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NCTaark	Posted - 2008.06.26 15:00:00 - [1] Economy: Currently planets are pretty much just warp able objects with the cool stuff in orbit around them (belts & moons). Issue. Flying to Empire to pick up NPC manufactured POS fuel / maintenance resources. What if we (pod pilots) could scan planets (and maybe moons too) for the resources required to run stations. Then had the ability to set up factories or mines in the confines of a Tower POS or an Outpost to run and control those terrestrial structures, perhaps multiple types of structures per orbital body based on the resources on that body and the type of POS available. This is a HUGE can of worms but if it is possible it could add a massive new dimension to the player based economy. Uranium mines: where you can actually use those slaves that fall out of mission objectives, or if your a softy you could use robotics instead. Robotics Factories: suitable locations for establishing factories to make these little gadgets. Plus all the components that go in them that are currently included in NPC markets (electronics which can be used for T2, metals, microchips, silicates etc) Cattle Ranches: Because everyone in their right mind just wants a good steak every once in a while. (outpost maintenance anyone? what do all those docked pilots eat?) Exotic Dance Club: well they need some where to work. And putting them in jet cans is such a waste. Oxygen distillery: POS need it, very few planets have it in abundance. That just names a few potentials. All the fuels and NPC produced items, could become player produced. Additionally create an EMPIRE demand for these products based on maintenance requirements for those stations. Let shortage and the economy determine purchase prices. While some goods are manufactured in empire they are 'not sufficient' to cover the demands of billions of the empire's residents. Basically any item that is demanded or produced by the 4 major Empires (or player alliances) to feed and maintain their citizenry and stations, if it can be produced in null-sec; could create a much more vibrant and profitable economy. The advantage to this is that is adds much greater depth to the economy, and encouraged development of nullsec. This could add a new level of sustainability to 0.0 life and make alliances and factions truly independent. In addition to sustainable life in Nullec it would serve to tie the alliances to the empires via supply and demand. The disadvantage is that we would all need to train a lot of new skills if implemented, I don't know how to run a uranium mine now or a cattle ranch. Additionally it is a MASSIVE development project for CCP, probably on par with other major depolyments. Comments please. Taark
Level4 Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2008.06.26 18:26:00 - [2] How about combining this with the need to buy planet property first ? the real-estate market this would produce could excite once more the industrial playerbase.. Who doesnt want to own x% of Jita 4-4 :P similar to renting offices today. On a more serious note, owning a property would need to mean something.. and your suggestion answers that nicely.
NCTaark	Posted - 2008.06.26 18:54:00 - [3] I have spent a lot of time in nullsec in the past, a significant portion of my EVE career. One of our biggest issues was that 'theoretically' we were a self sustaining alliance, we could build our ships, weapons and bullets, but we had to run to empire for everything from oxygen to robotics, in order to prop up that industry. If I was a self-sufficient mega corporation (which is how I have viewed alliances and their corps) I would want to build additional assets in my territory that make me as self sustaining as possible. If Pilots had a way to 'create' their own logistics base it would add new dimensions to: the Supply and Demand (Pilot and NPC) Empire Economy, Inter Alliance Warfare, Combat Logistics, and Trade Logistics. If NPC stations began demanding products for their maintenance (in addition to what they buy now) that could also serve to encourage more trade in empire and more profits in Nullsec. Other then the size of the perspective sandwich; something like this could add a lot of 'color' to the universe.
Tesseract d'Urberville Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord	Posted - 2008.06.26 19:17:00 - [4] Interesting idea. This would take a lot of time to flesh out and implement, but it's an interesting idea and worth talking more about. --------------------------------- Thomas Hardy is going to eat your brains.
