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[IDEA] Allow player to unlearn certain skills

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Wikis	Posted - 2008.07.01 17:29:00 - [1] I would like to propose the following feature. Players should be allowed to willingly unlearn certain skills. I know it sounds kinda strange, however here is my reason. I have a perfect Amarr char, only Amarr ship, no industry, nothing unrelated to PVP Amarr. Recently somehow my little bro was toynig with the game and out of best intetions decided to go to Jita and buy and train as many allowed skills as possible. He thought that this will allow the character to expand his capabilities. My skills setup was very nice and clean, only laser guns for instance trained to max, now I have bunch of silly 1 level skills totally unrelated to Amarr and totally unrelated to PVP. Which just makes the picture incredibly unaesthetic. So here is my suggestion - introduce like a option in char sheet pane, where you can click button "unlearn" and willingly get rid of any skill you want. That will automatically adjust Amount of SP. I do understand that it may potentially introduce additional hazzard and security issues, hence the feature can be password protected, or protected by any other means like double confirmation for instance. I'm not exactly mad at my bro, cos I know he wantd to do some good. But I would very much like to get rid that stupid small projectiles level 1 skill in my gunnery and such and such. Thoughts ?
Wikis	Posted - 2008.07.01 17:35:00 - [2] and support ! )
Gabriel Darkefyre Minmatar Crystal Ship	Posted - 2008.07.01 17:41:00 - [3] So let me see if I've got this straight. You allowed your brother full access to your character (and therefore your account) either by logging in and letting him have access (pure negligence on your part and a probable breach of the EULA) or by allowing him access to your password (A Direct EULA Breach(Account Sharing)) Either way, I see no reason here to support unnecessary mucking around with the Database just so that you can have a neater character sheet.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.01 17:43:00 - [4] Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 01/07/2008 17:45:02 The problem I have with that is that it leaves people open to character destruction if, say, an angry ex gets onto the account after a nasty breakup. I like the principle, but I'd stick a limit on it similar to the 12-hour timer for character deletion. How about untraining at a rate equal to your training rate? Obviously, you'd be able to do it as you trained, but it should be difficult for an unwanted user to ruin a character just like it's difficult for an unwanted user to kill a character. Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre So let me see if I've got this straight. You allowed your brother full access to your character (and therefore your account) either by logging in and letting him have access (pure negligence on your part and a probable breach of the EULA) or by allowing him access to your password (A Direct EULA Breach(Account Sharing)) Either way, I see no reason here to support unnecessary mucking around with the Database just so that you can have a neater character sheet. Family members know my Eve password, because my Eve password is the same as my password for a bunch of other stuff. I can't imagine I'm unique in that. I don't think any of them have ever logged in, since none of them know how to play, but they could if they wanted to. Assuming perfect security is wholly unrealistic. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Wikis	Posted - 2008.07.01 17:51:00 - [5] All tru, good reply. On the point of desctruction, there is absolutelly nothing that stops an unwanted unauthorised user to log on and do multiple pod destruction with basic clone. That will have pretty much same effect as unlearning skills. Even more that aspect of the game has zero secuirity on that. If you are not objective to this scenario I do not see any reason why you should be objecting ot introduction of "skill unlearn feature".
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.01 17:58:00 - [6] Originally by: Wikis All tru, good reply. On the point of desctruction, there is absolutelly nothing that stops an unwanted unauthorised user to log on and do multiple pod destruction with basic clone. That will have pretty much same effect as unlearning skills. Even more that aspect of the game has zero secuirity on that. If you are not objective to this scenario I do not see any reason why you should be objecting ot introduction of "skill unlearn feature". A fair point, though that method would take somewhat longer(~3 minutes per podding, assuming you don't have a buddy around in lowsec). My system also deals with accidental misclicks as well - you lose 10 seconds of skill before you fix it, not 2 months. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.01 19:08:00 - [7] 1) TAKE THIS TO FEATURES AND IDEAS DISCUSSION. 2) Many others, myself included, have been proposing a system where a skill can be untrained. One of the sa***uards was that it will take 30 Days for the skill to be actually deleted off a character. And with every log in, the message would Pop UP - "Mining Is Scheduled For Deletion: 20 Days Left" etc, and then, finally, at the end of the 30 day period, you go in and physically click the skills and option pops up "Delete Permanently?" and thats it. Anyway, I support this idea, but I will not issue "thumbs up" because it needs to go where ALL ideas supposed to go - Features and Ideas discussion - not the bloody assembly hall for CSM.
Packtu'sa Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp	Posted - 2008.07.01 22:57:00 - [8] Originally by: Jinx Barker 1) TAKE THIS TO FEATURES AND IDEAS DISCUSSION. THIS. LISTEN TO THE MAN. Also, uhh, extra skills never hurt anybody. Don't like that it's messy? Beat up your brother for it. It's not CCP's business if you violate the EULA which you agreed to. Not supported. Packtu'sa Starbase Fuel Calculator
Kame Malice Minmatar Mitsukashi Holdings Limited	Posted - 2008.07.02 00:26:00 - [9] THIS TOPID HAS BEEN RAISED ALREADY THE EXACT SAME TEXT WAS POSTED NO ONE SUPPORTED IT THEN, AND HE BROUGHT IT HERE DISPITE THAT YOU HAVE BEEN NOTIFIED
Wikis	Posted - 2008.07.02 01:04:00 - [10] Trolls go away , away I said you nasty little pests. Ok, seriously , anyone else feels like giving constructive comments, support/not support ?

