and start a universal war that will only serve, as I have mentioned, to end more innocent lives than anything else. Freeing your people. You are freeing people that will most likely starve from having no money, no shelter, no real governance besides martial law. It is inevitable with the feeble minds they have, they will make brigand groups that pillage because of the fact that they aren't being given their neccessary needs. Even if you plan to give them aid packages, I doubt it will help at all because of your huge war debt you will have to pay off. Not to mention, the inflation will crash to market. It just isn't worth it. And when I mean bail, why don't you go help your Gallente brethren fight for what is theirs against that war profiteer Heth, or whatever that fool's name is.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.25 17:19:00 - [11] Sky Grunthor, I too am worried about these developments. I would encourage you to remember though that the Republic is not an entity that exists on its own right, but rather it is a union of the four tribes, and that it is the chiefs of these tribes that have decided to shape the election the way it has been. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Sky Grunthor The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.25 17:54:00 - [12] Edited by: Sky Grunthor on 25/06/2008 17:56:02 Originally by: Kade Jeekin Edited by: Kade Jeekin on 25/06/2008 16:16:32 Sky Grunthor, I understand and respect your misgivings. I also believe that you are wrong again. The democratic republic is not yet disposed of. That the other tribes choose not to field candidates, in the current democratic election, is their own decision. Your posts reek of alarmist nonsense. If you can back them up with facts then please do so. A Tribal republic is truer to our soul than the democratic one ever was. Edit: paragraphs Alarmist... yes I fully agree it is alarmist. What other drastic words and spoken thoughts would fully express the concern and worry that plagues me with this change of governance? A new leader has been chosen... the halls of government are being cleansed and rebuilt... the old guard has been thrown forcibly into the abyss and yet the new guard, has not declared his intentions, his goals, his ideals beyond the trite and triffle of a news broadcast. Why hide what is transpiring in our capitals halls and chambers? Why not disclose the makeup of the government that is to come? Is this the shouts of a woman who sees a conspiracy behind every move? No... but rather it is an alarm to the lack of communication, to the secrecy, to the shroud that is happening in our government halls! Freedom does not survive in that environment. Of course I speak alarmist words... there is an alarm to be sounded. Until such time, as said before I am a free agent who will strive for freedom above my loyalties. I will not take up arms against my brethren but I will not stand by without raising my voice in dissent and alarm. To those Ammar who dine to interject themselves in a Minmatar matter. Your words are like water to me. For they swell my spirit and provide the sustenance of truth that you surround yourself in evil ideals. No man, no woman is ever not free. Though bound by servitude to you their deserves are freedom and choice. You and your Caldari friends who support your evil empire shall fall from within as all evil empires fall. For evil is destroyed from within and it destroys utterly. It is right and just to war with you at any time while you still hold any man, woman or child in slaveries yoke. And so again we have taken up arms, we have again begun pursuing the justice that our brethren in servitude deserve. I am Minmatar. I am free! Search: Sky Grunthor
Redbad TSL Wolfpack	Posted - 2008.06.25 19:50:00 - [13] Edited by: Redbad on 25/06/2008 19:51:02 Sky, make it a Blanco Vote if you don't like it. I for one fully support the Tribes decision to not put anyone against Shakor. Midular did well to publically call Shakor back and make a statement by not running against him. After what Shakor put in motion with freeing millions of people she showed, in my opinion, great responsibility to our people. Basically she is saying: These actions have changed the functionality of the Republic so greatly that "her" Republic is no more. Shakor should finish what he started and make "his" Republic into "ours" again. She is a very smart politician and should not be underestimated. RB ((edit: spellz))
Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.06.25 19:50:00 - [14] This current election is only for a figurehead for the Republic. The power is held by the Tribal leadership and nothing is going to change that. Shakor exists only to publicly fall on his sword should anything go wrong. Think of him as the Public Relations department for the Republic. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Gottii	Posted - 2008.06.25 21:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Pwett This current election is only for a figurehead for the Republic. The power is held by the Tribal leadership and nothing is going to change that. Shakor exists only to publicly fall on his sword should anything go wrong. Think of him as the Public Relations department for the Republic. Heh. Its not so much Shakor I worry about, its the person who follows in his footsteps. He is an honorable man and a proud warrior of my tribe, but his predecessor might forget the position is just for show. I'm not sure I like this precedent being set. Still, it bodes well for the war effort. The bloated Empire is already stumbling. Shakor is the type of leader who can make sure the Tribes knock it down completely.....
