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Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
4
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Posted - 2012.03.14 02:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
This resource is a list of currently active MD borrowers and their credit ratings based on past history. The aim of this resource is to educate potential lenders of the bond market's current state.
Rather than assessing a borrower's credit rating using a speculative system, the credit rating is merely the maximum, uncollateralized, public ISK debt that the borrower has been trusted with at one time in the past. Collateralized loans have not been compiled as they do not require the same burden of faith on the borrower; however, third parties of collateral loans have been compiled as they require a burden of faith.
Suggestions for further edits (particularly corrections and additions) are fully welcomed to help grow this list for as long as it may be updated. Relevant discussion of the bond market is also welcomed and encouraged.
- Grendell - 350 Billion (3rd Party 1: 175b), (3rd Party 2: 225b), (3rd Party 3: 100b), (3rd Party 4: 120b), (3rd Party 5: 350b)
- Chribba - 100 Billion (3rd Party 1: 100b), (3rd Party 2: 50b)
- Liberty Eternal - 35 Billion (Bond 1: 750m), (Bond 2: 1b), (Bond 3: 2b), (Bond 4: 4b), (Bond 5: 15b), (Bond 6: 35b), (Bond 7: 20b)
- Kethas Protagonist - 30 Billion (Bond 1: 3.1b), (Bond 2: 6.7b), (Bond 3: 5b), (Bond 4: 20b), (Bond 5: 30b)
- Proton Power - 25 Billion (IPO 1: 69b), (IPO 2: 49b), (Bond 1: 25b), (Bond 2: 10b)
- DJ Blackman - 20 Billion (Bond 1: 500m), (Bond 2: 2b), (Bond 3: 3b), (Bond 4: 5b), (Bond 5: 12b), (Bond 6: 20b)
- Lord Wickham - 20 Billion (Andarius Trading Corp.
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Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
4
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Posted - 2012.03.14 02:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
Special thanks to VV, who was kind enough to provide names of several currently active and well-respected MD members at my request. That sparked the idea for this more quantifiable list of currently active MD borrowers.
Past data on MD Bond Markets may be found here: History of MD #1, History of MD #2, History of MD #3, History of MD #4, History of MD #5
Disclaimer: This list is not an endorsement of any borrower no matter how high their credit rating. Lenders invest at their own risk.
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
4
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Posted - 2012.03.14 02:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Reserved
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
4
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Posted - 2012.03.14 19:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thank you for all of the positive feedback! Many of you pointed out that, even with the defining of GÇ£credit rating,GÇ¥ it might be too misleading, so I decided to omit the use of credit rating entirely.
RAW23 wrote:Some of the posters above have mentioned collateral holding and access to unsecured isk but any of this that takes place privately can't really be logged usefully as it lacks confirmation.
This is really informing the limitations on how far I want to go in compiling this list. For instance, while we all trust that Chribba has held much greater amounts than those I have listed in private third party transactions, most people are not going to believe other unknown parties on their word that they have held private investments. Since only public investments can be accurately and easily verified, Chribba and everyone else that is listed is going to be limited to publicly verifiable bonds and trusts.
Also, if you have suggestions for additions, please provide me with links to the additions. It really cuts down on the time that I have to go searching around for the additions of which you already know the location. (I am currently working on searching through EVE forums archives and compiling Vaerah Vahrokha's trusts).
Edit 1.1
- Changed title language from GÇ£MD Borrower Credit RatingsGÇ¥ to GÇ£Borrowers and Trustees of MD GÇô A Resource for Investors.GÇ¥
- Changed language in description away from GÇ£credit ratings.GÇ¥
- Changed language from GÇ£3rd PartyGÇ¥ to GÇ£Trustee.GÇ¥
- Added aliases for Proton Power and RAW23.
