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White Ronin
Gallente
Screenout
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Posted - 2008.06.28 19:55:00 -
[1]
One of the major problems with drones and their various modules, issues of lack of implants and balancing is that they are used on so many ships in so many factions.
The balance issue is the main reason for the lack of drone implants, modules and new drones (that don't cost 10 mil and 100 hours of farming each to find and make).
By limiting what ships can use what drones, the balance issue is fixed and new things can be implemented toward the use of drones without making them overpowered.
If a ship is built with the use of drones in mind then is should be made so that its existance does not prevent new drones or modules from being introduced by its mere existance.
They are on everything.
But you cant introduce a more powerful light drone now because all the ships with 25m3 drone space or more just got a boost.
You cant make more interesting and useful drones because the ships they were not ment for can use them since their are only two factors governing drone use.
Bandwidth and drone bay space.
Vanilla controls over a very dynamic weapons system.
Also, pairing these with weapons that cant be destroyed makes them too powerful. The argument of "just destroy them" is wasted on the ship that doesnt use them as their primary weapon.
Light ECM drones are a great example of the problem. They allow for 5 jaming attempts per cycle. The break of the lock means a relock and they are trying to jam during this also. But any ship with 25m3 space uses them.
Because while drone ships have damage bonuses, all ships use the other drone types the same way.
That is the flaw.
As it stands now, you can not add modules or cybernetic implants or new powerful drones because they will be used on ships they were not ment to be used on and ruin the ship balance and role that ccp has been working toward.
The existance of these ships prevents the addition of more drone content. That is just silly.
Please ccp, either make a flat limit on a ships drone type use, make them work less effectively on nondrone focused ships or add a new control along the lines of bandwidth that would regulate drone use by type.
As it stands now, drones are a dead end weapons system because they are used as secondary weapons on so many ships. You cant boost or add to drone use for drone specialists because EVERYONE would get the boost.
So drones stagnate or get things like the Augmented versions of drones. Faction drones yes. Powerful, yes. But so expensive to make even 5 it is sick.
But using this kinda control makes them unusable and therefore a waste of time to design and emplement because of their lack of use. Exotic drones that never see the light of day but how much design time was wasted on this?
Has anyone seen them being used?
My point exaclty.
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Halcana
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.06.29 03:29:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Halcana on 29/06/2008 03:29:29
Could a solution perhaps be:
1. Remove ships' innate "Drone Bandwidth" stat (for subcapital ships at any rate);
2. Change the Drone Control Unit so that it can be fitted to any ship, and now generates 25mbit/sec (or something) of bandwith.
Result, any ship (with a drone bay) can still field drones, but as it needs to sacrifice a high-slot in order to do so, it becomes more of a considered loadout issue, as opposed to just "yeah, and of course I'll chuck in a few Hammerhead II's on top".
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Artemis Rose
Eleckrostatik
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Posted - 2008.06.29 09:30:00 -
[3]
Thats the main thing going for drones, to be able to expand the tactical options in various ships.
Specialized drone ships have a lot going for them. What other ship weapon system gets up to a 50% bonus to damage with a single ship bonus?
Ironically, a t2 hornet launched by a ship w/ a drone bonus becomes the "improved and more powerful" drone you want.
__________________________________________________
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.06.29 10:20:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Halcana
Edited by: Halcana on 29/06/2008 03:29:29
Could a solution perhaps be:
1. Remove ships' innate "Drone Bandwidth" stat (for subcapital ships at any rate);
2. Change the Drone Control Unit so that it can be fitted to any ship, and now generates 25mbit/sec (or something) of bandwith.
Result, any ship (with a drone bay) can still field drones, but as it needs to sacrifice a high-slot in order to do so, it becomes more of a considered loadout issue, as opposed to just "yeah, and of course I'll chuck in a few Hammerhead II's on top".
"Fantastic idea", now apply it to reality:
Drake: oh, wait, I just have that utility slot, 25 m3 of drones, perfect
Dominix: 5 high slots to usse 125 m3 of drones? Yai for 1 gun
Raven: 2 utility? 50 m3 , perfect
Myrmidion: 4 slots for the 100 m3
And so on. It will help wonderfully non drone ships as they could use a utility slot to get 25 m3 of drones, while it will nerf dedicated drone ships that would use 4-5 high slots to use the drones.
No wonder you will be suggesting a similar broken idea, you are Caldari. Little experience in drone ships?
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Deldrac
Bat Country
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.29 13:28:00 -
[5]
Quote:
But you cant introduce a more powerful light drone now because all the ships with 25m3 drone space or more just got a boost.
Of course you can, just make them take more bandwidth and/or require more drone skills and/or require a new module.
Everyone and his dog having access to the existing drones is one of the few things keeping nanoships in check. But nothing stops anyone designing new alternate types of drones with different fitting requirements.