Packtu'sa Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp	Posted - 2008.07.02 01:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Wikis Trolls go away , away I said you nasty little pests. Ok, seriously , anyone else feels like giving constructive comments, support/not support ? This thread doesn't really belong here. It is not an issue in any way likely to gain support from 5% of the EVE populace. It is not a fully fleshed out idea, and in fact it doesn't seem to have been discussed in another area prior to now. Even if it were, you provided no evidence of such a discussion, so the CSM has little to work with. This is not a suggestions forum. It is a forum for presenting pertinent issues to CCP. Furthermore, it is an entirely unnecessary addition which solves a problem which is only caused by the convergence of both a EULA violation and an anal attitude about your character sheet. I'll share the same sentiment as is stated in Marcus Gideon's signature. Packtu'sa Starbase Fuel Calculator
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:17:00 - [12] Originally by: Packtu'sa Originally by: Wikis Trolls go away , away I said you nasty little pests. Ok, seriously , anyone else feels like giving constructive comments, support/not support ? This thread doesn't really belong here. It is not an issue in any way likely to gain support from 5% of the EVE populace. It is not a fully fleshed out idea, and in fact it doesn't seem to have been discussed in another area prior to now. Even if it were, you provided no evidence of such a discussion, so the CSM has little to work with. This is not a suggestions forum. It is a forum for presenting pertinent issues to CCP. Furthermore, it is an entirely unnecessary addition which solves a problem which is only caused by the convergence of both a EULA violation and an anal attitude about your character sheet. I'll share the same sentiment as is stated in Marcus Gideon's signature. It's as fleshed out as it needs to be, and its likelihood of getting enough support is for the OP to decide. It's not spam/parody, and it's not unreasonable in any fashion. Furthermore, there's no rule anywhere saying that these topics have to be taken up elsewhere before being posted here - in fact, most of the most successful Assembly Hall threads were posted here without any prior discussion. Don't support it if you don't like it, but it's legit. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Packtu'sa Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:36:00 - [13] Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto It's as fleshed out as it needs to be, and its likelihood of getting enough support is for the OP to decide. It's not spam/parody, and it's not unreasonable in any fashion. Furthermore, there's no rule anywhere saying that these topics have to be taken up elsewhere before being posted here - in fact, most of the most successful Assembly Hall threads were posted here without any prior discussion. Don't support it if you don't like it, but it's legit. Yes, it's within limits of the forum rules, but honestly, how many folks are going to hold this up and say "This is what the CSM is for!" as an example? I'll stop being all anal, but really, let's use the forum for what it's intended for, and the F&I forum for what it's intended for.
Wikis	Posted - 2008.07.02 05:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Jinx Barker 1) TAKE THIS TO FEATURES AND IDEAS DISCUSSION. 2) Many others, myself included, have been proposing a system where a skill can be untrained. One of the sa***uards was that it will take 30 Days for the skill to be actually deleted off a character. And with every log in, the message would Pop UP - "Mining Is Scheduled For Deletion: 20 Days Left" etc, and then, finally, at the end of the 30 day period, you go in and physically click the skills and option pops up "Delete Permanently?" and thats it. Anyway, I support this idea, but I will not issue "thumbs up" because it needs to go where ALL ideas supposed to go - Features and Ideas discussion - not the bloody assembly hall for CSM. I Looked through first 30 pages of IDEAS section and could not find a related thread, where is it ?
Voculus E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.07.02 09:13:00 - [15] _________________________________________________________
shuckstar Hauling hogs	Posted - 2008.07.02 14:28:00 - [16]
SickSeven	Posted - 2008.07.02 16:43:00 - [17] uh, no. Your unhappy because your skill screen is 'cluttered'??? LOL
Grann Thefauto Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.02 18:45:00 - [18] What? Why unlearn skills at all? Just deal with the clutter. You're now more skilled thanks to your brother. I'd be fine with this if we could unlearn then apply that SP to other skills that we would rather have, but I don't think that is going to happen.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.02 18:53:00 - [19] Originally by: Wikis I Looked through first 30 pages of IDEAS section and could not find a related thread, where is it ? It probably went back to 2005/2006 - thread are auto-locked now. So, create a new one. I am just saying it should to to Features and Ideas - not that this is BAD, on the contrary this is something I would use to rid my character of the 2 Industrial skills.
Madam Kaktar Jenova's Witnesses	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:06:00 - [20] Definitely not supported. Only positive is that it could unclutter your skills panel. Negatives: -Allows destruction of character (minor) -Destruction of database performance (major) This would either require an extra table to be joined to subtract unlearned skills when calculating your skillset. Or it would require deleting from the table of skills you learned. If you are unfamiliar with databases, deleting is almost always bad. Allowing deletes can open up security holes. It can create fragmenting in the database. And any loss of the data's history can cause referential integrity problems.

