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Aslord	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:57:00 - [61] my point exactly! in eve, people do it because the can at the expense of the victim. the penalty is too small. great game mechanic ccp!
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.01 22:21:00 - [62] Originally by: Bhaal Edited by: Bhaal on 01/07/2008 11:45:12 Quote: My apologies if I upset you so badly for explaining to you why suiciding ganking is the way it is, and why it is that CCP will not change it. You obviously don't want to leave EVE, despite the pool of tears beneath you - even though you've flooded page 1 with whines about it. Well, I don't need you to explain it to me, I know why it is the way it is, CCP is lazy... I was just commenting that the Infinity DEV does not seem to have this laziness trait that CCP continues to display. There is no pool of tears. I quit EVE 10 months ago, after playing for 4 years straight. I came back to try FW, and for whatever reason my ISP cannot connect me to TQ. I just wanted to argue about something this morning, and saw a nice juicy Suicide Ganking thread. Pretty simple really... I don't drink coffee to wake me up in the morning, just a few arguments on EVE-O and I'm good to go! (And I'm going to make sure I get them in b4 my sub runs out, have to get something in return for my $14.95) LOL. Infinity is just vaporware, they've been in development forever and all they have is some ****ty 3d renderings that can be done by a guy in a week and some concept sketches. Not to mention its premises is utter failure. Hundreds of billions of worlds? So you never have to fight, ever. It'd basically be hello kitty online in space.
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.01 22:34:00 - [63] Originally by: Bhaal Suicide gankers are just the players who fail at 0.0 PvP. It's me, I'm da failed 0.0 PvPer.
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.01 22:41:00 - [64] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Bhaal Suicide gankers are just the players who fail at 0.0 PvP. It's me, I'm da failed 0.0 PvPer. Confirming dis.
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.01 22:43:00 - [65] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Bhaal Suicide gankers are just the players who fail at 0.0 PvP. It's me, I'm da failed 0.0 PvPer. Confirming dis. Hai 5 ex-Tri buddy. o/
Kimiko Kith	Posted - 2008.07.01 23:47:00 - [66] Edited by: Kimiko Kith on 01/07/2008 23:50:29 Edited by: Kimiko Kith on 01/07/2008 23:47:02 Originally by: Amastat Historically - EVE was not open to the public in the beginning, and wasn't intended to be - CCP just noticed that it was very popular, so they were nice enough to open it to the public, if they want to play it : unlike ALL the other MMORPG's, which are made by company's who drew the plans for them with one simple thing on mind, and nothing else - money. This is also the reason why CCP didn't adopt the marketing methods that company's like Blizzard did, turning the game into a huge franchise. EVE had the potential to be a lot bigger than it is now - but it isn't, because that was not CCP's main interest in EVE. The money that CCP is making is really nothing more then a small bonus on the side, from being generous enough to let us play this game 5 years ago, and to keep the thing running. In a lot of ways, they let us use something that was once their own private thing, and in return, the players helped made CCP what they are today, as thanks for such a great game. LOL. Seriously, you think EVE and CCP is part of some altruistic endeavour that just happen to make them money? Are you nuts? Do you have any interviews or documentation to back up any of that?