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Syberbolt8
Gallente
The Fated
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.06.29 14:32:00 -
[6]
Drones have hit the nerf bat to many times latly, leave them alone, last thing I need is even less dps on my myrmidon bc you want to use up all my highslots for fricking DCU's
no supported. not even close.
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Halcana
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.06.29 15:31:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
"Fantastic idea", now apply it to reality:
Drake: oh, wait, I just have that utility slot, 25 m3 of drones, perfect
Dominix: 5 high slots to usse 125 m3 of drones? Yai for 1 gun
Raven: 2 utility? 50 m3 , perfect
Myrmidion: 4 slots for the 100 m3
And so on. It will help wonderfully non drone ships as they could use a utility slot to get 25 m3 of drones, while it will nerf dedicated drone ships that would use 4-5 high slots to use the drones.
I'm not putting this forward as a completely finished idea. 25mbit/sec is a number I grabbed out of the air, and actual drone ships could retain a degree of innate bandwidth, and/or receive a bonus to control unit effectiveness.
Quote:
No wonder you will be suggesting a similar broken idea, you are Caldari. Little experience in drone ships?
Yup. |
Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2008.07.02 15:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Specialized drone ships have a lot going for them. What other ship weapon system gets up to a 50% bonus to damage with a single ship bonus?
Too unfortunate that drones don't make that much damage to begin with. |
Manfred Rickenbocker
The Elliance
Delta.Green
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Posted - 2008.07.02 20:29:00 -
[9]
As the OP said, currently drone ships lack two things that give conventional-weapon ships the advantage: damage mods and implants. Yes, dedicated drone ships can get massive damage bonuses, however drones are fairly weak to begin with and utility drones dont take advantage of any of those bonuses. What drone ships need:
High-Slot damage mod that uses hardpoints (trade guns/launchers for drone damage)
Drone rigs that arent useless (trading in CPU in massive quantities = no no)
Drone Implants to help with speed and durability
More drone space (drone ships are easily cripped by smartbombs and other drones)
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Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Suvliana
Minmatar
21st Highland Regiment
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Posted - 2008.07.02 20:41:00 -
[10]
Originally by: White Ronin
One of the major problems with drones and their various modules, issues of lack of implants and balancing is that they are used on so many ships in so many factions.
The balance issue is the main reason for the lack of drone implants, modules and new drones (that don't cost 10 mil and 100 hours of farming each to find and make).
By limiting what ships can use what drones, the balance issue is fixed and new things can be implemented toward the use of drones without making them overpowered.
If a ship is built with the use of drones in mind then is should be made so that its existance does not prevent new drones or modules from being introduced by its mere existance.
They are on everything.
But you cant introduce a more powerful light drone now because all the ships with 25m3 drone space or more just got a boost.
You cant make more interesting and useful drones because the ships they were not ment for can use them since their are only two factors governing drone use.
Bandwidth and drone bay space.
Vanilla controls over a very dynamic weapons system.
Also, pairing these with weapons that cant be destroyed makes them too powerful. The argument of "just destroy them" is wasted on the ship that doesnt use them as their primary weapon.
Light ECM drones are a great example of the problem. They allow for 5 jaming attempts per cycle. The break of the lock means a relock and they are trying to jam during this also. But any ship with 25m3 space uses them.
Because while drone ships have damage bonuses, all ships use the other drone types the same way.
That is the flaw.
As it stands now, you can not add modules or cybernetic implants or new powerful drones because they will be used on ships they were not ment to be used on and ruin the ship balance and role that ccp has been working toward.
The existance of these ships prevents the addition of more drone content. That is just silly.
Please ccp, either make a flat limit on a ships drone type use, make them work less effectively on nondrone focused ships or add a new control along the lines of bandwidth that would regulate drone use by type.
As it stands now, drones are a dead end weapons system because they are used as secondary weapons on so many ships. You cant boost or add to drone use for drone specialists because EVERYONE would get the boost.
So drones stagnate or get things like the Augmented versions of drones. Faction drones yes. Powerful, yes. But so expensive to make even 5 it is sick.
But using this kinda control makes them unusable and therefore a waste of time to design and emplement because of their lack of use. Exotic drones that never see the light of day but how much design time was wasted on this?
Has anyone seen them being used?
My point exaclty.
Want some cheese with this whine? STFU. It's a game, not reality or your mom's house.
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Brengholl
Gallente
Special Operations Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.03 13:41:00 -
[11]
this is a perfect example of an idea that needs to be in the "Features and Ideas Discussion" forum
the idea is mostly just a selfish nerf to another faction so my faction could beter pwn
and none will agree with this for any other than that reason
the idea is also not thought through
i might post an idea "make battleships imune to light and medium missiles"... i think that would greatly make up for the fact that missile users can pick damage types...
... se how stupid these ideas sound when the're against your faction
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