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.25 21:35:00 - [16] Why is it bad that, in an extremely rare exhibition of Matai unity, all of the tribes have decided that the same man represents the best leadership for the Matari people in the coming days? And why is it a surprise coming on the wake of such a stunning victory -- for which he was responsible, at least in some part? -- Becq Starforged The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Sky Grunthor The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.25 23:37:00 - [17] Edited by: Sky Grunthor on 25/06/2008 23:38:53 I give you evidence as to the depth and breadth of the worries that sorround these events. Originally by: Shakor is named as presidential candidate, elections prepared. - News release Pator - Brutor Party Leader and Tribe Chief Wkumi Pol ... stated that "the Minmatar people need a leader who can lead us away from the wreckage of democracy and guide us through dangerous times ... Mr. Shakor has the full support and endorsement of the Brutor Tribe" for the election. ... The Minmatar Republic ... is making headway on preparation for the elections. While complying lawfully with the democratic process, political analysts note that these measures could mark the beginning of a complete transformation of the Republic as it is known today. A complete transformation of the republic is underway. A transformation from the wreckage of democracy! I have made a claim that this has been a military coup, that this is a sham and a travesty... am I the only one who can read a press release and understand what it says? Originally by: Shakor Returns to Republic - New Release Pator - Today saw .. Maleatu Shakor back to the halls of Minmatar government ... Arriving at the head of a large naval force [and] joined at the Pator border by a detachment of Republic Fleet warships which escorted him and his ships to Matar. After being greeted by the tribal heads and a visibly elated Karin Midular at the capitol, Shakor announced that "the force accompanying me saved many of our people in the recent hard-fought liberation." Only Karin Midular is elated to see him return. There is no mention of tribal elders being elated with his return. There is no evidence that they are happy at all he is here. The nail in the coffin of the demise of our democracy which seems to be ignored... Words by our very own Keitan Yun. Originally by: Keitan Yun he Gallente had a dream, and they called this dream democracy,This dream was given to the Republic in its infancy and held to be the right and true way for a civilized society to govern. We now stand in the shattered remains of this dream with one unavoidable truth facing us: democracy has failed. It did not fail because of lack of good leaders. In my opinion, we had one of the best. It did not fail because of a fault in the system. The success of a democratic Federation has lasted long enough to bear this out. The Gallente are gripped by neither poverty nor disenchantment. They do not suffer our lack of identity and unity. No, democracy did not fail because we did not try. On these things we cannot be faulted. Democracy failed because it was not our dream. It was not for the Minmatar. We are a people not easily led, and brothers and sisters, on a precipice we now stand. If we continue to bicker and argue amongst ourselves without heed for our people's needs, we will fall. We need change. We need strength. You say there is unity in the republic... I say there is not. What unity there is comes from the enforcement of the our tribal chiefs... and not the unity of a people united. Originally by: Scope News Service Drastically reduced numbers were in attendance at the session, following the murders last week of several parliament members along with hundreds of other Minmatar government officials. Despite the small turnout, the proceedings were frequently marred by chaos, as several issues were vocally raised with the Republic's current situation since the June 6 dissolution of parliament. Few of their queries were answered, with tribal chiefs generally stepping up to quieten down their respective members This is not Matari unity... It is Matari oligarchy. It is acts of Tyranny. Search: Sky Grunthor
Sky Grunthor The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.25 23:38:00 - [18] There have been cheering in the streets and mass celebration at the return of the Elders of old. I as well cheered and rejoiced at their return. I do not cheer at the death of democracy for it is the right and just government of a free people. If the democracy of the Gallente has failed, then the answer is not to create a dictatorship, an oligarchy or rejoice in tyrrany but rather to build a democracy that supports the dreams and ideals of the Matari. I am Minmatar. I am Free! Search: Sky Grunthor
Kitoba Legion of Dynamic Discord	Posted - 2008.06.25 23:45:00 - [19] I, for one, will vote for Sharkor. Not because it would be nescessary for him to win, but to prove those that claim that we're failing at democracy wrong, once and for all. If you have a problem with the situation, become a candidate for presidency and win the elections.
Sky Grunthor The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.25 23:50:00 - [20] Edited by: Sky Grunthor on 25/06/2008 23:52:34 Originally by: Kitoba I, for one, will vote for Sharkor. Not because it would be nescessary for him to win, but to prove those that claim that we're failing at democracy wrong, once and for all. If you have a problem with the situation, become a candidate for presidency and win the elections. Your voting for people who say democracy is failing to prove that we are not failing at democracy. Yes this makes perfect sense to me. I see now and will change my ways. Yet what other vote could you make... there is no other choice. How is there freedom of choice when the choice is removed? How is democracy maintained when the institution of popular vote has been circumvented? You are not voting for democracy... you are not voting at all in truth. I am Minmatar. I am Free! Search: Sky Grunthor
