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Deldrac
Bat Country
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.07.12 18:16:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Lord Fitz
At the moment were're 10:3 (players not posts) against introducing alliances into FW in this thread, not an extensive survey as of yet, but from where I am looking from it looks like you only see what you want to see.
What? The OP is about *not* allowing FWers into alliances.
I'm not supporting because I don't support locking FWers out of 0.0 and alliances.
There are plenty of threads demonstrating support for allowing people in FW access to the whole game. And those threads also include plenty of straightforward solutions to all the 'problems' suggested here and elsewhere.
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Lord Frost
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.12 19:45:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Lord Frost on 12/07/2008 19:49:20
Originally by: Jade Constantine
75 supports from 108 posts on the ISSUE thread
I'm seeing what players want me to see Fitz. Just because you are very opposed to this measure doesn't make your opinion more important or weighty than the people who do want alliance corps in FW.
I'm not sure exactly how these threads work and how "support" is shown, but frankly there ARE people against FW in alliances, and for some reason thatthread only shows a thumbs up. So that alone tells me there's already a flaw. You're only seeing the support... and support for what? Some thumbs are are support for NO alliances is FW. So what exactly are the numbers? I think Jade is once again trying to spin something in his favor. Of course someone who supports it will show up in the thread and put a thumbs up. The thread is asking for supporters to post. What you don't see are those NOT supporting it.
I can give support to this thread... support as in NO ALLIANCES OR CORPS FROM ALLIANCES IN FW EVER.
There's really no clear understanding... so don't try to mislead us Jade.
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Deldrac
Bat Country
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.07.12 20:17:00 -
[33]
One thing this does demonstrate is why even starting down the road of not allowing FW players into alliances was unwise, purely in terms of community management.
We now have a situation where just letting everyone play the whole game is going to seen by many as taking away entitlements.
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Nicolas Jaweai
Caldari
Tacos Revolution
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Posted - 2008.07.12 21:00:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Nicolas Jaweai on 12/07/2008 21:04:17
Originally by: Jade Constantine
This is eve online not my little pony online. If you don't like wardecs leave the militia and go back to an npc corp. Stop bringing your in-game frustrations as a member of a combat ineffective entity to wider gameplay discussion threads.
Since you want to get personal, how about you undock instead of hiding.
Oh ouch, your right... Oh wait a minute, I think I said I don't mind since we have been kicking your butts all over the place. As a matter of fact we mutualed your new war dec so you COULDN'T back out. I mean come on 58% effectiveness surely you can do better. The point I was making is the so called head of the CSM is doing something to interfer with FW just because they can. While in other threads post your nice little Hello Kitty posts.
Quote:
Part of the reason I got elected in the first place was because the members of pvp corps and alliances that trusted me with their vote knew I wasn't going to take nonsense from the "anti-pvp/instanced eve/total security in hisec" crowd Nicolas. I was elected to promote the interests of part of the community who want to see Eve remain a real and vital combat game with good support for small scale pvp and dynamic consequence. It was made very clear to us in Iceland that CCP appreciate the fact that each CSM candidate has individual interests and represents different parts of the community and collectively we cover a wide range of gameplay specializations and focus. In this matter of FW I am 100% convinced I'm promoting the interests of pvp opportunity in eve AND RP interests, AND the cause of content availability to a broad range of pilots in Alliance corps who nonetheless wish to access FW features and conflict.
Point taken. But, I have to say the "I" this and the "I" that makes you sound like your power tripping. Just like the non facts of your last post. You tell people their opinions don't matter and yours do. That isn't right, EVERYONE'S opinions should matter. I think it's great that Alliances want in FW, more power to them. But, they shouldn't interfer with FW in such away that YOU and YOUR Alliance is. If you want to FW JOIN it, don't war dec corps in FW to make it harder on the new players and give them a bad taste. SF sitting around and picking off players that are new to PvP and chasing them off is sad. Actually, I should say Alliances doing this, not just SF. SF is just the main one causing a headache because we have to go out and put you in your place before we can go out and actually teach new players about PvP.
Quote:
I'm very happy to discuss these matters with people. I've been discussing the implications of FW choices and development options since well before it was released to the live server. Discussion does not automatically = agreement however and in this case I am convinced you are in the wrong and I won't be supporting your opinion.
