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Shadarle	Posted - 2008.06.26 00:16:00 - [1] Did anyone notice they fixed T2 Ammo BPO's? The copy time used to be faster than the build time, by a large margin. It no longer is. Wonder how long till the market corrects itself.
Riffster Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.06.26 00:20:00 - [2] /goes crazy buying t2 ammo /realizes he might have been a little stupid No, I wouldn't have known and probably will never fully know if this statement is true. Hopefully someone can link some proof of this. :D:D --- Its a trap! But I'm cool with that.
Invisible Hand	Posted - 2008.06.26 00:43:00 - [3] Yep, I've seen this on two different t2 ammo BPOs. It happened in the initial EA patch (undocumented, as usual) It's still barely worth building them at the moment though
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.06.26 01:18:00 - [4] Quote: Did anyone notice they fixed T2 Ammo BPO's? The copy time used to be faster than the build time, by a large margin. It no longer is. Wonder how long till the market corrects itself. Stuffed if I can find the link, but I remember arguing with someone trying to sell T2 Ammo BPO's for just that reason, with my claim being it was a bug that CCP would fix Good to see they shored up the inconsistency
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.06.26 02:42:00 - [5] Well, their value was dropping very fast because the ammo was becoming worthless... so the fix is actually going to raise the value imo. I actually have one of the most valuable T2 Ammo BPO's and I love this change :)
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.06.26 02:45:00 - [6] Originally by: Shadarle Well, their value was dropping very fast because the ammo was becoming worthless... so the fix is actually going to raise the value imo. Changing of the build times or research times has not influence on the uselessness of T2 ammo. Thus the change in value is purely one in the mind of the beholder. Good lord, I'm speaking like Shadarle to Shadarle. Who are you and where have you taken the real Shad? To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.06.26 02:49:00 - [7] Quote: Well, their value was dropping very fast because the ammo was becoming worthless... so the fix is actually going to raise the value imo. I actually have one of the most valuable T2 Ammo BPO's and I love this change :) That's a fair call, it'll slow down the supply of Ammo from BPCs being created instead of just manufacturing. I still think they're useless tho Improve Market Competition!
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.06.26 02:54:00 - [8] You'd be amazed how much of it people buy.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.06.26 03:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Shadarle You'd be amazed how much of it people buy. Thinking I don't know is just plain silly. I let Athre build all she wants from my T2 ammo bpos and she makes isk from them. It is just one of those markets I don't have the time nor patience for so I happily encourage her in her play with it. I only hope she quickly realizes that her time and effort is better spent on less stressful and more profitable activities. Well, I don't hope too much as it would mean I'd be giving up some of my fun time if she did. (I never compete with a corpmate even if they enter my market. I just go somewhere else and make eve more isk. ) To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.06.26 03:03:00 - [10] Like I said, I have a very profitable BPO. I snagged it a whle back and through all the changes it makes the same yearly profit today as it did 1 years ago or more :)

Petyr Baelich Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2008.06.26 03:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Shadarle I actually have one of the most valuable T2 Ammo BPO's and I love this change :) There, Shar... Shadarle wasn't posting irrationally; he wants to either spark interest in T2 ammo sales, or spark interest in researched T2 ammo BPO values should he wish to sell out. :)
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2008.06.26 03:12:00 - [12] Barrage perhaps?
Athre The Higher Standard	Posted - 2008.06.26 03:15:00 - [13] Originally by: Shar Tegral I let Athre build all she wants from my T2 ammo bpos and she makes isk from them. It is just one of those markets I don't have the time nor patience for so I happily encourage her in her play with it. Oh Shar, its but 1 T2 missle and all I am doing is plunking down X in a new station every time I get to the threshold. I can see one of the three stations will need to be replenished, till then let it ride :) Besides, its all part of diversification. You know I have other isk making things and while I'm at the Labs, I just throw the missles into the cooker too ;)
Danari Viper Squad Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.26 11:15:00 - [14] If Shadarle is saying it you know the exact opposite is true. The coin toss in a Shad post is whether it's misinformation or disinformation.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.06.26 18:18:00 - [15] Originally by: Danari The coin toss in a Shad post is whether it's misinformation or disinformation. No coin toss at all. Shadarle has a tell. 10m isk to the person who can tell me why I know this thread is disinformation? (Not counting Shadarle, though I suspect like most he doesn't notice his own tell.) To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Mazzarins Demise Profit Development and Research Association	Posted - 2008.06.26 18:27:00 - [16] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Danari The coin toss in a Shad post is whether it's misinformation or disinformation. No coin toss at all. Shadarle has a tell. 10m isk to the person who can tell me why I know this thread is disinformation? (Not counting Shadarle, though I suspect like most he doesn't notice his own tell.) His information is vague and lacks specificity?