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.26 00:11:00 - [21] Originally by: Sky Grunthor If the democracy of the Gallente has failed, then the answer is not to create a dictatorship, an oligarchy or rejoice in tyrrany but rather to build a democracy that supports the dreams and ideals of the Matari. I think Ambassador Yun said it well: "There was once a Minmatar Nation that thrived before the Amarr came. I would see that Nation reborn, its tribes united. I would see us have a leader to give strength and solidarity to those united tribes. I would call upon Emissary Maleatu Shakor to return, to finish what he started. Now is the time to stand as who we are, true Minmatar." You see any deviation from the Gallente model of government to be 'tyranny', and somehow a loss of the freedom our people cherish so strongly. I take it you feel we were never free, even before the Amarr came and visited destruction upon us, until the Gallente shared with us their way of life? Gallente democracy works well for the Gallente people, and I'd never suggest to them that their way of life is bad for them. But for us, it has worked ... less well. This movement you are talking about is not a path towards the tyranny of the Amarrian Empire; it's a path back to restore our own, Matari traditions, which served us well for countless generations. We were free before the Amarr came. We will be free -- and strong -- with the Matari Nation reborn. I don't understand your complaints. -- Becq Starforged The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Orun Erajen Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.06.26 00:25:00 - [22] I cannot help but feel that the entire political situation in the cluster right now is a rather black joke in search of one of those punchlines that nobody laughs at because they find it funny, but they're scared to let anyone else know - and the Minmatar Republic's... "election" is no exception. ----- Orun Erajen LeHane Family Representative and Capsuleer Liason
Stitcher Duty.	Posted - 2008.06.26 00:29:00 - [23] Originally by: Orun Erajen I cannot help but feel that the entire political situation in the cluster right now is a rather black joke in search of one of those punchlines that nobody laughs at because they find it funny, but they're scared to let anyone else know - and the Minmatar Republic's... "election" is no exception. What would happen in the Federation if only one candidate stepped up? It's not as if Shakor has demanded a right to the premiership and has forced the rest of the Republic to stay out of his way. It's more like the rest of the Republic wants him in power so badly that the vote is just a formality to express what people already know to be true. - Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Agustus Caesar 17th Minmatar Tactical Wing	Posted - 2008.06.26 01:10:00 - [24] Edited by: Agustus Caesar on 26/06/2008 01:10:11 Originally by: Stitcher Originally by: Orun Erajen I cannot help but feel that the entire political situation in the cluster right now is a rather black joke in search of one of those punchlines that nobody laughs at because they find it funny, but they're scared to let anyone else know - and the Minmatar Republic's... "election" is no exception. What would happen in the Federation if only one candidate stepped up? It's not as if Shakor has demanded a right to the premiership and has forced the rest of the Republic to stay out of his way. It's more like the rest of the Republic wants him in power so badly that the vote is just a formality to express what people already know to be true. Maybe not, but you'd have to be blind not to realize he's the one man in the Republic most likely to turn it into a dictatorship, our Tibus Heth if you will. I will continue to do my part in holding the line, but if Shakor takes the Republic down the path I think he will I may not be holding it much longer. ----------------------------- Naturally my views are my own as I'm not my alliance's spokesman, ect.
Sky Grunthor The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.26 01:38:00 - [25] Originally by: Becq Starforged You see any deviation from the Gallente model of government to be 'tyranny', and somehow a loss of the freedom our people cherish so strongly. I take it you feel we were never free, even before the Amarr came and visited destruction upon us, until the Gallente shared with us their way of life? Gallente democracy works well for the Gallente people, and I'd never suggest to them that their way of life is bad for them. But for us, it has worked ... less well. This movement you are talking about is not a path towards the tyranny of the Amarrian Empire; it's a path back to restore our own, Matari traditions, which served us well for countless generations. I hope you are correct... I pray to the spirits that you are correct but I fear you are not. So my alarmism is alarmism with purpose... the purpose to make quite clear the consequences of the direction the government is taking. The democracy of the Federation may not fit for the Matari people but democracy itself I do not see being maintained. No evidence as yet has shown that our leaders shall find some other form. Until such time I will raise my voice and my concerns and dissent to all that will hear and listen. I am Minmatar. I am Free! Search: Sky Grunthor
Hae t'Redd Ishukone Black Watch	Posted - 2008.06.26 02:49:00 - [26] It would seem that all of the major empires will soon be ruled by a dictator of one type or another.
Veron Daerth Karos Fleet Systems	Posted - 2008.06.26 04:46:00 - [27] Indeed Pilot t'Redd, I feel that you are correct. It concerns me and quite a few citizens of the Empire as well. The hate and bloody conquest that Lady Sarum advocates is not the path that would serve the Empire best. Unfortunately, it seems that there is little we can do about it. I suggest that anyone not committed to the ideals of the coming war remain in your relative high-sec systems. Serve your Empires in other ways, there are still criminals and lawbreakers to be stopped. It isnt as glorious or heady, but it is serving your nation. Other than that, I have no other thoughts to offer you.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.26 05:13:00 - [28] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 26/06/2008 05:13:33 Originally by: Becq Starforged Why is it bad that -- in an extremely rare exhibition of Matari unity -- all of the tribes have decided that the same man represents the best leadership for the Matari people in the coming days? Because complete unity is not what we are, as a people. We are a tribal people, a people of clans, and even when we unite, is it not to make us one, it is to make us stronger in a union. All tribes acting like one tribe does not to me sound like "true Matari unity". It sounds like death and stagnation. Also, like I said elsewhere, if Shakor is the right man to the job, it would have been better for him to start his term with a clear backing of a clear vote of all clans, not what many feel is trickstery. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Kitoba Legion of Dynamic Discord	Posted - 2008.06.26 05:45:00 - [29] Originally by: Sky Grunthor Yet what other vote could you make... there is no other choice. How is there freedom of choice when the choice is removed? How is democracy maintained when the institution of popular vote has been circumvented? If 90% chose to abstain and Sharkor still claims presidency, he failed at democracy, and if we'd let him, we fail, too. I don't see that happening. Democracy, after all, is not a Gallentean invention and does only mean "Rulership of the People", not "Presidential Representative Republic" A leader who is not backed by its people is nothing else but a tyrant. Whatever may come, we certainly are in much, much less trouble than the Caldari and of course Amarr.
