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Im fairly certain im insane for considering this

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Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:21:00 - [1] Under most other conditions I wouldnÆt consider this load out. Having been in eve for over a year IÆm sure to get some heckles for this one so before I post the load out and ask for advice id like to explain myself. I fly L4Æs with 3 accounts. Traditionally its been 1 brings the pain, 1 does the salvaging, and fairly recently, 1 does the hauling. The salvager is a ship large enough to hold 5 combat drones, which I will order to asset my main character meaning I can have 10 drones on a single target if I so choose while I have the salvager going about doing the salvaging. When the salvagers cargo hold is full I drop a jetcan and have the hauler tractor said can to itself to hold its contents in its hold and, depending on if the room will have respawnÆs or not, tell it to leave or cloak. This particular subject is about the hauler. Now I activated this third account with the sole purpose of immediately being able to haul my loot in missions. This way I wouldnÆt have to constantly run back and forth to a station or go back and change ships and so forth, saving me time. So far it has done this but last night I realized that I essentially am paying money monthly for this character to just haul my stuff around. Sure I have it training for other things down the road but IÆm more interested in what it can do now. So loading up EFT, I started looking for ships that are relatively easy to train for that have the largest cargo holds while still being able to have offensive capabilities. After a bit of exploration I deduced that the Amarr Apocalypse Battleship fits the bill. Its 8 low slots, when filled with ECÆIIs can have a cargo capacity of 3697. Now of course, this would completely leave the ship without its traditional armor tank, however please examine the following load out. Lows: 8 expanded Cargohold II Meds: 100mn afterburner II x-large shield booster II Invulnerability field II Heavy Capacitor Booster II Highs: Small tractor beam Drone link augmentor 6 Heavy Afocal Maser I Rigs: 3 CCC Drones: Hammerhead II Now, before anyone says the obvious, this ship would never be meant to take any argo. The shield booster and invulnerability field are meant to buy time for the ship to pull its drones back in and warp out should it come under heavy fire, it would always be aligned to a warp out point. Because it can not have a traditional capacitor recharge method, I would use a capacitor booster and have determined that, if I pack the proper amount, I could have my shields up for 5 minutes and still have over 3000 units of space in the cargo hold, not to mention laser crystals never need replacing I wouldnÆt have to dedicate cargo space for them. The whole point as to why I am considering this load out in the first place is that the more damage I can put down on a target the faster I can finish a mission while still having the cargo hold space to properly haul most if not all of the loot back to my base. I know that its not what the ship was originally meant for, but from what IÆve heard, the Apocalypse not that long ago was considered the best mining ship before the introduction of barges and exhumers. Please no ôyour insane", I already know that. Any thoughts, recomendations to better the ships offensive capabilities, etc, would be greatly welcomed as I admit I am not all that familar with how lasers work other than they eat cap and their T1 ammo doesnt need to be replaced. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:48:00 - [2] I'd probably use a drone boat because it would add more dps, I'd probably also use a cruiser because BSs are a bit fat to be running around picking crap up. So arbitrator or vexor, perhaps?
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:51:00 - [3] Originally by: Gimpb I'd probably use a drone boat because it would add more dps, I'd probably also use a cruiser because BSs are a bit fat to be running around picking crap up. So arbitrator or vexor, perhaps? My average missions yeild over 1500-2000 m3 of module loot which typically makes up the bulk of my isk so I need a ship that can hold the loot. A cruiser doesnt even come close to holding the average let alone when I get the good missions. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Hannobaal Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:52:00 - [4] Originally by: Gimpb I'd probably use a drone boat because it would add more dps, I'd probably also use a cruiser because BSs are a bit fat to be running around picking crap up. So arbitrator or vexor, perhaps? Exequror. -------------------------- recruit me
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:59:00 - [5] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Gimpb I'd probably use a drone boat because it would add more dps, I'd probably also use a cruiser because BSs are a bit fat to be running around picking crap up. So arbitrator or vexor, perhaps? Exequror. Doesnt come close. At best it can hold 1891, and thats with cargo hold optimization rigs. As I said before, my typical missions net me 1500-2000 m3 of loot and the good missions can net me over 3000 m3. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
steejans nix Amarr 0beron Construct	Posted - 2008.06.27 18:03:00 - [6] Why not, if this setup fiils you're needs and to me it does that quite decently indeed, all you got to do is set the bs to follow the salvager around and tractor in a can every now and then, it's not as though you doing loads of trips. One thing i would be temtped to do is drop a gun to fit another drone range augmentor as you may find that following the salvager you may find you're self away from where you needed !! Really can't see why this not work well and as skills progress will find you get faster and faster. Go for it but go for a navy apoc for added style !!