Maestro Del'Tirith Del'Tirith Holdings	Posted - 2008.06.26 18:37:00 - [17] He worded the post as questions. Normally he just states things
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.06.26 22:23:00 - [18] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Danari The coin toss in a Shad post is whether it's misinformation or disinformation. No coin toss at all. Shadarle has a tell. 10m isk to the person who can tell me why I know this thread is disinformation? (Not counting Shadarle, though I suspect like most he doesn't notice his own tell.) I don't need 10m that badly to let everyone in on it. What's the ROI on some of the more wanted BPO's now? Something like 2 years?
Clair Bear	Posted - 2008.06.27 05:19:00 - [19] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria What's the ROI on some of the more wanted BPO's now? Something like 2 years? What's the ROI on a Guardian Vexor? I think at this point T2 BPOs are a rarity speculation on an irreplaceable limited edition collector's item. It's hard to compute the ROI since the value of that BPO a year or two from now could be much higher or much lower and based partly on a cycle of buffs and nerfs. And yeah, increased opportunity cost of t2 ammo making it even less cost/benefit competitive with faction is something you view as a good thing? Dude, I want the rubber doormats YOU are smoking, they're much better than mine.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.06.28 17:04:00 - [20] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria What's the ROI on some of the more wanted BPO's now? Something like 2 years? Well, most semi-decent T2 Ammo BPO's sold for 1 bil per BPO since CCP seeded the extra T2 BPO's. Then a few good ones sold for 2-4 bil. I have one I payed 1 bil for, one I payed 3 bil for. If I produced based on todays prices and calculations I would earn 1 bil per year and 3 bil per year on those BPO's I own. Considering people are now paying anywhere from 2-5 times yearly profit on T2 BPO's that means my yearly profit hasn't dropped and my investment has at least doubled in value. So while perhaps some T2 ammo BPO's suck, others definitely do not. I agree the ammo is useless, but people actually buy it in fairly large quantities for some reason. So I think the general consensus that T2 Ammo BPO's are not worth owning is quite mistaken. Nothing I've said is a lie so far, though I wouldn't say I don't have alternative motives... but then who doesn't when they post a speculation thread? I'll leave it up to others to decide what they think my motivation is.

Danari Viper Squad Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.30 10:06:00 - [21] Edited by: Danari on 30/06/2008 10:07:55 Quit the shenanigans shadfail. You know very well I sold a pair of t2 crystals for what your crap ammo bpo will make in about six years and you're just trying to give it credibility so you can dump it. "The coin-toss in any shadpost is whether it's disinformation or misinformation" -- Danari, "Why I'm the smartest guy in Eve", 2008.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.06.30 13:10:00 - [22] Originally by: Maestro Del'Tirith He worded the post as questions. Normally he just states things Pretty much. In dissection, it was short, sweet, and to the point. Shadarle is intelligent and experienced with the eve market. You can rest assured that when he elaborates he is usually engaged in "intellectual honesty". Another Shadarle common practice is to include his feelings (not going to discuss the validity) of superiority in his posts as well as a healthy dollop of contempt for most other human beings. The starting post was plainly said, straight forward, offered no opinion or demonstrated no bias, was humble (for Shad), and didn't put anyone down. Ding, ding, ding - We have a manipulation post.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.07.01 17:52:00 - [23] Edited by: Shadarle on 01/07/2008 17:53:28 Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Maestro Del'Tirith He worded the post as questions. Normally he just states things Pretty much. In dissection, it was short, sweet, and to the point. Shadarle is intelligent and experienced with the eve market. You can rest assured that when he elaborates he is usually engaged in "intellectual honesty". Another Shadarle common practice is to include his feelings (not going to discuss the validity) of superiority in his posts as well as a healthy dollop of contempt for most other human beings. The starting post was plainly said, straight forward, offered no opinion or demonstrated no bias, was humble (for Shad), and didn't put anyone down. Ding, ding, ding - We have a manipulation post. Haha. Interestingly enough I actually didn't even know which way I wanted to manipulate things in this case... so instead I figured I'd just make a straight post to see what people were thinking about or if they even knew about the change. I'm glad people do keep track of my posts enough to know when I am generally trying to manipulate things But I always love Danari's posts, he dislikes me with quite a passion... unfortunately he isn't even fun to argue with as he can't spew vitriol well. He should take some lessons from Taikun in that respect. All of Danari's posts are flame-bait, he forgets to include the one or two sentences of semi-real content so that he can claim he was "on topic". I don't even have a slight clue what he is talking about with his T2 Crystals, perhaps someone else here does though. I doubt he even knows which T2 ammo bpo's I own, not that I am trying to keep it a secret, I just doubt he has any real information on me or my activities. But then all those ravens have probably driven him mad by now.