Kitoba Legion of Dynamic Discord	Posted - 2008.06.26 05:47:00 - [30] Originally by: Sky Grunthor I am Minmatar. I am Free! This is the very point where you're defending democracy.
Sapphrine Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.26 08:24:00 - [31] Edited by: Sapphrine on 26/06/2008 08:24:19 Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Because complete unity is not what we are, as a people. We are a tribal people, a people of clans, and even when we unite, is it not to make us one, it is to make us stronger in a union. All tribes acting like one tribe does not to me sound like "true Matari unity". It sounds like death and stagnation. Also, like I said elsewhere, if Shakor is the right man to the job, it would have been better for him to start his term with a clear backing of a clear vote of all clans, not what many feel is trickstery. Trickery is it now? And you claim not to favour that hapless wench and to be loyalists? That Shakor came back after the appauling behaviour of Midular was a small miracle. That he didn't just waltz up and declare himself in charge, something I doubt many people would have objected to and something the large military fleet he showed up with could have smoothed into existence, shows respect for the current democratic process. He stood, he was endorsed by the clans, no other representative stepped up. Would you have preferred that another representative that was not capable of the job was put up? Midular is arguably the strongest contender who could challenge for the premiership, does anyone here thing the result of the election would be any different or would you just be claiming it was a foregone conclusion any way? Much as I would like that ***** midulars head on a spike, there's no reason she should even try to stand for election, she knows she wont win. Shakor is following the legal and democratic process to be elected. What he does after elected we'll have to wait and see but I hope he gets rid of this democratic bull and restores the tribal council of old. As for unity not being our way, Elsebeth, Unity is most definitely our way. As one we are stronger, that doesn't mean all following one like drones, it means all united by single purpose and utilising our multi-faceted strengths to that goal. The amarrians saw this and feared it when they came and killed our rulers the last time round. That some of the Elders survived fills me with hope that they will once again attempt to unite us with one purpose. Unity not being our way? You make me sick sometimes.
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.26 08:30:00 - [32] Quote: "With all the tribal parties rallying behind Maleatu Shakor's bid for premiership, the outcome seems foretold. This has not dimmed the resolve of the populace to go out and vote, with vast numbers already queueing up at public voting booths to show their support." "There's a mixture of jubilance and hope now," said assembly technician Arnatt Kimkar, who yesterday was reunited with his twenty-two year old son Markus after eleven years apart. "For the first time, it feels like something could happen. You know, something real." "Public support for the lone candidate is high, although dissenting voices have been heard from several democracy activist groups, who have been vocal in their opposition to the arrangement." Are you folks getting the same news I am? Where are you getting these ridiculous ideas about 90% of the voters not backing Shakor? And given the groundswell of support he's enjoying, why would anyone want to humiliate themselves by running against a hero of the people, and drawing some miniscule fraction of the vote from those few democratic activist groups mentioned above? Madness. Next you'll be saying that unless the vote tallies are within five points, the election is somehow invalid. Are people so enamored of political mediocrity that they are frightened when a genuine living legend steps forward? -- Becq Starforged The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Rana Ash Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.06.26 09:03:00 - [33] From what i understand, Shakor had to be asked to return to the political scene. If my memory servs me right, he was tired of it all. Something about everything having to be put thru endless commities and discussed, meanwhile nothing happend. Shakor is not a man to grab power and not share, i feel that he is what we need. A strong hand to guide us thru the comming ordeals. ¦on Trinity is recruting, inquire within for details lyret dedreen
Kitoba Legion of Dynamic Discord	Posted - 2008.06.26 09:45:00 - [34] Edited by: Kitoba on 26/06/2008 09:44:46 Yes. Power to those that can wield it but don't want to.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.26 09:45:00 - [35] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 26/06/2008 09:48:41 Originally by: Sapphrine Trickery is it now? And you claim not to favour that hapless wench and to be loyalists? Sapphrine, I know we have a history and so my words are easy to misread as hostile. Note however that I did not say it is trickery of any kind. I said it would be easier and better for Speaker Shakor to lead us if people did not think it was. As we see now, everywhere and also in this thread, many people have suspicions and outright conspiracy theories about him. I do not feel that it is good for us to go into the hard times ahead with such a burden our our head of state, just as it was never good for us to have a peacetime leader with the same problem. Do we really want to repeat the division of our people over the head of state? In war time, no less? Believe me, I know from experience that you cannot make people believe a leader is honest and honorable and supported simply by telling them that it is so. People will not unite behind a leader they do not trust. And currently, as we can see from this thread too, not everyone trusts Malaetu Shakor, or the process by which he is gaining power. This situation I feel could have been easily solved by an honest and outright election between two strong candidates - an election that I have no doubtMalaetu Shakor would have, in this situation, easily won. What harm would have come from that? What harm from letting the people see with their own eyes that he is the one? Quote: That he didn't just waltz up and declare himself in charge, something I doubt many people would have objected to and something the large military fleet he showed up with could have smoothed into existence, shows respect for the current democratic process. Again, if it was unclear, I personally have no suspicion whatsoever about Speaker Shakor's honor or honesty, nor about his capability to lead us in these dark times. I would not have chosen this war, but now that it is here, we need a wartime leader. In this, I remain loyal, and I follow my tribe. My critique is aimed at those statesmen who decided that there needs not to be a real election to select him. What are they afraid of? What are you afraid of? That Malaetu Shakor, in the current situation, would have lost such an election? Quote: Unity not being our way? You make me sick sometimes. Maybe if you listened to me instead of letting your hatred towards my tribe and the Chief of my tribe clog your ears, you would be cured of that sickness. We