Tribalist	Posted - 2008.06.26 23:25:00 - [5] Edited by: Tribalist on 26/06/2008 23:26:13 Would add a whole new Dimention to the game, what about the stations that orbit the planets in high sec? Would the NPC's who own those stations also own said planet and would you be able to put up a Station in High sec if you could get 100% ownership of a planet? Tribe Tribe Friends don't let friends drive Imicus
Ilandrin Yona Elemental Ventures	Posted - 2008.06.26 23:36:00 - [6] Excellent ideas. We should definitely be able to exploit planetary resources and the alliances in 0.0 should definitely be able to become self sufficient. I support this. ------------------------------------- Ilandrin Yona - Intaki Industrialist Director, Elemental Ventures Corporation
Rakaim Rising Federation	Posted - 2008.06.27 08:16:00 - [7] Edited by: Rakaim on 27/06/2008 08:15:54 Planet Exploitation? It's about time!! It's been lightly talked about in the "DrawingBoard Fourm" as a one-day-to-be Eve minie RTS or something like that. I'll get the Direct Quote. ----------- FROM THE DRAWING BOARD: Simple Planetary Interaction The probable first step for planetary interaction, where you can manage planets from a Station or other suitable structure. Moderate Planetary Interaction This would feature flying over planets and interacting with the planetary surface. This will likely follow on from Simple Planetary Interaction. Full Planetary Interaction Planetary RTS or other hybrid game form. Yarr. The long-term crazy professor phase of planetary interaction. ------------ I have long drempt of the day this could become a reality. Exploitation of Planet services (as this thread suggests) Feels like the first step in this chain.
Venkul Mul	Posted - 2008.06.27 09:48:00 - [8] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 27/06/2008 09:48:09 Interesting idea, but if implemented it should work both way. It is cutting the umbilical cord between 0.0 and empire as 0.0 will no more need any empire resource, but then empire should stop feeding 0.0 entities with free isks. The only empire resource will become the isk so it stop self spawning in 0.0 in the form of bounties and subsidized insurance. The isk spawned by rats should be substituted by better drops, so that the the ratter final reward will stay the same. Doing that 0.0 entities will become rich(er) in assets, but cash poor, so keeping a reason to trade in empire (converting the assets in isks). If that is not done each 0.0 big alliance will become a totally self sustaining entity without any need of external relations.
NCTaark	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:07:00 - [9] You (all) raise some interesting points. This would be a HUGE can of worms. But I think that it could integrate nicely with some of the planned walking stations and yes I have read the planetary interaction but I think that a more 'precise' use for terrestrial resources would add detail to the EVEverse. Your point about "cutting the umbilical cord between 0.0 and empire" is a head scratcher, now that I have had more time to think about its implications. I think that as a counter balance to the desire to be self sufficient that the monetary reward for marketing goods and services (station parts and food stuffs) to the Faction (NPC) stations for their station æmaintenanceÆ. There would probably need to be a strong demand incentive in empire for those goods. One method to handle the issue of 0.0 divorcing itself totally from empire space could be the structures needed for terrestrial structures are only produced in stations like Caldari Steel or ChemTech; to build a greater role for those racial corps in the player economy. Use a system similar to the one used now for control tower parts where they are best purchased in Empire then transported to Nullsec. I think that a greater roll for the lesser known corps could make them more relevant in the EVEverse, and that would be a good nice side effect. A second solution could be that rarity per region be utilized to assist trade. Similar to the moon mineral rarity, not a ridged hierarchy but more like the racial æpreferenceÆ for certain results some areas just have a little more of some thing, like uranium vs. oxygen, rarities being reversed over regions. Thank you all for your positive feed back so far.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:29:00 - [10] Interesting idea that has potential. The MD forum goers have been calling for a removal of nearly all NPC related items in favor of everything player made. This could work.

Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.06.27 19:14:00 - [11] I've advocated for this for a long time, actually. Less reliance on empire? Good. Fewer NPC-sold goods? Even better. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.06.27 19:18:00 - [12] Originally by: NCTaark You (all) raise some interesting points. This would be a HUGE can of worms. But I think that it could integrate nicely with some of the planned walking stations and yes I have read the planetary interaction but I think that a more 'precise' use for terrestrial resources would add detail to the EVEverse. Your point about "cutting the umbilical cord between 0.0 and empire" is a head scratcher, now that I have had more time to think about its implications. I think that as a counter balance to the desire to be self sufficient that the monetary reward for marketing goods and services (station parts and food stuffs) to the Faction (NPC) stations for their station æmaintenanceÆ. There would probably need to be a strong demand incentive in empire for those goods. One method to handle the issue of 0.0 divorcing itself totally from empire space could be the structures needed for terrestrial structures are only produced in stations like Caldari Steel or ChemTech; to build a greater role for those racial corps in the player economy. Use a system similar to the one used now for control tower parts where they are best purchased in Empire then transported to Nullsec. I think that a greater roll for the lesser known corps could make them more relevant in the EVEverse, and that would be a good nice side effect. A second solution could be that rarity per region be utilized to assist trade. Similar to the moon mineral rarity, not a ridged hierarchy but more like the racial æpreferenceÆ for certain results some areas just have a little more of some thing, like uranium vs. oxygen, rarities being reversed over regions. Thank you all for your positive feed back so far. Lot of thought to put into this development, but definitely a route to follow. The only thing to avoid it to transform what now is a isk sink (NPC produced POS fuels) in a isk faucet.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:31:00 - [13] Edited by: MotherMoon on 27/06/2008 20:30:46 I fully support this subject. I have posted many threads in the back and while ideas may differ here and there planets NEED to become something important in eve. They are scources of all life and raw minerals more than any moon or outpost. and if you vote for me in the next CSM election I'll make sure planets are on the voting agenda for the CSM meetings.