That's not what you said before earlier in this thread, you said your opinion is the only one that mattered. Again we have the I've, what about We've? Are you saying you're the only one active on the CSM panel? There is no right and no wrong, just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I am WRONG. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean you are WRONG. You know sometimes there's a grey area and there is no right and wrong.
I think what you're doing with SF is wrong, doesn't mean everyone see it that way. I joined FW to FW not to be war deced by an alliance not even involved in FW just because they can and want to prove a point. Doing something out of spite just because you can and to get some cheap noob kills, not that it doesn't happen in FW, make you a very small person in my view. Harassing corps and forcing them to pay for you to drop your war dec and making them move and promise not to form blobs from certain points is lame in my book too.
I understand it's part of the game mechanics, but so was POS bowling...
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Nicolas Jaweai
Caldari
Tacos Revolution
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Posted - 2008.07.12 21:18:00 -
[35]
[Continued]
To quote you from a past post in this thread.
Quote:
For the record its unlikely SF would ever join a militia even if we could for RP reasons so you are wrong to personalize the debate here in the first place.
So why interfere and why get your hackles up when you're called to the carpet about it? If SF has no intentions of joining the militia why war dec FW corps on all sides? I know, because you can and you want to.
That is why I say the rules for war decing a FW corp should be the same thing as an alliance joining. They should be targeted by the navy and they should be a target to ALL militia. That's how alliances should join, just war dec a corp. There should also be stipulations to the war dec. An alliance should have to pay for a month in advance, this so they can't jump around. If the war dec is mutual, they should be locked in to it, just like a regular war dec.
Corps under a war dec shouldn't be allowed to join the militia to prevent certain problems.
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.07.14 12:44:00 -
[36]
I think a discussion is pointless, CCP should continue to design this game according with their ground philosophies. The ground philosophies that (in my view) are: * Sandbox * , as is: The players to the greatest extent decide what happens in the EVE-Universe, good or bad.
In this case the original faction warfare-design (as-is) goes against this very philosophy. Any alliance that dedicates a lot of time to doing Factional Warfare can still do so now, what I mean by that is that any negative consequences that follows with allowing alliances to participate are already there. The shielding of "new PvP:ers" already comes through the militia corps, and extending faction warfare to further deepen the complexities of this game by bringing it out into 0.0 seems in line with reason and good game design.
Faction Warfare in essence is not just a way for people new to the game to easily get into PvP, it also is a means to deepen the involvment for all players, those in alliances or not with the storylines of this game. Not just hardcore RP-alliances wish to make a stand for a faction, other alliances do as well.
To address the argument where people mean that FW would become too dangerous if big entities moved into it, well what are the faction other than big entities? If "Goons" decided to stop dedicating themselves to 0.0 and pursued total dominance of faction warfare, then alliance mechanics isn't going to stop them. Corporations can already support thousands of players, so that is pretty much a moot point. No, the argument against allowing alliances in has nothing to do with the quantity of players into it, it has nothing to do with skilled PvP:ers making younger PvP:ers miserable (because that's already happening with organized corps already being in FW), the argument against FW doesn't even have anything to do with the fact that choices should matter (eg. you either CHOOSE to be in an alliance, or you do not) - because any alliance that join FW and dedicate itself to that already made a choice to stand for that faction, that's the choice involved. The consequence is that said alliance now can be attacked anywhere by the opposing faction. Any alliance that choose not to join will be able to roam free without that same consequence.
I strongly hope CCP will move allowing alliances into FW to the top of the priority-list, and urge people to stand up for this as well.
Black Hand.
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Nicolas Jaweai
Caldari
Tacos Revolution
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Posted - 2008.07.15 00:38:00 -
[37]
I would like to formally apologize (sp?) to SF and Jade for my direct attack on them.
That being said, most of the points I could have made without being a jerk. Now that I have cooled down I see that. I still stand by most of my points on alliances and FW though.
I don't speak for my corp only for myself and my behavior on these forums.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.15 10:33:00 -
[38]
If FW had been introduced at the same time as the alliance mechanics this would not have been such a big problem.
But allowing corporations to make themselves ineligible to take part in FW by committing themselves to an alliance without knowing that they were doing so really sucks. |
Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.08.10 15:35:00 -
[39]
Please add this already.
Black Hand.
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