unite behind leaders we believe in. You know, from experience, that you cannot make Matari unite behind a leader they do not believe in. While the ideal that we'd follow our tribes, follow our nation, is a grand one and something traditionalist clans still do stick to, history has shown that especially among pilots this is not always so. While we in Electus Matari will remain loyal, and while Ushra'Khan no doubt will follow Malaetu Shakor, by this forceful process of selection we are still not uniting us all, we are creating a new faction of secessionists. And that, I do not like at all. Elsebeth -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.26 09:47:00 - [36] Shakor is the man we need at this time of change. He is a Minmatar that has both been a Freedom Fighter and a Politician. He has lived in the Republic and on the fringes with the Thukker Tribe and those 'outside the fold'. He has spent time with the Jove, he has confounded slavers both with weapons and with words. Before the Uprising, before the Day of Darkness there was a Minmatar nation. The Minmatar Empire. An age where all the tribes stood together and apart, the Elders forming our differences and our unity. If Shakor is the herald of a new Minmatar Empire then I welcome his rise to power. Even if he is not I still support his ascension as the leader of our people. Long Live the Children of Matar! Join Kinda'Shujaa
Sapphrine Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.26 11:03:00 - [37] My counter point is simple Elsebeth largely already stated above. There was every opportunity for a strong candidate to stand if one existed. the fact that one didn't / does not exist (depending on your stance) is also important to notice. Given the support for Shakor is so strong at the minute and that there appears to be no one else that can challenge him reasonably in an election, what should he do? Not stand for election himself until there's a challenger? These are extraordinary times, Shakor has stood up to be the man of the hour, grudgingly. I can think of no better leader than one that is not overly keen on the power. As for the nay-sayers, I think that there is a disproportionally larger outcry among capsuleers, largely caused by a poor understanding of the political system / situation at hand. The public voices of complaint certainly seem to be a much smaller minority but I conceed readily that an election with just one candidate is only really a formality unless the election is not quorate / the majority vote RON. In all my years observing elections, I've never seen RON win however :)
Elsebeth Rhiannon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.26 11:37:00 - [38] Originally by: Sapphrine My counter point is simple Elsebeth largely already stated above. There was every opportunity for a strong candidate to stand if one existed. the fact that one didn't / does not exist (depending on your stance) is also important to notice. Given the support for Shakor is so strong at the minute and that there appears to be no one else that can challenge him reasonably in an election, what should he do? Not stand for election himself until there's a challenger? I would agree with this myself. Of course he needs to stand if he is the only one the tribes would have - it would be ridiculous not to, even akin to betrayal. What is the Republic, anyway, but the union of four tribes? Why is it here, if not because the leaders of our tribes joined together to form one nation? One called to serve must serve. We, as a nation, are not our governing form, we are not our bureaucracy, we are our clans and our tribes, and the laws and the practices are tools for our leaders. Tools not fit for the job must be changed, and a lot of what works in peace does not work in war. I have always believed that my tribe works with the best of my nation in mind. I have always believed that the leaders of my tribe have wisdom and insight that I might not have. And I still do. My problem is that it seems to me that a lot of people do not see this, or agree with it, or even believe that Speaker Shakor has the support he does. Like before for Ushra'Khan it was not enough that our tribal leaders believed in peace, now for many it is not enough that they believe in this war. Matari tend to react very badly when they perceive that they are expected to follow a leader not representing their clan or their tribe. The Republic has suffered from this, badly, for the past years. Did we really need to do it again, instead of letting the clans speak? After all, it would have been easy to demonstrate that Shakor indeed does have this support, in the current situation, and it would not have hurt anyone. Elsebeth Rhiannon -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Kitoba Legion of Dynamic Discord	Posted - 2008.06.26 11:53:00 - [39] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Matari tend to react very badly when they perceive that they are expected to follow a leader not representing their clan or their tribe. Like EM is doing now. Put up a candidate and hope for support or STFU. You are free not to follow Shakor, and you know it.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:00:00 - [40] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 26/06/2008 12:01:08 Originally by: Kitoba Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Matari tend to react very badly when they perceive that they are expected to follow a leader not representing their clan or their tribe. Like EM is doing now. Put up a candidate and hope for support or STFU. You are free not to follow Shakor, and you know it. EM? What has EM to do with this? We are not a tribal entity, we are one to support the union of tribes known as the Republic. We do not put up candidates; we follow our tribes and our nation, and in the end we will follow whoever they choose. And what exactly should I shut up about, since I have not "put up a candidate"? That I support my tribe's decision not to place a candidate? That I worry that not all people see the wisdom of following their tribes? That I think our leaders are the best ones to decide how we should be governed? Did your reading abilities turn off and your brain short-cut when I threatened your nicely categorized black and white world by agreeing with Sapphrine, maybe? -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Kade Jeekin Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:01:00 - [41] Edited by: Kade Jeekin on 26/06/2008 12:02:42 Originally by: Sastia Langon, Minmatar Process League ...Who's to say there aren't opponents willing to step up? Who's to say they haven't been intimidated into not running? Unfortunately, it's not something we, as capsuleers, can answer, despite our many military and political connections. We seem to be on the outside of these events. Trust in Maleatu Shakor's leadership of the Republic will be, as always, measured by its success, not its promises. As Karin Midular's government failed. Edit: punctuation --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
Kitoba Legion of Dynamic Discord	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:06:00 - [42] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon That I think our leaders are the best ones to decide how we should be governed? Are you Amarr or what?