- Corrected Proton Power's maximum, uncollateralized ISK debt from GÇ£25bGÇ¥ to GÇ£69b.GÇ¥
- Corrected Grendell's maximum, uncollateralized ISK debt from GÇ£350bGÇ¥ to GÇ£470b.GÇ¥
- Corrected RAW23's maximum, uncollateralized ISK debt from GÇ£20bGÇ¥ to GÇ£40b."
- Corrected two of RAW23's bond numbers due to further investments from flakeys that were originally missed.
- Added Mickov brat.
- Added TomHorn.
- Added TornSoul.
- Added Edwin Rothbard.
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
5
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Posted - 2012.03.17 19:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Version 1.2
- Added Vaerah Vahrokha
- Added Lauren Hellfury
- Added RAW23's Trust 1: 1.3b
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
7
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Posted - 2012.03.18 18:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:My third bond (http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1266123&page=1#28). This one went through a number of permutations so is difficult to follow linearly from p. 1 due to edits but had a maximum liability of 38.4bil.
So would that be your fourth bond? I think I already have three of your bonds on the record so far.
RAW23 wrote:Here's a 16bil bond I secured last year (http://eve-search.com/thread/1554873-0/page/1#30) which I don't think overlapped with any of my bond.
Here's an earlier 15.5bil bond I secured (http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1433700&page=1#1) which did overlap with my last bond.
Thanks! I will add these when I do the next update. I have been trying to stagger the timing of updates a bit to give people time to contribute and also cut down on how often I have to compile.
Quote:TornSoul's max expsoure needs a 100bil added to it. The bonds you note were for BMBE and were temporary but BMBE itself is a publicly owned corp with 100bil of startup capital (iirc). So, TornSoul is always in possession of that original 100bil of public money in addition to the extras. I couldn't find a link to the original thread (I believe BMBE has been running for somewhere in the region of 5-7 years now) but she posts a financial report on MD each month which may lead you back to the origins.
I found these two threads (IPO #1 and IPO #2). You were correct, 100 billion in all was raised as startup capital.
Quote:In general, how far back do you want to go with data for this? I have a document that has almost all the bonds from Oct 2009-Oct 2010 that I could send you but your time might be better spent dredging the last 12 months (then we could pool our data and get a nice view of over 2 years of activity).
That is a very good question. My original idea was to record all currently active MD borrowers and trustees and their full histories. The list I have right now is the extent to which I have researched through the old forums. My hope in publishing this list so far was to offset the workload. Now anyone could give me additions and corrects (hopefully with links). My plan is to keep updating for however long I am active in EVE, so long as I continue to get other posters finding content for me to add.
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
8
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Posted - 2012.03.19 03:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
TornSoul wrote:This included BIG Lottery (anniversary round 100B++++), BMBE, titan lottery, BIG Deal, various bonds.
I have been debating compiling Chribba's lotteries and your lotteries. I think they actually fit all the requirements of being included in this list (active trustee, uncollateralized ISK debt). The only problem is, it would be a massive undertaking to compile all the links to the individual lotteries. I think I will put that on the backburner for a bit. I might summon up the energy one of these days, or some alternative idea on how to proceed might come to me.
Quote:We did this exercise some time ago as well, you might want to try and search for that thread for more info.
If I recall my figure of max total simultaneous liabilities back then was around 500B or so (don't think I've exceeded that since).
Do you have any idea what time period that post would fall under? It would make searching for it a lot easier.
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
11
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Posted - 2012.03.19 21:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote:Another interesting question this raises is how to count IPOs as opposed to bonds (although it also has a minimal knockon effect for bonds too). Do you count as 'isk entrusted' just the initial investment in BMBE or the current value. Personally, I would incline towards the former as the isk growth has been worked for rather than potentially scammed and the later figure would involve scammed from investors + made for investors Basically, I would suggest counting only the isk that is taken out of the investors hands (it will also simplify valuing IPOs, some of which are rather opaque).
I was wondering this exact same thing myself. I tend to agree with you. It seems a bit more fair to only count the face value of IPOs, but it does come at the expense of not really giving full credit to people like TornSoul who have literally worked years on a successful IPO. It is a trade-off. The additional advantage is that the original face value is easily publicly verified, and that is one of the general principles I have when it comes to compiling a list like this.
