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Suicide Ganking Complaints - Why now?

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Mazzarins Demise Profit Development and Research Association	Posted - 2008.07.09 21:59:00 - [1] I'm a tad confused with the recent complaints about suicide ganking appearing on the forums during the past few weeks. Mostly because suicide ganking has been around since EVE's inception yet people decide to complain about it and ask for it to be nerfed now? Where were these complaints years ago? What's changed to cause this surge?
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.09 22:03:00 - [2] It's one of the regularly rotated whine topics. Don't worry, in a couple of weeks they'll switch to AFK cloakers again. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Ralara Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.07.09 22:03:00 - [3] They've always been there. Nano and cloak ones though, they've recently had a massive surge for some reason, despite also being around since the beginning of the game. --
hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.07.09 22:05:00 - [4] Bloody privateers! OH SHI-
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.07.09 22:10:00 - [5] Originally by: hedfunk privateers Memories, like the something something something.... - DesuSigs
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.07.09 22:24:00 - [6] Originally by: Mazzarins Demise I'm a tad confused with the recent complaints about suicide ganking appearing on the forums during the past few weeks. Mostly because suicide ganking has been around since EVE's inception yet people decide to complain about it and ask for it to be nerfed now? Where were these complaints years ago? What's changed to cause this surge? Because you can only talk about one subject for so long, before getting worn out on it. Have to take a brake every so often. The high frequence of suicide ganking has been an issue for a while now, since ship prices got so low that suicide ganks became nearly cost free. This resulted in a large increase in suicide ganks, so much that we now have "permanent" (during prime time) suicide camps at many gates in empire, and even smaller mission hubs have a few ship scanning alts. Ships are sploded for "lulz" or km, not just for profit. And why wouldn't they be, it's almost free!
Phintaiss	Posted - 2008.07.09 22:49:00 - [7] Originally by: Mazzarins Demise I'm a tad confused with the recent complaints about suicide ganking appearing on the forums during the past few weeks. Mostly because suicide ganking has been around since EVE's inception yet people decide to complain about it and ask for it to be nerfed now? Where were these complaints years ago? What's changed to cause this surge? The biggest difference is that 2/3rds of the gates in the game are now camped, not the case when I started this game. Twice as many people online, but, same amount of empire space. Many more powerful ships, mods and scripts are now available, and much cheaper, therefore little penality. Security hit, pfft.... A day's ratting in low sec or 0.0 gets your security back. It's just become lopsided as hell. Auto pilot excuses are no longer meaningful, it doesn't matter if warp to zero or not. Uncloak, and get insta pointed, webbed. etc. The intent of Concord is absoutly meaningless now. It's broken. It's gone beyond the the meaning of the play CCP describes in there own rules.
Golden Helmet Caldari The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.07.09 22:56:00 - [8] People will always find something to whine about. In this case, its because they missed the memo about high sec not intended to be 100% safe. Its a common side effect of being a carebear. The Python Cartel is recruiting low sec pirates!
Hurtado Soneka Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.09 23:03:00 - [9] Well said, suicide attacks have been part of real human history for a long time, its a relevant tactic made more logical in the game through the use of clones...so in the end its a question of cost vs damage. Nothing as honourable as dying to see your enemies die with you....or vengeful its all good People whine about it it because they are cowardly and dont play the game properly.
Phintaiss	Posted - 2008.07.09 23:06:00 - [10] Originally by: Golden Helmet People will always find something to whine about. In this case, its because they missed the memo about high sec not intended to be 100% safe. Its a common side effect of being a carebear. I don't think anyone was looking for 100% safe. Just better game play for the money they pay. Those being ganked outnumber the gankers 100 to 1, so I think my money speaks louder than theirs. LOL
Golden Helmet Caldari The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.07.09 23:08:00 - [11] Originally by: Phintaiss Originally by: Golden Helmet People will always find something to whine about. In this case, its because they missed the memo about high sec not intended to be 100% safe. Its a common side effect of being a carebear. I don't think anyone was looking for 100% safe. Just better game play for the money they pay. Those being ganked outnumber the gankers 100 to 1, so I think my money speaks louder than theirs. LOL If they out-number the gankers, then surely theres enough of them to take measures to prevent ganking. Oh wait, their carebears, so by default they get -100% penalty to their intelligence, reasoning, and ability to come up with a solution. The Python Cartel is recruiting low sec pirates!
Kinkie Yuuki	Posted - 2008.07.10 00:55:00 - [12] Drop in ship prices making it very cheap to suicide using a battleship, about 25m or less. Increase in price of complex modules, I used to run a Gist C-type booster that I bought for 500m, sold it a month ago for over a billion. Leading to a massive craze where everyone just has to do it for fun even if you don't make much or any isk in some cases, the risk is very little, 25m suicide bs could be made back in an hour. I've done it a few times in a blaster domi, poor little badgers usually don't survive the first volley. Spent less then an hour waiting for a afk mission loot hauler and made about 50-80m+ each time, which is nice considering I was solo and less then a hour spent on it.