Elsebeth Rhiannon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:08:00 - [43] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 26/06/2008 12:08:37 Originally by: Kitoba Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon That I think our leaders are the best ones to decide how we should be governed? Are you Amarr or what? So you think our current tribal leaders are not the best ones to decide who should be candidates and how should they lead us in the future? How do you think we should settle this, then? -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Kitoba Legion of Dynamic Discord	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:15:00 - [44] Edited by: Kitoba on 26/06/2008 12:15:04 Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 26/06/2008 12:08:37 Originally by: Kitoba Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon That I think our leaders are the best ones to decide how we should be governed? Are you Amarr or what? So you think our current tribal leaders are not the best ones to decide who should be candidates and how should they lead us in the future? How do you think we should settle this, then? I think you should decide what constitutes a tribe and what not and grow some political guts and put your applications where your mouth is.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:15:00 - [45] Originally by: Kade Jeekin Trust in Maleatu Shakor's leadership of the Republic will be, as always, measured by its success, not its promises. As Karin Midular's government failed. I'm guessing that Minmatars putting bounties on her head didn't help her. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:20:00 - [46] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 26/06/2008 12:21:58 Originally by: Kitoba Edited by: Kitoba on 26/06/2008 12:15:04 Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon So you think our current tribal leaders are not the best ones to decide who should be candidates and how should they lead us in the future? How do you think we should settle this, then? I think you should decide what constitutes a tribe and what not and grow some political guts and put your applications where your mouth is. I am sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about here. In my mind, there is no confusion at all about what constitutes a tribe - I am a member of the Sebiestor tribe and quite proudly so. I have no idea what you mean by talking about "my applications" there, either. Could you kindly try and clarify a bit? Currently it very much sounds like you are quite confused about my position, so confused that I cannot start to clarify because I do not even understand what you are trying to contest. Elsebeth -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Sky Grunthor The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:40:00 - [47] Edited by: Sky Grunthor on 26/06/2008 12:41:08 How is it that you have seen the Rise of Shakor to be not at the head of our own Navies and Thukker Fleets? He did not arrive in a shuttle, He did not arrive in a Wreath or Hoarder. He arrived in a ship of war with many other ships of war with him. Who here has seen or KNOWS what transpired in the halls of our government on that day? Who here really knows whether Shakor has forced himself on us or been invited back into office? Where is the disclosure? Where is the transparency? Where is the jubilation on the streets for Shakor? I can not equate the jubilation that I myself felt at the return of the Elders as the directed at the return of Shakor. They are not one and the same. Shakor has come to power with seeming trickery and seeming military force and threat. There is no denying this at this time. If you deny it you merely state your faith that it did not happen and not your knowledge. I call for a full disclosure. I call for the holovid tapes, the mails and letters, access to the closed sessions, embedding of reporters. I call for transparency! I am Minmatar. I am Free! Search: Sky Grunthor
Elsebeth Rhiannon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:44:00 - [48] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 26/06/2008 12:44:25 Originally by: Sky Grunthor I can not equate the jubilation that I myself felt at the return of the Elders as the directed at the return of Shakor. Well I for one did not see any Elders-with-a-capital-E nor have to this date heard one speak. Malaetu Shakor I have seen - if only on newsfeeds - and I know what and how he speaks of. My own tribe's leaders I also know and have seen, and trust. Quote: I call for a full disclosure. I call for the holovid tapes, the mails and letters, access to the closed sessions, embedding of reporters. I call for transparency! If all was published so that you could see it, all would be published so that the enemy could see it. I'd rather we'd not. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Sky Grunthor The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:49:00 - [49] I am not asking for information concerning the prosecution of the war. I am asking for information concerning the prosecution of the change of governance. What does it matter for the Ammar to see those? It matters not. Freedom does not survive in ignorance so relieve me of my ignorance. I am Minmatar. I am Free! Search: Sky Grunthor
