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Languedoc
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Posted - 2008.07.06 01:43:00 -
[1]
Warfare destroys resources, naturally. That said, one usually gets paid for fighting wars.
Eventually, as faction warfare is an ISK sink, participation is going to diminish. First, of course, it'll be the newer players who don't have a lot of ISK/ships to lose. But It'll start to put a crunch on everyone. Also, it takes an incentive away from participating if you can't make anything doing it.
It'd be nice to have some financial reward, as incentive and recompense for ships lost and time spent. LP for capturing plexes, for example. Or, a bit more complicated, some increased incentive for your faction holding systems, day to day.
Anyhow, this post was meant to be about neutrals who loot/salvage gang/fleet battles. Why can't the whole militia shoot with impunity anyone who steals from a militia kill, as it is with corporations? It's damned lame to be fighting a fleet battle and watching some piker in a destroyer waltzing around looting and salvaging your wrecks, then when you're done with the battle having to jump away to wait out a countdown when you kill him.
So CCP: Fix it please.
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.07.06 01:45:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 06/07/2008 01:45:04
The Privateers asked for this forever. Good luck with that.
-Liang
Ed: I suggest you look up "dual wreck ownership" as a starting point.
--
It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved. |
Biatchyka
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Posted - 2008.07.06 01:47:00 -
[3]
1. You joined the Militia, not the Federal Fleet = No pay.
2. It's lowsec, shoot the damn leeches...
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.06 01:52:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Liang Nuren
The Privateers asked for this forever. Good luck with that.
This pretty much. If you've EVER tried to have a war whilst in a busy hi-sec system I can assure you it's much, much worse.
For a good time in the Amarr system (outside EFA station) the wrecks were looted+salvaged so damn fast they might as well have just disappeared into a blackhole. Didn't even appear on my overview. 
...
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Malashek Vatrii
Kaminjosvig
Mournival Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.06 01:58:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Biatchyka
1. You joined the Militia, not the Federal Fleet = No pay.
2. It's lowsec, shoot the damn leeches...
I see employment opportunities coming soon now... "Competitive salary, good working hours, low health & safety".
Malashek Vatrii
Kaminjosvig CEO & Mournival Alliance Diplomat |
Roguehalo
Caldari
RH Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2008.07.06 01:59:00 -
[6]
Reading my other posts you will realise that I think Eve, and more particularly FW, sucks atm.
Having said that I trade ships for a living and I'm making an absolute fortune from FW.
So it's not all bad 
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Languedoc
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Posted - 2008.07.06 02:11:00 -
[7]
Thanks for letting me onto the wreck ownership threads, I read them. Which made me realize that I ought to add something to the above post:
If they leave it the way it is, it's not going to ruin my day. So, if your post starts "Get over it" or "Stop whining", don't bother finishing it.
"So CCP: Fix it please" was a bit tongue-in-cheek, so don't get overexcited.
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Amastat
Caldari
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.07.06 02:17:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Amastat on 06/07/2008 02:20:39
I figured this was going to be the case of FW ever since I participated in the testing on SiSi, and this is main reason why I have not signed up for FW. Unless you have alts that create income, you cannot play FW fulltime - you will be forced to take a few weeks building up the ISK to fund another weeks of **** and pillage.
I suppose that we cant ask for too much a boost of pay for fighting in FW, PvP is a ISK sink no matter where you go - however in most major warfare, in 0.0 in particular, the loot tends to go torwards paying for losses after a fight ends - this is done and decided between the players,a nd set by the corps. The militas on the other hand do not have CEO's, they do not have a board of directors, that put these polcities in place.
FW is also a ongoing fight, without end - they don't have war and peace phases like alliance vs. alliance PvP tend to go. This as a result makes the cost of PvP in a FW a bit more expensive then most other forms of PvP.
So - as a result, players in FW would be forced to withdrawal from the battlezone once in a while, and bear around a bit to pay for another week of fighting - unless they have a efficient alt that creates good revenue while they are busy on their mains in FW.