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.07.10 00:57:00 - [13] The fact is the more people that whine about it the more advertising it gets. Every Whine thread is a beacon that yells loud and clear "hey this occupation nets isk and flame threads!". _______________ CCP Atropos > I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.07.10 01:06:00 - [14] Complaints? In EVE General Discussions Forum? What? -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Grarr Dexx Amarr Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.07.10 01:07:00 - [15] Vocal minority etc etc
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.07.10 07:33:00 - [16] Originally by: DubanFP The fact is the more people that whine about it the more advertising it gets. Every Whine thread is a beacon that yells loud and clear "hey this occupation nets isk and flame threads!". And the more it happens, the more likely it is that CCP finally does something to reduce it to previous levels.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.07.10 10:02:00 - [17] Edited by: Roy Batty68 on 10/07/2008 10:04:38 It's a forum phenomenon. You get people saying things like: Originally by: Phintaiss The biggest difference is that 2/3rds of the gates in the game are now camped, not the case when I started this game. Which is totally untrue. But other people believe it and post stuff like: Originally by: Qui Shon And the more it happens, the more likely it is that CCP finally does something to reduce it to previous levels. Sort of a self feeding posting frenzy. Basically you have in-game reality and on-the-forums reality. They're rarely the same. Also, the idea of suicide ganking offends alot of gamers. It's a bit anti-intuitive, if you will. People are a bit shocked to find out that you can indeed profit by getting your ship killed. So this gets alot of attention. People getting ***ed off because, not only are they vulnerable where they (wrongly) assumed they were safe, but the idea that people are making money off of it sends them into a tizzy. "Of course tons of people must be doing it if you can profit so much from it" is the line of thought that makes people exagerate "facts" so often. But what rarely gets discussed is the other side of the coin. Why are there so many targets of opportunity? And tbh, there isn't so many now as there were a year ago. Players have wised up some. There's still the occasional idiot with nothing but cargo expanders fitted and 500 mil worth in the hold. But percentage wise, I think the situation has improved as far as the "stupid player" factor goes. Also, what is rarely discussed is just how much suicide ganking has been nerfed over the past two years. Gate guns have been upped. CONCORD jams faster and goes after drones quicker, etc. Add to that the HP buff and it is certainly not as easy as it once was. So CCP has* nerfed it. Many times. And players have nerfed it as well by fitting and flying smarter. But, in every suicide gank thread you will see someone say something to the effect of, "I don't think it should be totally nerfed, it just shouldn't be so easy". Which is of course someone talking who doesn't really know whether it is easy or not. And it's a total lie whether they intend it to be or not. Why? Because anti-suicide gank threads will exist as long as suicide ganking is possible. It's the nature of players and the nature of this forum. /shrug Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
BritishInvader Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.10 10:20:00 - [18] jihadswarm.com -----+----- Mail : BritishInvader for signature orders.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.07.10 10:21:00 - [19] Originally by: Ralara Nano and cloak ones though, they've recently had a massive surge for some reason, despite also being around since the beginning of the game. Faction warfare. _ *The mineral/moonstuff balance \|\| THE* nanofix**
BritishInvader Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.10 10:21:00 - [20] Originally by: Phintaiss Originally by: Golden Helmet People will always find something to whine about. In this case, its because they missed the memo about high sec not intended to be 100% safe. Its a common side effect of being a carebear. I don't think anyone was looking for 100% safe. Just better game play for the money they pay. Those being ganked outnumber the gankers 100 to 1, so I think my money speaks louder than theirs. LOL EVE is, fortunately, not WoW, and CCP is, fortunately, not Blizzard. -----+----- Mail : BritishInvader for signature orders.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.10 10:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Mazzarins Demise I'm a tad confused with the recent complaints about suicide ganking appearing on the forums during the past few weeks. Mostly because suicide ganking has been around since EVE's inception yet people decide to complain about it and ask for it to be nerfed now? Where were these complaints years ago? What's changed to cause this surge? The frequency of suicide ganks has surged MASSIVELY over the last year or so. Its that simple. In theory, low sec and 0.0 are suspose to be the danger areas, and high sec for those who like things a bit more laid back, but that aint the case. Frankly, I find high sec more hazardous than 0.0 and low sec. You simply can't use Low sec/0.0 security measures in high sec. With rare exception, they either don't work, or its to crowded for them to be viable. Its only in High Sec that I have to station an alt outside a busy station to issue a gang warp order if I undock with valuable cargo. I've a long history of being an advocate for just letting the empire carebears do their thing. After 4 years, I still cant see how an empire "pvper" can view them selves as anything but a bottom feeder. As for simple profit motive, thats more respectable, but its been getting really out of hand this last year. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Gealbhan Caldari Infernal Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.10 11:44:00 - [22] I detonated a smart bomb rigged 'geddon in Amarr yesterday. Took out a Cormorant and damaged some other ships. There was no other motive other than shits and giggles. Would I do it again? Probably. Well, not to Amarr anyway. I'm hoping to do that again to some isk farmers or macro miners though. I probably shoulda/coulda taken out more ships but it was the 1st time I did that and probably made a mistake in not waiting untill there was a bunch of frigates around (mostly BC and BS's outside Amarr anyway). Still, woke up the can baiters a bit didn't it