Jasperus Dolorosa	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:04:00 - [50] Originally by: Sky Grunthor Edited by: Sky Grunthor on 26/06/2008 12:41:08 How is it that you have seen the Rise of Shakor to be not at the head of our own Navies and Thukker Fleets? He did not arrive in a shuttle, He did not arrive in a Wreath or Hoarder. He arrived in a ship of war with many other ships of war with him. Who here has seen or KNOWS what transpired in the halls of our government on that day? Who here really knows whether Shakor has forced himself on us or been invited back into office? Where is the disclosure? Where is the transparency? Where is the jubilation on the streets for Shakor? I can not equate the jubilation that I myself felt at the return of the Elders as the directed at the return of Shakor. They are not one and the same. Shakor has come to power with seeming trickery and seeming military force and threat. There is no denying this at this time. If you deny it you merely state your faith that it did not happen and not your knowledge. I call for a full disclosure. I call for the holovid tapes, the mails and letters, access to the closed sessions, embedding of reporters. I call for transparency! I am Minmatar. I am Free! The people that know are people that supported him, and they will only spew good things about him, not the truth per se. Even if they told the truth, democracy still fails. Now that the Minmatar are at war, odds are the government structure will change drastically. And if you want to see truely what this man is, no one ever knows truely where a candidate stands until they are put upon the throne. He could be a mad man for all we know. That, in turn, is very dangerous for a time like this. Although you need someone to lead you through this mess, it could be the thing that kills you.
Kitoba Legion of Dynamic Discord	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:09:00 - [51] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Originally by: Kitoba I think you should decide what constitutes a tribe and what not and grow some political guts and put your applications where your mouth is. I am sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about here. In my mind, there is no confusion at all about what constitutes a tribe - I am a member of the Sebiestor tribe and quite proudly so. I have no idea what you mean by talking about "my applications" there, either. Could you kindly try and clarify a bit? Currently it very much sounds like you are quite confused about my position, so confused that I cannot start to clarify because I do not even understand what you are trying to contest. Elsebeth I say "you" in the sense of "you guys from EM", not in the sense of "Elsebeth". Legally and by blood, I am a Brutor. I am a Vherokior by upbringing, which makes me a Starkmannir in some sense. If you trace all these splits to their root, I'm a Terran. I am also a citizen of the Republic, as are most of the non-capsuleers of my corp. As we share a common goal and common resources, we consider ourselves to be a clan, and as we come from a multitude of tribes and races, those that care can't help but to find our tribal identity first in our corp and then in matar and other like-minded people. You fail to see that by creating a common culture, EM also created a new tribe. If you don't like Shakor or the circumstances, get your applications out, get yourselves elected and hope that UK doesn't laugh their asses off. I think they are one of those very few that really could oppose him.
Kitoba Legion of Dynamic Discord	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:16:00 - [52] Originally by: Jasperus Dolorosa And if you want to see truely what this man is, no one ever knows truely where a candidate stands until they are put upon the throne. He could be a mad man for all we know. That, in turn, is very dangerous for a time like this. Although you need someone to lead you through this mess, it could be the thing that kills you. You shouldn't project the failures of your culture onto others, it clutters up your mind.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:18:00 - [53] Originally by: Kitoba You fail to see that by creating a common culture, EM also created a new tribe. What a laughable idea! No wonder I did not understand you. If you truly believe that in a couple of short years a couple of individuals from various backgrounds and without common tradition could form a tribe, you really have no idea what it is to belong to one. What little you tell about your background - Brutor by blood, Vherokior by upbringing - probably explains this. I am sorry for the hardship, and I commend your efforts to build a new clan to replace the one who taught you so poorly. May Fate smile on you and yours. EM a tribe, indeed. Quote: If you don't like Shakor or the circumstances, And this is where your reading does fail you. Elsebeth, of Rhiannon, born Rhiannon Member of the Sebiestor Tribe Citizen of the Republic -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Kitoba Legion of Dynamic Discord	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:38:00 - [54] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon a couple of short years a couple of individuals from various backgrounds and without common tradition The timespan depends on the groups unity, its number is only significant to its political power, and if you truly believe there aren't common traditions in different Matar tribes, I pity you. Have a look beyond tattoo shapes and colours. "What little did you tell about your background"... did you ask? Are you male, lying in bed next to me, one of the very few occasions I would tell about my background? I think not.