Even this being the case - you had better hope your alt is a good money maker, and/or be prepared to settle for PvP'ing in garbage trucks. As I said when Empyrean Age first came out, and first noticed during testing - it wouldn't hurt to boost the PvE/ISK part of FW a bit. It would go a long way in making FW a bit more affordable and more on par with other types of PvP as well, in terms of how much money is being produced to pay for the war.
At present, i don't have an alt - so atm, FW for me would result in settling for PvP'ing in battlecruisers, cruisers, t2 frigates, and on occasion a battleship. I could do this for a week, and then likely have to spend the next 1-2 weeks making 1+ billion for the next batch of ships to have blown up.
Versus.
In alliance warfare, I could spent a week or less of downtime making up for losses, and alliance fleet loot would compensate largely for my losses, ontop of other policies that help a lot. Not to mention alliance warfare gives me and a lot of players more reason to go out and blow up, rather then FW.
Not to mention, if your in a proper alliance, the FC's are actually competent and don't lead all of their men into a meat grinder. This drastically reduces the cost of the war.
Unless you don't PvP at all, then FW = PROFIT ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !!!!!
____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Khlitouris RegusII
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Posted - 2008.07.06 02:23:00 -
[9]
I'm making an absolute fortune killing minmatars thx.
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Joe Starbreaker
AnTi.
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.07.06 02:42:00 -
[10]
I think CCP should pay me a salary for going into lowsec and learning how to do piracy, too. It's expensive TBH. Why should I have to run missions and do trades to earn money to fund my PVP learning? If CCP doesn't start paying me an ISK salary I'm going to stop murdering and stealing because the incentives for it are broken. CCP fix it!
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Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.07.06 02:53:00 -
[11]
It depends on how you participate in Factional Warfare.
If you are only engaging enemy player characters in open space PvP, then you will run out of money quickly.
This however ignores the actual occupation of systems and how you go about that.
There are two ways to build victory points to occupy a system, (1) missions that you complete in that system and (2) capturing dungeons in that system. Both should be done in squadrons/gangs of ships of the class the mission or dungeon allows.
1. These missions are assigned by the NPC agents of your militia corp. The offer pay and loyalty points. When the mission is complete it adds to the total VP of the system. The NPC navy you fight in these missions will drop tags that are worth ISK as well as loot.
When you accept a mission however, the beacon appears in that system allowing enemy forces to also enter the mission and stopping you from completing it. I would not suggest shotting mission navy of the faction you are in, it will lower your faction standing and you could find yourself kicked from the militia.
2. Complexes you can search for in any system you want. These also have NPC Navy that drops tags and loot. There are however zero isk or lp rewards for taking these sites. The benefit to working these is that you can at least choose the constellation you are working.
PvP does not fund itself unless you are really really good or defeat a numerically superior force that drops most of its modules and you hold the field, but that is still a net lose for all the pilots involved.
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Lurana Lay
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.06 03:24:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Lurana Lay on 06/07/2008 03:25:21
Quote:
it wouldn't hurt to boost the PvE/ISK part of FW a bit.
Your asking CCP to boost ANY kind of PVE content, even if it's a pvp/pve mixed deal?
HAHAHAHAHA *gasp* HAHAHAHAHA *gasp* *cough*
Are you kidding?
You can now fly 12 jumps in hostile space in a frig so you can enter the gate(asuming you get past the disco BS and/or nanos camping the entrance) to fight a vastly superior NPC gang, oh and your location will appear on the Overview to your enemies.
Asuming you make it all 12 jumps back home with the item needed you might get 5000 isk reward and a few LP. But oh, don't worry because these missions scale and after a few months the rewards will go up! Asuming anyone is crazy/stupid/rich enough to keep doing these. 
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Robert Rosenberg
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.06 05:13:00 -
[13]
Actually the mission payment algorithm is set up so that the longer it takes to complete the mission the more valuable it becomes...
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Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.07.06 05:33:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Liang Nuren
The Privateers asked for this forever. Good luck with that.
This pretty much. If you've EVER tried to have a war whilst in a busy hi-sec system I can assure you it's much, much worse.