trading hub	Posted - 2008.07.03 05:07:00 - [21] I would definently support the idea. I too have myself a couple of stupid skills which I would like to get rid off. On the technical note, I'm a bit confused why is it do WE [player community] be concerned about it at all ? This is not our job, we are no paid for being concerned technical aspects of the game. On the other hand ofc I appreciate that if someone is showing interest and knowledge of database building then he could do some input, but to me it appears that its totally unconstructive. I'm quite positive that even if you do have knowledge of the certain IT systems you would know what exactly does it take to implement a new feature unless you are an internal dev. With respect to character skill sheets, I've read somewhere back then, that for CCP it costs zero money monet to support and maintain that database, hence they said that they would keep that information infinitely. I'm not an IT specialist, but basing on that I would guess that implementing something like unlearning skill feature should be relativelly easy. +1 /signed
Tmarte Caldari Explora Empire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.03 08:29:00 - [22] Worst Idea ever, and if it's an Idea, you should prolly post it in the Features and Ideas Discussion Forum.
Baron Erique Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.03 11:48:00 - [23]
Douglas MacArthur	Posted - 2008.07.04 10:18:00 - [24] Very good idea, I could use that to get rid of some nonsense skills which I got by mistake +1
TheMailman GreenSwarm Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.12 23:23:00 - [25] Its a feature that is in the game already, you just gotta look a bit closer, tho I admit, it is a bit random. Wait till you go the required skillpoint amount you want to unlearn, above your current clone, and kill yourself. Good luck.
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.07.13 03:04:00 - [26] Hey! This would be awesome! Then I could respec Shadow instead of Holy when we go raid Black Temple this weekend! Holy shit people... can we get serious with this? How do you "forget" months worth of training? Anybody just woke up one morning, and forgot how to drive their car? Or tie your shoes? This isn't WoW, and there aren't wands to wave over a persons head to erase knowledge. While there is the penalties for out-of-date Jump Clones, they aren't selective. Nothing in Eve lore suggests that we have such precision with memories, that we can delete specific areas without harming others. And even if something were made up on the spot, to serve such a purpose... it'll only lead to more problems later on. So you can not only train, but master a skill, and then "change your mind" and erase months of practice and knowledge gained. So what would logically follow, but being able to backup those skills for later. While you're selectively targeting very specific portions of the brain, in order to erase them, you happen to save a copy. Now you ~could~ be a turret Sniper, or not... depending on what you load up at the time. Sounds pretty Matrix-ish for one thing. In fact, why not put that copy of Master Gunnery onto a disk and sell it. Now anyone can just upload Gunnery V immediately, since we know exactly where the memories need to go to make it work. Now everyone is JUST as good as you were. Now we don't even need a Skill Training system. We'll just borrow the skills from the best of every field, and distribute them around the universe. Just plop down your ISK Credit Card, and walk out the door a genius at everything. --- Don't take my rantings personally. I may just be arguing the topic... unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
Lt Graco	Posted - 2008.07.13 03:33:00 - [27] I was trying to figure out a way to make a name for myself in EVE. Supporting the dumbest idea ever seems like it might work. Thumbs up for the utterly ridiculous!
Thorradin State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.14 22:10:00 - [28] This idea is a complete waste of resources. Who cares if you learned an extra skill 'by mistake'?
Plutonian Plutonian Shore	Posted - 2008.07.15 02:17:00 - [29] Originally by: Wikis Recently somehow my little bro was toynig with the game and out of best intetions decided to go to Jita and buy and train as many allowed skills as possible. Wasn't aware Jita stations sold skillbooks. Sorry. You left your account unsecured. This is the horrible, horrible price you must now pay. Instead of asking a development team to devote time, money, and more time to coding in a fix for you... perhaps it would be better to say 'lesson learned'? And deal with the consequences of your actions? For what it's worth, I've skills trained on my accounts which were mistakes... and will never be completed. However, I firmly believe the basis of Eve is that players must suffer the consequences of their own actions for good or ill. So I'll keep those useless skills there and not ask CCP to erase my mistakes. Who knows? Something may get nerfed/boosted someday and I'll have a leg up.
Riho Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.07.15 08:29:00 - [30] id like that. even if you lose the sp id still like to remove some ****ed skills i have :D ---------------------------------- Fighting for Minmatar o7** Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...

Dihania Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.07.15 10:17:00 - [31] I am not able to argue for my decision, I simply to not liek the idea. NO. [hr] Sniggwaffe is recruiting
Siebenthal	Posted - 2008.07.15 13:43:00 - [32] Bad idea.


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