Maestro Del'Tirith Del'Tirith Holdings	Posted - 2008.07.01 18:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Maestro Del'Tirith He worded the post as questions. Normally he just states things Pretty much. So does that mean I win the 10m? I'm rich!
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.07.02 03:32:00 - [25] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Kazzac Elentria What's the ROI on some of the more wanted BPO's now? Something like 2 years? Well, most semi-decent T2 Ammo BPO's sold for 1 bil per BPO since CCP seeded the extra T2 BPO's. Then a few good ones sold for 2-4 bil. I have one I payed 1 bil for, one I payed 3 bil for. If I produced based on todays prices and calculations I would earn 1 bil per year and 3 bil per year on those BPO's I own. Considering people are now paying anywhere from 2-5 times yearly profit on T2 BPO's that means my yearly profit hasn't dropped and my investment has at least doubled in value. So while perhaps some T2 ammo BPO's suck, others definitely do not. I agree the ammo is useless, but people actually buy it in fairly large quantities for some reason. So I think the general consensus that T2 Ammo BPO's are not worth owning is quite mistaken. Nothing I've said is a lie so far, though I wouldn't say I don't have alternative motives... but then who doesn't when they post a speculation thread? I'll leave it up to others to decide what they think my motivation is. Ohh I don't doubt that some are still worth owning. At this point it's pretty worthless to 'own' ANY t2 BPO ammo included in that mix IMHO. Why do people still by T2 ammo though? Your guess is good as mine. I make a pretty good mint buying faction ammo off the market, moving it 2 jumps and reselling it for a 40% markup. Lazy knows no bounds apparently
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.07.02 03:42:00 - [26] Well, with the T2 ammo selling for 100-400isk a shot (or less) it is a good bit cheaper than faction ammo is. I guess some people want to do more dmg than regular ammo and don't mind the penalties... so they might as well use T2 ammo instead of faction and save some money... shrug Or they might not know any better... never underestimate the stupidity of the masses.
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:36:00 - [27] I spit on these T2 ammo BPO holders. T1 is plenty profitable, most T1 ammo on Researched BPOs have a 120% margin :) And some have a 450% margin Of cause it helps when you have someone churning out millions of units a day across multiple regions and all you need to do is jump about 10 jumps a day to check 5 regions and update the prices :) DUN Dun dun.... T1 mega store ftw! Amarr for Life
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.07.02 21:46:00 - [28] Margins really mean nothing. 120% margins on a 30isk item is far less impressive than a 10% margin on a 100 mil item. I got out of T1 ammo about 20 months ago now or so. Sure it was nice margins, but even when I was just starting out it didn't provide the levels of profit required to make the effort worth it. Even if you produce T1 ammo 100% of the the time and use every production slot a character has doing so it still doesn't provide enough profit imo. Not to justify using up all those slots on it. But that's why it's margins are so high, because most people agree with me. That's what makes the game go round... everyone has different ideas on what reasonable profit levels are. The more people that move away from ammo production the more profit there is for those who stay.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:38:00 - [29] Quote: Margins really mean nothing. 120% margins on a 30isk item is far less impressive than a 10% margin on a 100 mil item. This. Though if you're a trader, margin is important (you buy a shuttle for 6000 isk and sell it for 20000, great, do that for all your ISK and increase your wallet by 400ish%). As an industrialist, it's not-so. I buy 2000 units of trit for 6000 isk. I manufacture a shuttle and sell it for 20000, great, that's 400ish% margin. But at a speed of about 1 shuttle per,, is it 2 hours? that's bugger all isk per minute. Quote: everyone has different ideas on what reasonable profit levels are And this. As a manufacturer, I rated good profit by ISK per minute, which for me was 2000-4000 isk per minute. I could either manufacture a Plasma thruster at 38000 which sold for 42000 (2 min build time, 110% margin,2000 isk per minute) or a Microprocessor for 5000 which sold at 8000 (2 min build time, 180% margin, 1500 isk per minute). I'm gonna wind up with a lot more gross profit manufacturing the Plasma thrusters rather than the microprocessors. But a trader will have success if he buys the microprocessors for 5000 and sells em at 8000. Improve Market Competition!
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2008.07.03 05:01:00 - [30] T2 Ammo is crap and/or broken anyway in my opinion. I wouldn't have thought many people produce it due to a lack of demand for it? Deus Ex Machina ~ Eve Corp, Web Design, Blog



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