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.07.02 07:20:00 - [67] Forums were broken yesterday, couldn't post. Originally by: Akita T The only reason the "non-profitable, for lulz" kills exist in the first place is the fact that suicide-ganking became more popular in general DUE TO STUPID PEOPLE who don't know the first thing about their own ship's limits, creating an extremely target-rich environment. Now that statement is clearly false. I expected better precision from you Akita, not a frothing at the mouth: HER SKIRT WAS TOO SHORT...ahem, I mean: VICTIM IS STOOPIDGG!!01! The reason there's so many is CLEARLY because of ease and lack of cost. No matter how "stupid" targets are, if there are ganking costs, prevalence goes down. When there are no costs, it goes up. To put it another way, when suiciding is free, there's bound to be a lot of it. The stupidity level of any large crowd is a constant, the changes resulting in perma-suicide camps are cost related. How you can claim it's the victims causing the increase, is beyond me. Have you really become a troll now? Quote: Last but not least, you may probably notice how those suicide-ganks happen almost exclusively in laggy-as-hell mission or trade hubs, or very close to entry/exit points from them. That so? I got one guy at least three days of the week outside my station, scanning ships for 3-5 hours at a time. I also have 50 in local, <20 in neighboring systems. Quote: To put it in other terms : "suicide-ganking is fine - NERF stupid players instead". Yes, the cost needs to be increased a little to break the damned positive feedback of "stupidity -> target rich environment -> forum whines -> more ganks than usual" we have right now. Anyone can be suicided, missionships and haulers will always be easy prey, so cost and ease of ganking are the prime factors in ganking prevalence, way above any other factors. This means your causal chain is utter rubbish. You hear that, rubbish! I predict your posts will gravitate towards C&P to take part in the lololfaiill - let's laugh at others misery posting, during the next 6 months, but perhaps you'll have an alt for that, or already have. And to think I had great respect for you back when I first read your stacking nerf threads....sigh. Quote: But an x5 cost increase ? WAY too much. It would practically mean there's next to no decent targets, and therefore a lot less suicide-gankers, therefore a lot less risk. Increasing the cost x5 will lower the risk/reward ratio for haulers and mission-runners far more than 5 times. Suicide-ganking ratios of mission runners vs haulers will heavily increase towards the mission-runner side, haulers getting an almost "99.99999% AFK-safe highsec" card, whith hub mission-runners a lot safer, but still not that much safer. Not true at all, since taking out haulers requires so little isk invested in tools, increasing it 5x (which seems to be a number you drew from a hat, btw) won't matter greatly against the value of the cargo in the hauler. Quote: And almost no suicide-gankers at all is not fun either... most likely you will see almost exclusively "ganks for fun", with the occasional gank for profit. Oh well... you COULD give it a shot, but I seriously doubt it would be that good for the game overall. What we'd see is a return to at least somewhat reasonable levels, not the ridiculous situation we have today. A situation some people have grown so accustomed to, they forget it is wayy out of balance.
Bhaal Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.02 09:43:00 - [68] Quote: LOL. Infinity is just vaporware, they've been in development forever and all they have is some ****ty 3d renderings that can be done by a guy in a week and some concept sketches. Not to mention its premises is utter failure. Hundreds of billions of worlds? So you never have to fight, ever. It'd basically be hello kitty online in space. Honestly, you just don't know what you're talking about. However, I can't force you to educate yourself if you choose to remain ignorant. You're certainly free to have whatever opinion you want, I'll just notify you that you are incorrect. If you'd investigate a bit further, you'd see that... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.07.02 10:33:00 - [69] Originally by: Bhaal Criminals getting insurance for committing a crime, that's a no brainer, but yet the CCP DEV's don't have the intelligence obviously. You do realise that the only thing that makes sense with insurance is removing it all together? 1. No insurance company would pay you insurance if you willfully put yourself into a situation where there is a high likelyhood of a accident ocurring. F.ex. Mining in a astroid belt, full of astroids that are several times bigger than your ship, and randomly crash into each other. or Running missions in a warzone where pirates and renegades in battleships are trying to kill you, and they outnumber you. or Being stupid and afk hauling on a route that is known for suicide ganks, and not using the tools given to you to avoid the route. we are recruiting!
Cadde Gallente L.M.F.A.O	Posted - 2008.07.02 10:44:00 - [70] Even though i agree that insurance shouldn't be handed to individuals committing crimes i fail to see how doing that would stop the suicide ganking. It might reduce it because it becomes more expensive to keep it up but eventually people will complain that suicide gankers aren't hit hard enough. And what about those situations where you commit a crime unintentionally, at least the insurance keep you from going berserk. If anything should be done (I think not, you are not supposed to be safe) then concord should protect the dropped can from theft. So if you are criminally killed then only YOU can fetch the dropped can. But like i said, i feel suicide ganking works as intended, carry anything that is worth more than the investment required to get you and you are NOT safe. --------------- Opinions expressed are those of my own and does in NO WAY reflect the opinions of whatever corp/alliance i am currently part of.