ToxicFire Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:45:00 - [14] ------------------------------------------ Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.28 20:10:00 - [15] Definitely agree that the importance of planets in each system is greatly below where it should be, and that they should be far more significant than just acting as a warpable celestial object as they are currently. Allowing inhabited worlds to be developed in order to generate POS components, strontium, jump drive fuel and other necessary consumables for the sovereign alliance would allow for interesting developments, and this could additionally provide a target for small gang logistics disruption. For example NPC hauler spawns could automatically deliver fuel to control towers but be vulnerable to hostiles intercepting and popping them, or planetary industrial centres could be hacked or targeted to shut them down for a given period. Such a move could see the development of whole new specialisations. For example, an alliance could grant players the planetary governor role (which would require a new set of administrative skills to be trained, something which could boost the value of the currently neglected Charisma statline) and give them control over a particular planet to go and Sim-City it up, managing its output and needs to produce goods as the alliance required. This would reduce the need for NPC sell orders and the market distortions they sometimes create, as well as allowing space-holding player alliances to loosen if not cut the umbilical cord of NPC Empire dependency and function more like sovereign powers in their own right. It would be great if we saw the introduction of spaceports on the planetary surface which functioned as cheap mini-outposts (with fewer station services and perhaps limited hangar space) to make neglected areas of space habitable without having to plonk down 30b or so for an outpost - and who wouldn't want to build their very own Mos Eisley, perhaps complete with cantina band? Ultimately though, inhabited planets should also be the key to system sovereignty. Look at the recent background writing on the capture of New Caldari. We didn't get fiction about stront timing or station ping-pong. The Caldari showed up around the planet with a load of dropships and deployed troops to the planetary surface to capture it, and frankly that's a far cooler method of taking a system than playing 'who can anchor the most giant space needles'.
NCTaark	Posted - 2008.06.29 01:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Scatim Helicon "who wouldn't want to build their very own Mos Eisley, perhaps complete with cantina band?" You can keep the band, give me the Exotic Dancers! I'm not actually referring to the ice products; there is a player source of that. What I would be interested in would be items like robotics, oxygen, uranium and the other 'station maintenance' items. Things that would have a logical industrial tail before they got to us, as pilots. I would like to see the ability to control that logistics tail. I think that NPC demand and supply of goods and services is important. I do not advocate dropping all NPC supply, just creating a parallel system for pilots to create the same types of maintenance related items currently only 'created' and sold in empire and NPC stations now. I think that there are two issues with this. o First, the most delicate balancing act for a massive change like this would be balancing the economic price shocks. If a system like what I am talking about is ever implemented there would need to be NPC supply or the economy would go absolutely berserk, cattle would cost 1,000,000 isk each (if demanded as food stocks on stations, people would run missions just looking for that precious space cattle can) and Oxygen or Robotics could end up costing 10x or 50x its current rate which would unbalance POS supplies and costs all over EVE, which effects Moon minerals then reactions and T2 parts and then everything advanced. o Second, developing then seeding the system and its associated resources, both the new factories, parts, BPOs, skills and the physical resources, available on orbital bodies are going to probably be a chore on par with all three of the Revelations Trinity expansions. Some remedies for this could be to make land 'leases' available on Empire and lowsec worlds, (the more secure the higher the price?) similar to station offices, or charged as 'extras' to offices in local NPC stations. Maintaining NPC supply would be inline with story line, after all if I was CEO of the Caldari Navy (or insert your favorite) I would want to have someone in my faction involved in producing the fuels I need to run my stations. Adding a level of station demand for maintenance commodities could also be a nice way to start traders with some basics early in their careers. The possibilities are immense with something like this. Taark
Artemis Rose Eleckrostatik	Posted - 2008.06.29 10:02:00 - [17] A lot of good thoughts here.