Brandon Boyd Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.27 18:27:00 - [7] Consider the phoon also, its not like you need anything cept Mini BS lvl 1
nthexwn Amarr Northwest Research INC	Posted - 2008.06.27 18:43:00 - [8] Buy a second monitor Fit the thing properly User your uber-micro to run two missions in parallel Make more money
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.06.27 18:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Brandon Boyd Consider the phoon also, its not like you need anything cept Mini BS lvl 1 I did but it doesnt work. The phoon requires cargo space for ammo, something that I need to keep almost exclusively for loot. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Brandon Boyd Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.27 18:47:00 - [10] then i¦d say Domi cause: +drones are bonuse and bay is huge +5 mids = better survivability +RR or somthing in highs - its fugly
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.06.27 19:09:00 - [11] Originally by: Brandon Boyd then i¦d say Domi cause: +drones are bonuse and bay is huge +5 mids = better survivability +RR or somthing in highs - its fugly That certainlly could work, its cargohold would be smaller, and it wouldnt put out as much damage as the apoc, but it would be faster, could take more damage and pack atleast 7 squads of hammerheads as opposed to the apoc's 1 squad plus 2 back ups. Though then again if I were to go threw 7 squads of hammerheads id obvously be drunk or something.... Ill have to think about this one but thanks for bringing the domi to my attention. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.06.27 19:09:00 - [12] Originally by: Brandon Boyd then i¦d say Domi cause: +drones are bonuse and bay is huge +5 mids = better survivability +RR or somthing in highs - its fugly Dominix. And you're doing it way overkill and ineffectivelly. 2 Accounts is more then enough doing it right for missions. Somebody set up us the bomb
Market AltLOLOLOLO	Posted - 2008.06.27 19:34:00 - [13] What I would do is train all three accounts for mauraders. Then all three can kill, haul, loot and salvage. Using a navy apoc is possible but really not that worth it just because it has 8 lows.
Nikkoli Immortalis Kruoris	Posted - 2008.06.27 19:49:00 - [14] Originally by: nthexwn *User your uber-micro to... I am the pwnerer...
Farrqua Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:06:00 - [15] Edited by: Farrqua on 27/06/2008 20:06:57 [Exequror, JEWRATMISSIONW***E SET UP] Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II 10MN Afterburner II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I Cargohold Optimization I Salvage Tackle I Salvage Tackle I Hobgoblin II x2 Hammerhead II x3 Cargo Space 2145 cu. meters. 340m/s 10k shields
corElement hirr	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:14:00 - [16] 3 accounts.. one mission..
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.06.27 21:24:00 - [17] Looks like I need to do a bit of explaining. Elhina: If you are talking about raw DPS then yes, my method is ineffective, however I have to take into account my environment. Where I mission I deal with ninja looters, granted not as many as some areas but at any given time I can identify several in the area and surrounding systems. I have found that if I salvage as I run the mission I do several things at once. 1. I keep the number of wrecks down, making me less of an interesting target. 2. The salvagers that I do attract usually arrive when there are only one or two wrecks on the grid and at some distance away, in almost every encounter this is enough to make them turn around and fly away without so much as bothering to get the ones that are up for grabs. 3. By salvaging while I mission I save myself time as usually my agent sends me a few jumps from his office where I am based (and by extension where all my equipment). While this may seem ineffective, it at least assures that 99% of the time I walk away with all the cash. Market: For two of my characters, it would take over 100 days to effectively fly a Marauder. Furthermore I find the Marauders waste of training and isk as currently most go for 500 million in my area, donÆt increase the dps to a significant level and so forth. The only advantage they have is a tractor beam bonus can save you on ammo and have better tanking ability (something I already have good abilities in), advantages hardly worth the cost at this point in time in my opinion. After thinking about it, I still feel the Apocalypse fits this roll the best. Though the domi can take more damage and can bring more drones to the mission it canÆt field all of them. Given that NPC's never change targets so long as you keep an eye on the drones or make sure youÆre the primary argo for the whole room you donÆt have to worry about losing them. The biggest advantage that the Apocalypse brings to the table for my purposes over the domi is that I can use it to siege stationary targets, which I seem to get a fair number of missions requiring me to blow up a station or stargate to complete the objective. All I would have to do is just change the medium lasers to large ones and when I reach that objective have the Apoc join in on firing on the target, whatÆs more besides the cost of the turrets and lasers, the damage would be free (as t1 crystals donÆt shatter). I suppose I am strange for having 3 accounts to work on a single mission, but in my experience I defeat the ninja looters and can complete, salvage and so forth the entire mission in one go, which is good as my agent seems to give me missions where the acceleration gates are some distance away from the warp in point. In any case though thanks to those who gave me input and ideas on this matter. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.06.27 21:41:00 - [18] Ineffective i meen is 3 characters for 1 mission. You can be as efficient with 2. Somebody set up us the bomb