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
21
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Posted - 2012.03.24 00:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Version 1.3
- Added TornSoul IPO 1, IPO 2, Trust 1, Trust 2, Trust 3, Trust 4, Trust 5, Trust 6, Trust 7, Trust 8
- Updated TornSoul Maximum Exposure to 214.7b
- Added RAW23 Bond 3, Trust 1, Trust 2
- Added David Forge Bond 5
- Added Breaker77 Bond 1, Trust 1, Trust 2, Trust 3, Trust 4
- Added S'ylph Bond 1
- Added 2009 IPOs and Bonds
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
21
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Posted - 2012.03.24 01:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ariana DeSoto wrote:My feelings are hurt. I don't see my offer mentioned. Even though my project went **** up and exploded in my face I still paid back my investor.
 I'm sorry. I originally compiled just a few names. Additions to the list are now almost entirely from recommendations posted on the thread. Do you have a link? It makes things a lot easier for me to add them. 
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
21
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Posted - 2012.03.26 21:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Version 1.4
- Added Resiin Bond 1
- Added Ariana DeSoto Bond 1
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
21
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Posted - 2012.03.27 17:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Proper formatting! Thank you!
TheSmokingHertog wrote:Maybe ask to sticky this? Its a lot of useful information gathered at one place.
I am not sure how keen the mods are on stickying user threads. Hopefully people will remember it and link to it in other threads when the need arises.
Do you have links to specific bonds that you have done on the MD forums? This list is only compiling MD bonds where the investors are public information.
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
21
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Posted - 2012.03.28 01:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Block Ukx wrote:List of bonds for the MD can be found here I acted as a third-party trustee for the PFBond and for the SBB Bond. I currently held in-trust about 47 B in non-BSAC shares. The BSAC Stock Exchange does not release investor's information. Only the fund manager has access to the list of shareholders.
I would love to add to the list any bonds that are conducted through the MD forums. However, I am currently not adding anything that was not conducted through the MD forums. The reasoning for this is that, in a private bond, the details of who invested and how much they invested is not public information; it is only based on testimony of the bond issuer. Although I might change how I am constructing the list in the future to reflect a broader range of investments, adding non-public bonds is a can of worms that I am unwilling to work through at this point in time.
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
22
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Posted - 2012.03.28 02:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Block Ukx wrote:The bonds were public and issued via the stock exchange. In some of the bonds I acted as a third-party, so the information is not only based on the testimony of the bond issuer.
Even if it is posted on the MD, you still rely on the testimony of the bond issuer. Alts can easily be used to inflate the bond.
I would like to make it clear that I am not calling in to question your stock exchange, third party services, or bonds. If Chribba himself asked me to list some of his private third party services, I would politely tell him that the list does not include private transactions. I am trying to place myself out of the position of being the one who determines which private bonds get listed and which do not. That is, I am making this list in a way that readers do not have to trust my judgment. That is why I am only compiling bonds in which all parties (borrower, lender, trustee) are public information, and the amount of the bond is public information. Although sometimes private parties are included, MD Bonds largely fulfill the aforementioned criteria. Also, it is true that alts can (and might have) inflated bonds on this list, but there is no stricter method that I believe I can reasonably apply to correct for that.
Like I said, however, this is MD's list more than it is my list. If the general consensus is that it would be better to compile it differently, then I am happy to oblige, so long as it would take a reasonable amount of time.
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
22
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Block Ukx wrote:BSAC is currently an active borrower and trustee. There is no mention in your opening statement about your public disclosure requirement.
As your initial post stands you make it sound as if BSAC is no longer acive. I don't want people to get the wrong impression.
I have updated the opening statement to more accurately reflect how this list is compiled. Some of this language was pulled from the discussion that Kara and I had later down the thread:
Quote:This resource is a list of currently active, public MD borrowers and trustees. The aim of this resource is to educate potential lenders of the bond market's current state.