Meroze	Posted - 2008.07.02 10:47:00 - [71] Edited by: Meroze on 02/07/2008 10:56:14 Originally by: Gamesguy LOL. Infinity is just vaporware, they've been in development forever and all they have is some ****ty 3d renderings that can be done by a guy in a week and some concept sketches. I remember reading something exactly like that on a games development forum about 10 years ago, about this unknown company wanting to make a game like Elite, but have it multiplayer. The forum consensus was that it couldn't be done, would have crappy 3d graphics and take years to make. That "vaporware" game was called Eve Online. A little bit beyond some guys 1-week renderings
Bhaal Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.02 11:30:00 - [72] Quote: Even though i agree that insurance shouldn't be handed to individuals committing crimes i fail to see how doing that would stop the suicide ganking I never said it was supposed to stop it... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Arcani Victus	Posted - 2008.07.02 11:48:00 - [73] Originally by: Napoleon Bismarck I was flying through high-sec the other day when I witnessed a Raven attacking a transport near a jump gate. The transport was popped leaving a good chunk of its cargo and the Raven was quickly popped by concord soon after. I thought to myself that that was a pretty dumb move until I saw a ship which must have been flying with the Raven quickly move in and take the stuff from the wreck. It dawned on me that these guys may have been in it together. I mentioned this incident to my corp-mates and a couple of RL friends I know and they said this type of attack was increasingly common. A couple of ships would wait at a gate in high sec looking for ships that appeared to be on autopilot, scan them down and kill them if its worth it. This raised the question for me: what is the point in having high-sec space if its not safe? This incident happened in a 1.0 system. At least if you get ganked in low sec you have the option of taking a heavily armed escort with you. That doesn't seem to be an option with this kind of attack. I have also heard stories of miners being attacked in a similiar way in my corps home system although this seems to have been for kicks and not ISK making. Is this game mechanics or is it bending of the rules? Has some bright spark discovered this loop-hole in the rules to make some quick ISK and its now spreading? Is there anything CCP can do to stop it? Tougher penalties for attacking players in 1.0 yo 0.8 maybe? I would be interested to know of any players this has happened to and even any thoughts on the matter. All I know right now is that I won't be mining or transporting alot of expensive goods in high-sec while I'm afk from now on. Welcome to EVE.
Arctur Ceti	Posted - 2008.07.02 14:52:00 - [74] Originally by: Inertial You do realise that the only thing that makes sense with insurance is removing it all together? 1. No insurance company would pay you insurance if you willfully put yourself into a situation where there is a high likelyhood of a accident ocurring. F.ex. Mining in a astroid belt, full of astroids that are several times bigger than your ship, and randomly crash into each other. or Running missions in a warzone where pirates and renegades in battleships are trying to kill you, and they outnumber you. or Being stupid and afk hauling on a route that is known for suicide ganks, and not using the tools given to you to avoid the route. There is a difference between getting your ship accidentally blown up and intentionally blown up. I fully insure all my ships and hardly lose any, even in 0.0. But if I ever did lose a ship well, my losses won't be as bad. Suicide gankers are not using it to minimize losses. They're using it as a loophole to make a ****load of isk. I seriously doubt CCP created insurance with the intention of making suicide attacks more viable and as a isk-making tool.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.02 15:02:00 - [75] I'm happy to balance more realistic insurance against more realistic police (ie: killable police that don't always turn up within a few seconds and don't have a 100% wtfpwn rate) CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.07.02 15:03:00 - [76] I love suicide ganking, since it gave me a reason to actually put thought into fitting and loading my transport. Even though I often move a few hundred million isks worth of stuff on AP, I've never had anyone even try to gank me.
Arctur Ceti	Posted - 2008.07.02 15:16:00 - [77] Originally by: Malcanis I'm happy to balance more realistic insurance against more realistic police (ie: killable police that don't always turn up within a few seconds and don't have a 100% wtfpwn rate) Where I live you'd wish it was Concord kicking your ass and not the local police .
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.02 15:37:00 - [78] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab I love suicide ganking, since it gave me a reason to actually put thought into fitting and loading my transport. Even though I often move a few hundred million isks worth of stuff on AP, I've never had anyone even try to gank me. Unfortunately giving alert pilots in competently fitted ships a competitive advantage will destroy EvE. CCP is completely dependant on the "AFKer" market to survive. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Daisy Blossom Caldari Alpha27 Diabolic Paradox	Posted - 2008.07.02 18:16:00 - [79] Originally by: Malcanis I'm happy to balance more realistic insurance against more realistic police (ie: killable police that don't always turn up within a few seconds and don't have a 100% wtfpwn rate) Amen. If people want to be protected at all times by the devs then they should go (back to) play(ing) WoW. I personally love how EVE's harsh climate filters out the imbeciles.
