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Uglok
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Posted - 2008.07.08 21:35:00 -
[1]
Over the course of my time on EVE-Online I've seen various discussions pop up time and time again with valid and not so valid arguments about ship balance. Not all of them are valid, as I clearly mentioned earlier, but one 'bug', as I consider it to be, is the belief that you should be required to train in another race's ships to get the same effect from what your own race's should already provide.
The most common complaints this response is given to is Nanowhine. Just train for one of two ships, a Hugiin or a Rapier I believe it was said. However, people shouldn't be *forced* to train for other ships to combat a specific play-style.
I believe this "Just train outside of your race to be able to play the game" response should be a bannable offense. It's clearly attempting to instigate fights and is borderline insulting to players who shouldn't have to train something else. It's like the constant WoW Whine saying "Just roll another class and forget the investment you've poured into this one" instead of balancing it.
Up with balance! Down with morons who don't know what balance means! 
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Tusko Hopkins
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.07.08 21:46:00 -
[2]
Sorry m8 but I have to disagree.
you are suggesting that every race should be the same? Have the same kinds of ships with the same capabilities so that everything is "fair" and "balanced"?
Yeah sure, EVE could go with a single race. But it would really suck. Diversity 4tw. If you wanna web 30km+, learn matar. If you wanna nos 30km+ learn amarr. If you wanna jam anyone, learn caldari.
First alternate to CSM.
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Uglok
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Posted - 2008.07.08 21:55:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Tusko Hopkins
Sorry m8 but I have to disagree.
you are suggesting that every race should be the same? Have the same kinds of ships with the same capabilities so that everything is "fair" and "balanced"?
Yeah sure, EVE could go with a single race. But it would really suck. Diversity 4tw. If you wanna web 30km+, learn matar. If you wanna nos 30km+ learn amarr. If you wanna jam anyone, learn caldari.
I don't mean make everyone the same. I mean in a lot of ways the races are not balanced when it comes to dealing with specific scenarios. I shouldn't be forced to take 2-3 months to train to fly Minmatar after putting so much investment into Gallente.
I'm merely stating that all those people who tell me to fly another race's ships are harassing me into shying away from the real issues of the game. Balance.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.07.08 22:12:00 -
[4]
You want to carry a big "BANNED" stamp, for all the times someone tells you "L2P NOOB"?
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Don't take my rantings personally. I may just be arguing the topic... unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. |
Farrqua
Minmatar
Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.08 22:18:00 -
[5]
Well I think CCP's idea was to have a MMO that players worked together to compensate for weaknesses. So each race brings a strength and a weakness to the party.
You can only undock with one ship. And from what I am trying understand, your saying you want to be able to address any specific situation that you run across in that one ship you undocked with.
Is this what you want?
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.08 23:54:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Esmenet on 08/07/2008 23:55:41
Edited by: Esmenet on 08/07/2008 23:55:10
There is nothing stopping a caldari from training minmatar cruisers. So if you really want to fly a rapier it doesnt really matter if you train for minmatar cruiser 5 or the new "caldari cruiser ships we stole from the enemy 5" skill. You are not supposed to be able to fly all ships at once, but you are supposed to use teamwork.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.09 01:25:00 -
[7]
So what you're saying is "Nerf forum idiots"? I agree, heartily, but I don't think that's really up to the CSM to decide.
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Fix the forums! |
Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.09 02:25:00 -
[8]
the op needs to stop posting
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.09 02:34:00 -
[9]
The OP has a point.
It makes no sense for any individual empire to completely lack any sorts of counters for a particular strategy the enemy can employ.
And the "nano-issue" is just one of the problems... but the greatest one at this time, so it's over-used as example.
P.S. OP : you forgot to support your own idea 
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The mineral/moonstuff balance || *THE* nanofix
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Uglok
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Posted - 2008.07.09 03:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Akita T
The OP has a point.
It makes no sense for any individual empire to completely lack any sorts of counters for a particular strategy the enemy can employ.
And the "nano-issue" is just one of the problems... but the greatest one at this time, so it's over-used as example.
P.S. OP : you forgot to support your own idea
I was mainly being a sarcastic arse by typing up this post and expected to have a lot of trolls come on and eat it up. Didn't get as many as I thought I would, but still the problem solved itself. Those who understood what I was trying to say deserve recognition. So thanks Akita T.
And pssh. You trolls need to L2Troll. 
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Dirtee Girl
Omega Enterprises
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.07.09 04:14:00 -
[11]
i dont think it's about balance this is about lowering the bar
if you train off race for a specific ability and so on you get that ability as a return on your time investment there are no insta skills in this game nor should there be
eve allows much more freedom that wow because in wow certain classes are trapped your huggin pilot is a huggin pilot and nothing else . eve allows players to be anything so long as they put the time in . if a player has recons 5 then he has recons 5 for any race cruiser he trains to 5 so you do get a bit of a freebie there minus weapons training of course . it's not like you have to train minmatar recons or gallente recons on top of cruiser 5.
so no . also this system makes players realize how precious there time is and not wasting it on non essentials . all your really asking for is for ccp to lower the bar and effectively erase the time investments of many players to make life easier on a few .
too many people who buy chars all of a sudden find out "omg if i want anything new i have to put in the effort" . sorry train it like everybody else did .