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.10 11:46:00 - [23] Originally by: Mazzarins Demise I'm a tad confused with the recent complaints about suicide ganking appearing on the forums during the past few weeks. Mostly because suicide ganking has been around since EVE's inception yet people decide to complain about it and ask for it to be nerfed now? Where were these complaints years ago? What's changed to cause this surge? They come round pretty regularly every 3 or 4 months. Have a look back and see for yourself. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.07.10 11:47:00 - [24] It's high security space, not maximum security space :)
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.10 11:54:00 - [25] Originally by: Sergeant Spot The frequency of suicide ganks has surged MASSIVELY over the last year or so. Its that simple. Well, I've noted the threads about suicide ganking increase massively, but then again, most of them are by the same whine posters. Do you have any actual statistics to back up this percieved MASSIVE increase in suicide ganks? Originally by: Sergeant Spot In theory, low sec and 0.0 are suspose to be the danger areas, and high sec for those who like things a bit more laid back, but that aint the case. Frankly, I find high sec more hazardous than 0.0 and low sec. High sec is not more hazardous than low sec or 0.0, and saying that it is is pretty stupid. All space has a measure of danger, and in high sec there are a lot more people. Even so the chance of you getting popped in high sec is significantly lower than in low- or nul-sec. Originally by: Sergeant Spot You simply can't use Low sec/0.0 security measures in high sec. With rare exception, they either don't work, or its to crowded for them to be viable. Maybe not, but you can use completely different security measures. Originally by: Sergeant Spot I've a long history of being an advocate for just letting the empire carebears do their thing. After 4 years, I still cant see how an empire "pvper" can view them selves as anything but a bottom feeder. Originally by: Sergeant Spot As for simple profit motive, thats more respectable, but its been getting really out of hand this last year. The whines have been getting out of hand, yes. The ingame situation, not so much. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Magmain Caldari Domini Umbrus Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.07.10 11:57:00 - [26] I am all for suicide ganking really, I don't take part in the actual ganking. However it is realistic feature and shouldnt be nerfed, it adds flavour to empire.
Kurt Hellfire Caldari Fun Inc	Posted - 2008.07.10 11:59:00 - [27] Somebody once said to me - Kurt, arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics. At the end of........You get where im going with this. Why im replying to this thread? Im drunk and bored and I dont care. The purpose of high sec space is to be safe. Thats why its there. Take a look at the map and see the difference in real estate between high and low/0.0 space. Lot more of the latter ain't there. I love the term carebear cos it refers to a person who would rather spend there time in high sec and make isk than the low sec dudes (who all have high sec alts) who want to stroke thier e-peen. I love low sec and 0.0. Been there, killed had a f...ing ball. But high sec griefers? Go to low sec where the fight is please. Just cos you can kill a freighter in Jita before Concord gets you doesn't make you right, or mean anything other than you are taking advantage of a flaw in the game mechanics that needs fixing. You should be invincible in high sec, thats the whle point of it being there. You want more people to kill? Recruit more into your alliance, war dec, lure guys into low sec in freighters. Do what you can to blow s... up, (ill play bait if you want). But, suicide ganking in high sec is the mark of the weak and is an exploit, regardless of how you try and justify it.
Slave 775 Privateers	Posted - 2008.07.10 12:07:00 - [28] Originally by: Sergeant Spot After 4 years, I still cant see how an empire "pvper" can view them selves as anything but a bottom feeder. And after 3 years i am still surprised by the arrogance of some 0.0 guys. EVE ONLINE Adapt or die ? more like: go and whine on the ForumsÖ
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.10 12:12:00 - [29] I'm still waiting for some actual evidence that the number of ganks has increased. Some actual game data, that is, not just the frequency of forum whines. Let alone that there are "too many". Heck, come to that I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how many would be "just right". All I'm really hearing at the moment is that it's as dangerous as it ever was to go AFK in a ship full of valuables. Why this should be bad for the game or even any kind of surprise to anyone escapes me. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Plumpy McPudding	Posted - 2008.07.10 12:31:00 - [30] Originally by: KISOGOKU Set RA/AAA/shinra/Tri/PL to -5.00 and go to motsu/irjunen tonight after 21.00-22.00 evetime.You can see ''the frequency'' Originally by: Malcanis I'm still waiting for some actual evidence that the number of ganks has increased. Some actual game data, that is, not just the frequency of forum whines. Oh man TWO systems. Clearly suicide ganking is on the rise. __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.

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