Siebenthal	Posted - 2008.07.15 16:05:00 - [18]
Tzujeih GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.15 17:59:00 - [19] Thumbs down, the game needs npc sold isk exits. I would support the idea of something useful being harvested from planets and stars though, just not the proposal of being fully self reliant without need of isk exiting the system.
Garion Avarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.	Posted - 2008.07.15 18:45:00 - [20] Edited by: Garion Avarr on 15/07/2008 18:45:29 It does open a can of worms, and needs to be thought about carefully. In some respects, it is nice to have some things still be dependant upon NPC supply -- not everything, but some. The empires are the big civilized and developed powers, 0.0 is the fronteer, the colonies, even if some of the alliances are huge powers, they're still partially dependant upon the empires. Which is perhaps as it should be. Still, it is quite an interesting idea, and because I think it deserves at least consideration if not implimentation, it gets my support. The RP possibilities of player alliances using slaves in huge numbers to run those factories is reason enough alone. That could be fun. ________________________________ This is not a signature.

Ivena Amethyst	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:25:00 - [21] the raw materials are obviously in existance since the products exists, but they are clearly not in moons or belts so planets would be the logical place to look fore them yes this would make planets something more then just a "it looks good and it 'should' exist in space" thing
Molock Saronen	Posted - 2008.07.16 11:53:00 - [22]
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.07.16 16:18:00 - [23] factories on planets that are the only place the bpos for building stuff like mechanical parts and robitics would be nice. It would be kind of interesting to have a terrstiral industry that doesn't affect slots for manufacturing in space.
Constantin I Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.16 16:54:00 - [24] Well, i posted a similar idea here Maybe the 2 ideas can be combined in something that it will be taken in considerations by the devs.
Arthmandar Valikari	Posted - 2008.07.17 20:32:00 - [25] This poster has interesting and fun ideas. I think these ideas could easily be extended to the empire stations that exist as well (as in, it turns out that Jita IV-4 (the planet) is able to produce a lot of high-tech trade goods... so those are available cheap in the IV-4 station, etc.) Kind of like TradeWars 2002 (hahahaha, sweet BBS games...) brought to Eve. But it makes RP sense, and makes trade-good hauling a potentially useful and interesting miniprofession. Especially if done in real time (player A and player B both pick up huge loads of trade good X for delivery at planet Z; player A gets there first and makes a killing, player B gets there second and ... is stuck with a load of trade good X). Have to manage this in terms of not revolving it around DT like the old trade goods system used to do, so freighter pilots in some TZs got rich... but I really like the idea. Needs balancing, like everything else. But great initial idea, hope it goes somewhere. Will lead to some neurotic traders constantly refreshing their market windows... :D
NCTaark	Posted - 2008.07.20 01:21:00 - [26] Thank you for the 'fun idea' compliment. I have not taken the time to create a 'tech tree' for this type of project but I think that the coolest way to implement this would be along the story lines of well the most dangerous industries are very regulated on core worlds and pilots are not trusted with them, but things like cattle ranching could be done where ever the planet resources would support the work. Maybe, ice or gas worlds are probably not so hot for cattle ranching, but volcanic worlds may be good for uranium mining or robotic parts factories, and raising exotic dancers on any of the above worlds would be impossible. I would imagine that this would incorporate physical limitations of world, some degree of NPC regulation that effects positioning some industries, and a degree of space available per world (based on NPC populations, land mass, suitability, and resources available). I think that the easiest set up method would be BPOs for the industry components, æmining equipmentÆ vs æfence picketsÆ and BPO price varies based on the complexity of the components etc. Then the system is geared to make the pilot 10% return per unit vs what the NPC market is buying for, then another 10%-20% risk premium that is effected by æpilot skillsÆ associated with those aspects of corporate management. I do not think that the NPC supplies or demands should go away, actually an increase to the NPC fuel demands that empire can not maintain, then station demands reach a critical mass pilots can choose to supply the empire mega corporations. This would encourage pilot participation economically via reward, while not totally upsetting the current POS networks that many have spent years building. Lots to think about.
Foulque	Posted - 2008.07.20 03:19:00 - [27]
Shade Sharphook	Posted - 2008.07.20 03:39:00 - [28] I like this idea. Needs lots of discussion, but could solve the POS fuel problems. Plus add some interesting new options to work with.


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