Bhaal Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.02 18:19:00 - [80] Quote: I personally love how EVE's harsh climate filters out the imbeciles. Yes, getting paid to suicide your rig is harsh. Yep. ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Plumpy McPudding Profit Development and Research Association	Posted - 2008.07.02 18:25:00 - [81] Originally by: Bhaal Quote: I personally love how EVE's harsh climate filters out the imbeciles. Yes, getting paid to suicide your rig is harsh. Yep. If you're not a tool and not completely inept, avoiding suicide ganks are easy. __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.02 18:41:00 - [82] Originally by: Bhaal Quote: I personally love how EVE's harsh climate filters out the imbeciles. Yes, getting paid to suicide your rig is harsh. Yep. Yeah having invulnerable omnipotent NPCs protect you is harsh. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Kimiko Kith	Posted - 2008.07.02 18:53:00 - [83] Originally by: Bhaal You're totally wrong in your vaporware assumptions, but you are free to have whatever opinions you want... Hey that initial stuff looks pretty good. Keep up the good work! But for the record, you gotta tell them to do something about that terrible logo. Copperplate Bold is a terrible font choice.
Bhaal Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:03:00 - [84] Originally by: Kimiko Kith Originally by: Bhaal You're totally wrong in your vaporware assumptions, but you are free to have whatever opinions you want... Hey that initial stuff looks pretty good. Keep up the good work! But for the record, you gotta tell them to do something about that terrible logo. Copperplate Bold is a terrible font choice. A new & updated website is in the works, new logo's & such. Stay tuned. As far as the other two kick-me-dogs nipping at my ankles. I don't care how unsafe CCP wants Empire Space, just don't do illogical things like giving insurance payouts to ppl losing ships during a criminal act, use some common sense when you program the gameplay, don't be lazy. As I said b4, I could care less how many AFK nubs bite the bullet... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:11:00 - [85] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Kimiko Kith Originally by: Bhaal You're totally wrong in your vaporware assumptions, but you are free to have whatever opinions you want... Hey that initial stuff looks pretty good. Keep up the good work! But for the record, you gotta tell them to do something about that terrible logo. Copperplate Bold is a terrible font choice. A new & updated website is in the works, new logo's & such. Stay tuned. As far as the other two kick-me-dogs nipping at my ankles. I don't care how unsafe CCP wants Empire Space, just don't do illogical things like giving insurance payouts to ppl losing ships during a criminal act, use some common sense when you program the gameplay, don't be lazy. As I said b4, I could care less how many AFK nubs bite the bullet... Far be it from me to call you a liar when your own posts do it so effectvely. Anyway have fun playing that other game. Remind us - how long has it been in development? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Bhaal Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:18:00 - [86] Edited by: Bhaal on 02/07/2008 19:26:33 Edited by: Bhaal on 02/07/2008 19:21:52 Quote: Far be it from me to call you a liar when your own posts do it so effectvely. Show me? I never said taking away insurance payouts for Suicide Gankers would make Empire Space safer. I said it would make suicide ganking more challenging, or more costly, hence greater care taken when selecting targets. Not to mention the fact it would take away the silliness of insurance companies paying out to criminals... Just how long do you think EVE was in development? IIRC, 1995-2003. So for 8 years EVE was laughable vaporware? Well, Infinity has only been laughable vaporware for 3... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Cosy Gallente Porandor	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:36:00 - [87] Edited by: Cosy on 02/07/2008 19:36:25 i make a vote do anyone wanna kill Bhaal in empire util he dont have more ships ? and anyone wanna report his post because make publicity of other game and try to leak players :PPPP
Apoctasy The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:58:00 - [88] LOL this thread is too good.
Bhaal Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:13:00 - [89] Edited by: Bhaal on 02/07/2008 20:18:54 Quote: and anyone wanna report his post because make publicity of other game and try to leak players :PPPP Go ahead and use the report button, it's right there... I'm tooling around in Teneusude (sp) atm gathering stuff for FW if anyone wants to come to try and kill me. EDIT: Hey guess what, Server Status unkown again today at home... Sorry I guess you can't come kill me, as for the 5th day out of 6 I can't play EVE from home... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:39:00 - [90] Out of topic, but... Bhaal, Infinity looks very interesting. Do you know if there's an ETA for a beta being rumored about yet? I don't particularly like the background storyline though. But rest looks butter.

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