Since only public investments can be accurately and easily verified, this list is limited to public information on the MD forums.
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
22
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Posted - 2012.03.28 06:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Block Ukx wrote:Your opening statement "Since only public investments can be accurately and easily verified" is false. You seem to beleive that if it is posted in MD it must be true.
The implication behind that statement is that a reader can see a bond amount beside a player's name on the list and click the link to verify that, prima facie, unique characters are stating that they are investing the amount of the listed bond. That statement is not meant to imply that a reader can verify that characters are unconnected to the bond issuer, or actually invested the stated amount.
I am willing to take suggestions on how I could improve the list. Other posters will hopefully respond to generate a consensus.
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
22
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Posted - 2012.03.31 04:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Version 1.5
- Changed language to indicate public nature of compiled offerings
- Added Kei Darker - Bond 11
- Added Gatan Hahran - Bond 1
- Added KaraflasXAM - Bond 1
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
22
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Posted - 2012.04.01 01:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Version 1.6
- Added Asura07 - Bond 1: 5b
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
22
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Posted - 2012.04.02 18:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Version 1.7
- Changed language to reflect that some of the bonds in the uncollateralized borrowers histories were collateralized. Added indicator (*) to make those bonds more recognizable. I might have missed some, so please tell me if you notice any. = D
- Added Stealing Honest - Bond 1, Bond 2, Bond 3, Bond 4, IPO 1, Bond 5, Bond 6, Trust 1, Trust 2, Bond 7, Bond 8, Bond 9, Bond 10, Bond 11, Bond 12, Bond 13
- Added Golkan - Bond 4
- Added Lee Anderson - Bond 1, Bond 2
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
22
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Posted - 2012.04.03 06:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
OllieNorth wrote:This is one of the cooler efforts that I have seen on here lately. It very nearly motivates me to put together a business plan in order to join the list.
I agree, we should get it stickied.
Also, +10 points for responding maturely to criticism.
I am extremely flattered. It makes me really happy to know that people are supportive of this list. Comments like this make me want to keep actively updating!
Andarius Trading Corp. |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
24
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Posted - 2012.04.03 23:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Version 1.8
- Added Grendell - Trust 6
- Added Barakach - Bond 1, Bond 2
Andarius Trading Corp. | Borrowers and Trustees of MD |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
24
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Posted - 2012.04.06 03:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Version 1.9
- Added Lesath Scorpii - Bond 1
- Added Chevalleis - Bond 1
Andarius Trading Corp. | Borrowers and Trustees of MD |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
24
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Posted - 2012.04.06 17:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
I have two questions that I would like as many people as possible to answer so I can get some feel of what the community thinks.
- Should this list be moved to EVElopedia so that, in the future when I stop updating, it can still be updated by anyone who is willing?
- Are people interested in a MD Black List that records all scammers and defaulters of bonds or IPOs posted on MD?
Andarius Trading Corp. | Borrowers and Trustees of MD |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
25
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Posted - 2012.04.08 04:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Amarr Citizen 155 wrote:Can I be in your pretty list? I had some isk once.
Of course. Do you have links offhand? If not, even an unlinked list of bonds that you can remember would be really help me search for the original threads.
Andarius Trading Corp. | Borrowers and Trustees of MD |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
27
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Posted - 2012.04.13 01:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Version 2.0
- Added Chevalleis - Bond 2
- Added Kouryusei - IPO 1, Bond 1
Andarius Trading Corp. | Borrowers and Trustees of MD |
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
27
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Posted - 2012.04.16 16:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
The list is no longer maintained here. It is now maintained on EVElopedia. I went ahead and added your bond since you requested it, but in the future the manager, which is currently Hostility Incarnate, will add bonds to the list within a reasonable timeframe after they are filled. If you would like bonds to be added immediately, it is now maintained such that anyone can edit it.
Andarius Trading Corp. | MD Borrowers and Trustees |
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