For a good time in the Amarr system (outside EFA station) the wrecks were looted+salvaged so damn fast they might as well have just disappeared into a blackhole. Didn't even appear on my overview.
Oh god, truth.
I remember one time at EFA last year, even Chribba's alt army got into it. That was some major loot whorage  .
Click me! You know you want to... |
Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.06 05:39:00 -
[15]
You actually get tags from killing the various faction NPCs, so you can make ISK capturing complexes. Not a lot of isk, granted...
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Sir Scorpion
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Posted - 2008.07.06 05:56:00 -
[16]
I totally agree on the 2nd point it needs to be fixed, and neutral looters should be flagged to fleet for steeling das booty. I canÆt take any more security status hits shooting noob ships that try to take my loot. 
On the first point about getting some returns in Faction war, that should be done at least to some degree, since FW is a job on its self with its very High risks, and atm the rewards are just ôfunö, which dose not pay the bill. Now making this work is very difficult, CCP will have a hard time to get it right. 
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.06 06:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Amastat
In alliance warfare, I could spent a week or less of downtime making up for losses, and alliance fleet loot would compensate largely for my losses, ontop of other policies that help a lot. Not to mention alliance warfare gives me and a lot of players more reason to go out and blow up, rather then FW.
The big difference is that alliances have other sources of income beside PvP and get the control of a territory that should net something (even simply through moon mining).
FW militias have no other sources of income.
So we have a mechanism balanced to work for corp/alliances that can get alternate revenues when doing PvP used for people that can't do the same.
Look the threads about high sec FW fights too. If you are in a militia you could have trouble doing PvE in fat systems as a well organized fleet could easily come and start killing militia members.
I would avoid Motsu/Saila/Jita if you are in the militia.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.06 06:28:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Robert Rosenberg
Actually the mission payment algorithm is set up so that the longer it takes to complete the mission the more valuable it becomes...
But he consider only successful missions in the algorithm.
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Raymon James
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.07.06 06:48:00 -
[19]
/shrugs
the FW missions are crapola for what you end up doing rewardwise. plus if you get a gand the odds are your going to be running them so fast you cant even loot the wreck closest to you. frankly its a joke. but eh.
but if your doing normal missions, usualy my experience is loot+ salvage+ mission reward from one mission coveres my expenses running just level 1s.
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ShardowRhino
Caldari
Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.07.06 07:14:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Languedoc
Warfare destroys resources, naturally. That said, one usually gets paid for fighting wars.
Eventually, as faction warfare is an ISK sink, participation is going to diminish. First, of course, it'll be the newer players who don't have a lot of ISK/ships to lose. But It'll start to put a crunch on everyone. Also, it takes an incentive away from participating if you can't make anything doing it.
It'd be nice to have some financial reward, as incentive and recompense for ships lost and time spent. LP for capturing plexes, for example. Or, a bit more complicated, some increased incentive for your faction holding systems, day to day.
Anyhow, this post was meant to be about neutrals who loot/salvage gang/fleet battles. Why can't the whole militia shoot with impunity anyone who steals from a militia kill, as it is with corporations? It's damned lame to be fighting a fleet battle and watching some piker in a destroyer waltzing around looting and salvaging your wrecks, then when you're done with the battle having to jump away to wait out a countdown when you kill him.
So CCP: Fix it please.
Grind missions,rat or mine for 25% of your normal gaming time per week then spend the rest in FW. FW is meant to create fightng between the 2 empires,not to hand out lumps of isk. We already have that. Anyone that can't put things together on their own need to get their head checked.
Dont fly what you can't afford to lose. Always get insurance. Always keep a mission running ship away from FW. Always keep enough isk in your wallet to upgrade your pod if you happen to get podded. If your wallet says "no you cant participate today" go and earn some isk for a day or two then get back into the fighting.
Last I remember, L1 missions actually gave out frigs as prizes alongside the isk. Add in bounties and loot(which if your new to eve, you should do so). With that said it sounds kind of hard for a new player to not be able to participate in FW most of the time if they spend that 25% i suggest to honestly earn some isk.
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