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Why 425mm AutoCannons?

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Denuo Secus	Posted - 2008.07.01 11:14:00 - [1] Hi, what is the benefit of T2 425mm AutoCannons II? A T2 220mm Vulcan has only 300 m less optimal, same fallof, almost the same damage (19 DPS fewer with 3 gyros on a Hurricane), better tracking and lesser fitting requirements. Same question for large autocannons: Dual 650mm vs. 800mm Repeating. Altough at BS size I can see a bit more difference. My consideration is: Main reason for the biggest gun is better optimal rage (see pulse laser for example). But projectile weapons are working with fallof... Do I miss something? Thanks, Secus
slothe Caldari Murky Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.01 11:24:00 - [2] they suit certain ships, like the hurriaine, or sleipner, when fitted for all out damage against begger ships. Best used in gangs when you have gang mates that can take out frigs.
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.07.01 11:25:00 - [3] I fit 425s (with hail, even, sometimes ) when I know with reasonable certainty that either my targets are going to be overwhelmingly webbed to oblivion, or too big & slow for it to matter.
Segge Bolled Caldari Dirty Sexy Pilots	Posted - 2008.07.01 11:53:00 - [4] As a general rule, I tend to understand the biggest guns in any class are best to be used against the same class of ship they're fitted on or larger - and when you know they won't be screaming across your bow.
Bellum Eternus Gallente D00M. The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.01 12:00:00 - [5] 1) Less ammo consumption. A lot less. 2) More average DPS when taking into account reloading, which can make a difference if you're fighting heavily tanked targets. Personally I usually use 220s over 425s, as I can do more with the extra fitting space, like fit missile launchers, and they track better, thereby achieving better average DPS under higher transverse velocity. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Nocturnal Avenger Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.01 12:11:00 - [6] Originally by: Denuo Secus Hi, what is the benefit of T2 425mm AutoCannons II? A T2 220mm Vulcan has only 300 m less optimal, same fallof, almost the same damage (19 DPS fewer with 3 gyros on a Hurricane), better tracking and lesser fitting requirements. Do I miss something? Thanks, Secus Not really. I only fit 425 (medium), or 800 if: 1) it's no problem with regard to fitting and 2) I "know" I will hit the target almost every time.
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2008.07.01 15:03:00 - [7] Ok, thanks a lot :)
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2008.07.01 15:27:00 - [8] ACs as a rule give less benefit for moving up a tier than other weapon systems. However, fitting aside, the higher tiers are still better than the lower in almost every situation--the difference is just less pronounced than with other guns. So the general idea with AC ships usually ends up being to fit your tank, propulsion, and EW, and then seeing what tier of guns you can cram on there. If you can't fit better than low tier without compromising somewhere else--fine. If you can go better than low tier--go ahead. The higher damage will more than make up for the lower tracking in all but the most unusual situations. Also, ammo consumption, like Bellum Eturnus said. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer	Posted - 2008.07.01 15:43:00 - [9] Originally by: Denuo Secus Hi, what is the benefit of T2 425mm AutoCannons II? A T2 220mm Vulcan has only 300 m less optimal, same fallof, almost the same damage (19 DPS fewer with 3 gyros on a Hurricane), better tracking and lesser fitting requirements. Same question for large autocannons: Dual 650mm vs. 800mm Repeating. Altough at BS size I can see a bit more difference. My consideration is: Main reason for the biggest gun is better optimal rage (see pulse laser for example). But projectile weapons are working with fallof... Do I miss something? Thanks, Secus Not everyone is a *** and likes nano. ----------------- Friends Forever**
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.01 15:44:00 - [10] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Originally by: Denuo Secus Hi, what is the benefit of T2 425mm AutoCannons II? A T2 220mm Vulcan has only 300 m less optimal, same fallof, almost the same damage (19 DPS fewer with 3 gyros on a Hurricane), better tracking and lesser fitting requirements. Same question for large autocannons: Dual 650mm vs. 800mm Repeating. Altough at BS size I can see a bit more difference. My consideration is: Main reason for the biggest gun is better optimal rage (see pulse laser for example). But projectile weapons are working with fallof... Do I miss something? Thanks, Secus Not everyone is a ***** and likes nano. Ya sersyly. I plate my vaga.

Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.07.01 16:35:00 - [11] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 01/07/2008 16:35:25 Im not even sure 425's do more damage than 220's...if they do, its like +5 dps or something silly. --- Its dead, Jim.
Nocturnal Avenger Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.01 16:48:00 - [12] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 01/07/2008 16:35:25 Im not even sure 425's do more damage than 220's...if they do, its like +5 dps or something silly. ffs Jim - you're an old forum warrior. You know better than that. And yes - they do slightly more damage than 220 - Carebear Pirate -
Grann Thefauto Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.01 16:54:00 - [13] I pretty much always use 425s on my cane and only downgrade if I know that I'll be fighting nanos. 425's definitely give you an advantage when fighting ships of your own class or larger.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.01 19:49:00 - [14] Originally by: Grann Thefauto I pretty much always use 425s on my cane and only downgrade if I know that I'll be fighting nanos. 425's definitely give you an advantage when fighting ships of your own class or larger. Less than you think. The % is low (4ish?), and when you take reload times and tracking into account, it's pretty even. You're trading a lot of PG for a 1-2% DPS increase in an extended fight.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2008.07.01 20:50:00 - [15] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Grann Thefauto I pretty much always use 425s on my cane and only downgrade if I know that I'll be fighting nanos. 425's definitely give you an advantage when fighting ships of your own class or larger. Less than you think. The % is low (4ish?), and when you take reload times and tracking into account, it's pretty even. You're trading a lot of PG for a 1-2% DPS increase in an extended fight. The grid doesn't mean anything unless you're sacrificing something else. Hurricane is one of the relatively easy-fit ships where there are decent 425 builds that don't sacrifice anything. Most Minni ships aren't quite so forgiving though. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
ceyriot Entropians on Vacation	Posted - 2008.07.01 21:14:00 - [16] Originally by: Tamoko I fit 425s (with hail, even, sometimes ) when I know with reasonable certainty that either my targets are going to be overwhelmingly webbed to oblivion, or too big & slow for it to matter. TThis is correct - I always fit 220's cause I like em...nothing like instapopping a frigate and yelling "220 VULCANS" in local as celebration =) Faction Store - Killboard
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.01 22:25:00 - [17] PvP 90% of the times favors 220mm's balance of tracking, damage and fitting. For some tight situations, like fitting that Medium Neut in your Vaga etc, Dual 180's can work. In most other cases higher tier 425mms work better - especially against larger targets and of course pve due to less ammo consumption and even that silly bit of extra dmg. Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!
Hudsonn Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.01 23:13:00 - [18] I fit 7 425 II on my sleipnir, and a XL booster tank. It's tight with a Co-pro, but it just about it fits. So if they fit, you might as well. My 425's track even frigs very well. ___________________________ Minmatar Rebel
Nocturnal Avenger Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.02 07:25:00 - [19] Originally by: Hudsonn I fit 7 425 II on my sleipnir, and a XL booster tank. It's tight with a Co-pro, but it just about it fits. So if they fit, you might as well. My 425's track even frigs very well. DG XL booster and you can get rid of the co-proc... - Carebear Pirate -
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.02 09:03:00 - [20] Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger Originally by: Hudsonn I fit 7 425 II on my sleipnir, and a XL booster tank. It's tight with a Co-pro, but it just about it fits. So if they fit, you might as well. My 425's track even frigs very well. DG XL booster and you can get rid of the co-proc... I use 425 II's and XL booster and need no co-proc

Viqtoria Caldari Groping Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.07.02 09:11:00 - [21] 220 vulcans > 300 spartans tbh
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.02 09:21:00 - [22] Originally by: Viqtoria 220 vulcans > 300 spartans tbh laffo


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