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.06.27 21:43:00 - [19] Originally by: Elhina Novae Ineffective i meen is 3 characters for 1 mission. You can be as efficient with 2. Ah, well yes I am effective with 2 characters but it takes time, the more characters you bring to a mission the faster you can do it meaning the more isk you can bring in. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.06.27 21:47:00 - [20] Originally by: Jacob Mei Originally by: Elhina Novae Ineffective i meen is 3 characters for 1 mission. You can be as efficient with 2. Ah, well yes I am effective with 2 characters but it takes time, the more characters you bring to a mission the faster you can do it meaning the more isk you can bring in. That's the point. 1 Character killing and 1 Character salvaging is more then enough. A 3rd won't speed it up and you're most likely wasting isk/real life cash on ETCs doing this. Get the second character too be able too salvage/haul at the same time. A Hurricane fits this role role well and won't take you long at all to train for. Fit: High: Your own taste of Salvager/Tractor Mid: 10mn MWD and 100mn AB (MWD is better but cant be used in all missions) Low: Full rack of Expanders Rigs: Your own mix of Salvage Tackler/Cargohold Expanders. I'd recommend 1 Salavge, 2 Cargohold. This cargohold is enough for all missions and should be able too loot the entire Gone Berserk aswell. Somebody set up us the bomb
Foxtrot986 Viziam	Posted - 2008.06.28 02:00:00 - [21] Edited by: Foxtrot986 on 28/06/2008 02:01:01 Originally by: Jacob Mei Lows: 8 expanded Cargohold II Meds: 100mn afterburner II x-large shield booster II Invulnerability field II Heavy Capacitor Booster II Highs: Small tractor beam Drone link augmentor 6 Heavy Afocal Maser I Rigs: 3 CCC Drones: Hammerhead II WTB apoc with 8 low slots. In all seriousness, are you thinking armageddon? It has 8 low slots. I tend to lean towards the suggested dominix because then you can use drones for damage and put tractors and salvagers in the high slots.
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.06.28 02:49:00 - [22] Edited by: Gimpb on 28/06/2008 02:51:12 Edited by: Gimpb on 28/06/2008 02:50:37 If you're putting turrets in the highs, the domi will still probably edge out other BSs in damage if the lows of each are filled with expanders. If you're putting salvagers/tractors in the highs, it's no competition, I'm not sure any BS could even out-damage a vexor in that case. Make sure you're comparing on even terms, it sounds like you're comparing an apoc with turrets to a domi without. Remember that sentries can be used like turrets and you can put lasers on a domi if you want the cargo free. What people are saying about the marauders is correct, they're designed for this--spare highs for tractor/salvage and big cargo bays. They're expensive, but not more so than a faction BS.
Dragons Talon	Posted - 2008.06.28 02:49:00 - [23] Edited by: Dragons Talon on 28/06/2008 02:50:20 Dump one of the account..train minmatar bc and use a cane... full set of T2 expanders and three cargo rigs gives you 3103m3, 4 salvager's and 4 tb's and your set..also has a drone bay for that extra dps you want. Hell toss in a few small cans and get even more room for the junk *d a m n i t someone beat me to it
Arazel Chainfire USC Militia	Posted - 2008.06.28 03:04:00 - [24] Originally by: Jacob Mei Originally by: Brandon Boyd then i¦d say Domi cause: +drones are bonuse and bay is huge +5 mids = better survivability +RR or somthing in highs - its fugly That certainlly could work, its cargohold would be smaller, and it wouldnt put out as much damage as the apoc, but it would be faster, could take more damage and pack atleast 7 squads of hammerheads as opposed to the apoc's 1 squad plus 2 back ups. Though then again if I were to go threw 7 squads of hammerheads id obvously be drunk or something.... Ill have to think about this one but thanks for bringing the domi to my attention. Erm... 7 squads of hammerheads? What about using ogre's or something? Or have him have both a set of heavies and a set of sentries? (if he's 50km or so away and drops sentries, he can easily wtfpwn any frig orbiting you). Also, just because a ship has bonuses towards one weapon doesn't mean that it can't use another. I have in several cases used a laser domi (mosly because of the ability to not have to carry ammo), and with the smallest teir of beams you can fit 4-5 beams with no problems. Cap is easily solved by just putting some cap rechargers on it (after all... its using its cap to run the guns, and even then only when you're paying attention). It also has the added advantage of a few month down the road being easily able to join your team as a second dps boat for faster mission running times, or in a large group for uber afkness. If you are set on going with an amaar ship though... i'd recommend the geddon over the apoc. You get a bigger drone bay (heavy drones), and your guns can do more dps (ROF bonus vs. range bonus). Only downside is it has worse cap. Also remember that you don't have to have your "hauler" constantly following your salvager - as long as it's within 20km it can tractor the can and pick it up, giving you a good stationary sniping point. Do remember though that with low skills (and if its a brand new character, it will be low skills) turrets are... rather ineffective... especially large turrets. And they will remain ineffective for at least two months, more likely 3 and thats just focusing on the gunnery skills. -Arazel Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.

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