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Uglok
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Posted - 2008.07.09 04:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dirtee Girl
i dont think it's about balance this is about lowering the bar
if you train off race for a specific ability and so on you get that ability as a return on your time investment there are no insta skills in this game nor should there be
eve allows much more freedom that wow because in wow certain classes are trapped your huggin pilot is a huggin pilot and nothing else . eve allows players to be anything so long as they put the time in . if a player has recons 5 then he has recons 5 for any race cruiser he trains to 5 so you do get a bit of a freebie there minus weapons training of course . it's not like you have to train minmatar recons or gallente recons on top of cruiser 5.
so no . also this system makes players realize how precious there time is and not wasting it on non essentials . all your really asking for is for ccp to lower the bar and effectively erase the time investments of many players to make life easier on a few .
too many people who buy chars all of a sudden find out "omg if i want anything new i have to put in the effort" . sorry train it like everybody else did .
Again. Not the point I'm trying to convey, which seems to be beyond your comprehension. I guess I'll try to dumb it down a bit.
Every race should have a counter to every other. Does that mean that every race needs a bonus to webbers to stop Nano? No. But currently not every race has a viable means to take out another race's primary strategy. There needs to be a bit more balancing as far as some select areas go.
But again. This post wasn't made in all serious ness, so let sleeping dogs lie.
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MirrorGod
Heretic Militia
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Posted - 2008.07.09 04:46:00 -
[13]
I am amarr
I want a nanoship
...I train a HAC and invent a setup that works for the application I'm attempting.
This is not a hard theory, and ok fine, I can't web from 40K or jam from 190K with my recons, but I can erase your cap with a recon, and you can't. Fact is, with a bit of creativity and intuition, you can configure a ship from any race to excel in any almost any role, and if you want the extra recon hax abilities, well, it's an investment in time to train for.
No support.
Recruitment: [ANTI]
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Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
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Posted - 2008.07.09 05:00:00 -
[14]
I agree with the OP. Each race should be complete in its own right when it comes to the ability to PvP. "Train another ship if you need to fit role X" should be valid...but only within the same race. It would be great, especially with factional warfare, seeing entire fleets of same race ships. Some races, such as Caldari, have problems doing this effectively atm and bear looking at. Until then, I'll keep flying mostly Matari. 
-Wrayeth
n00b Extraordinaire
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Dirtee Girl
Omega Enterprises
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.07.09 05:04:00 -
[15]
your trying very hard to make the point that you should have the counter to everything in one neat little package and that goes against the very fabric of the game . sorry . no .
even if we gave curses every recon bonus possible you would need to train the relevant ecm skills to employ them or should we do away with them too?
the point people are trying to make is if you play one race then you have to learn to employ those strengths and compensate by tactis for the weaknesses .
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.07.09 05:18:00 -
[16]
I see your point, but I do not agree.
The issue is that once everybody has a viable counter to any situation, then people will cry about the one that has the most effective one and you are again at the starting point, just you wasted some game changes without effect.
I think there should be cross-bred ships introduced, like a shield tanking drone boat because Caldari stole some Gallente tech etc, but that would make one hell of balancing them in the end and also remove the race distinction we have now.
--- SIG ---
CSM: your support is needed ! |
Farrqua
Minmatar
Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.09 06:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dirtee Girl
your trying very hard to make the point that you should have the counter to everything in one neat little package and that goes against the very fabric of the game . sorry . no .
even if we gave curses every recon bonus possible you would need to train the relevant ecm skills to employ them or should we do away with them too?
the point people are trying to make is if you play one race then you have to learn to employ those strengths and compensate by tactis for the weaknesses .
Dude, he said it was not a truly serious post. So most of us citizens shrugged and moved on. But damn, apparently you have a point to make.
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Amaldor Themodius
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Posted - 2008.07.09 06:32:00 -
[18]
Have to disagree here. The races are well balanced in my opinion not all races share the same advantages but the overall balance is fine. The more standardised the game becomes the less dynamic pvp experience, and the less vivd the gaming experience.
THUMBS DOWN!!
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MarleWH
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Posted - 2008.07.10 09:22:00 -
[19]
Of course they arn't. Each race has pros in one area, and bonuses in one area. Thats why you stay in a fleet with a curse, rapier and falcon for mega win.
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MenanceWhite
Amarr
Red Light Navy
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Posted - 2008.07.10 11:55:00 -
[20]
Bullshit.
Tell me, just exactly what "other race" is ECM and Neuts?
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Originally by: Torfi
There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses
Originally by: Oveur
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