Makkar	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:42:00 - [55] If capsuleers are actually given the chance to vote in this election, then my vote will go for Shakor. He clearly has the support of the majority if not all of the tribal Elders, (as not to be confused with Republic tribal representatives,) and, it seems, the outgoing prime minister. The situation we find ourselves in politically is unprecedented, but not necessarily illegal or unconstitutional as far as I'm aware. Once again, I challenge anyone to produce a copy of the Minmatar Republic Constitution, or more specifically its electoral laws, to prove anything legally untoward is occurring. By nature, Minmatar are fractious and prone to violent displays of independant resolve - this is our strength, as much as it is our weakness. However, when under fire, this changes. There is an old proverb I learned in the slave camps, relating to the seperate concept of tribes, and that of Minmatar as a whole. "My tribe against your tribe; our tribes against theirs; all tribes against the outsider." The Minmatar of the Republic, long kept cowed and blindfolded by misguided apologist politics whilst their traditions were slowly erroded away, will find their voice soon, and Karin Midular will add her voice, too. Who's name do you think they will cry?
Elsebeth Rhiannon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:07:00 - [56] Originally by: Kitoba Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon a couple of short years a couple of individuals from various backgrounds and without common tradition The timespan depends on the groups unity, its number is only significant to its political power, and if you truly believe there aren't common traditions in different Matar tribes, I pity you. Have a look beyond tattoo shapes and colours. Of course there are common traditions, and even if there were not, each true clan creates its own, anyway. Like I said, I commend your effort in establishing a new clan to replace the one that did not work out for you, and wish you the best of luck. It would be foolish, though, to believe that something that is mere years old could be anything but a seed for a clan, let alone a whole tribe. Clans are a thing of family, and anything less than at least three or four generations old cannot really be considered established as one. And tribes go even beyond that. "Tradition" is not only about customs and beliefs. You cannot learn traditions from a book, and you cannot establish them by simply deciding that something now is traditional. Tradition is about continuity, about heritage, about deep roots in the wisdom that becomes with a long history. Quote: "What little did you tell about your background"... did you ask? Are you male, lying in bed next to me, one of the very few occasions I would tell about my background? I think not. I meant no offense with that. I was only referring to the bit that you volunteered - not demanding more. My sincere apologies for any perceived insult. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:08:00 - [57] Originally by: Makkar Who's name do you think they will cry? It is my hope that it will not be a name of a person, but of a place, the symbol of home and freedom: Matar. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Kitoba Legion of Dynamic Discord	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:21:00 - [58] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon "Tradition" is not only about customs and beliefs. You cannot learn traditions from a book, and you cannot establish them by simply deciding that something now is traditional. Tradition is about continuity, about heritage, about deep roots in the wisdom that becomes with a long history. Tradition is passing on the fire, not worshipping the ashes.
Makkar	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:25:00 - [59] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Originally by: Makkar Who's name do you think they will cry? It is my hope that it will not be a name of a person, but of a place, the symbol of home and freedom: Matar. I echo your sentiment, Elsebeth, rife with patriotic imagery as it is, however; in my experience, planets make exeptionally poor strategists and tacticians, and are even worse at putting their point across when parliament's in session.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:26:00 - [60] Originally by: Kitoba Tradition is passing on the fire, not worshipping the ashes. Don't mistake the spark for the fire.
Kitoba Legion of Dynamic Discord	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:29:00 - [61] Originally by: Arkady Sadik Don't mistake the spark for the fire. The spark is the fire. But I think that's too deep for galnet.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:32:00 - [62] Originally by: Makkar I echo your sentiment, Elsebeth, rife with patriotic imagery as it is, however; in my experience, planets make exeptionally poor strategists and tacticians, and are even worse at putting their point across when parliament's in session. Symbols need the help of actual people to be of use, that much is true. But I hope that our people will never become dependent on only one person to do it all. Kitoba: let's talk about this again when your fire has been burning for some time, and your second generation is old enough to pass it on to. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Makkar	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:55:00 - [63] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Symbols need the help of actual people to be of use, that much is true. But I hope that our people will never become dependent on only one person to do it all. Funny thing about symbols, especially abstract ones representing something as intangeable as a concept or an ideal, is that they mean different things to different people. Matar on her own does not serve as a rallying cry for all Minmatar, (although I concede it strikes more of a chord in the hearts of many Minmatar than a bloodied fist does,) however; Malaetu Shakor's vision of Matar and what it stands for just might prove to be enough of a symbol to unite behind.
Nachshon 17th Minmatar Tactical Wing	Posted - 2008.06.26 15:27:00 - [64] As much as I would approve of Evanda Char running for Prime Minister, EM is not a tribe. Shakor has followed the democratic procedure. However, I believe that we must be watchful to ensure that this uncontested vote turns out to be a fluke. This is the duty of citizens in a democracy. ____________________________________ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship. The True Meaning of Freedom My v
Hygelic Assat	Posted - 2008.06.27 02:43:00 - [65] A veiw from the Kingdom. It pains me to see so many going through so much for so little. The sooner the Republic stabilizes the better. A Republic in crisis is little distraction for the Empire. A focused Empire is bad for the Kingdom. Perhaps when the Minmatar are unified under a strong capable leader unhindered by democratic restrictions; and the Empire is ruled by an Empress that sees them as subhuman chattel; then at last we can all settle in and really gut each other. Guns anyone? Buy one get the second one free!!!
Vakor Shaku	Posted - 2008.06.27 04:37:00 - [66] grunts Maybe with him in charge the Republic will grow some balls and realize what is going on..

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