EVE Search - To the Amarr in service of Ushra'Khan.

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Intergalactic Summit

To the Amarr in service of Ushra'Khan.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Scagga Laebetrovo Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.07.18 12:35:00 - [31] Originally by: Conlin Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Originally by: Telemicus Thrace It has been over a year now since the fall of Unity Station to the CVA and their numerous allies. Unsurprisingly almost a full solar day since it has been brought up again by the Amarr. What was that? I couldn't hear you over the endless bleatings of your co-illusionists about the ills they claim to have suffered under slavery whilst studying at the Pator Tech School...every day... What was that ? , I couldnt hear you over the endless bleatings of excuses . For not fighting !!!! ... every day . You are someone who doesn't consult fact before posting, right? Glad to see there are still people who wear their stupidity on their sleeve. San Matari Official forums
AltBier Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated	Posted - 2008.07.18 15:18:00 - [32] Perhaps people like Thrace would see things differently if all Amarr stopped enslaving women and children ...
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.19 01:44:00 - [33] Now now Conlin, for all the irrelevant gibberish he spouts here I have heard his own people sing songs to Scagga's bravery.... Quote: Bravely bold Lord Scagga Rode forth from Derelik. He was not afraid to die, Oh brave Lord Scagga. He was not at all afraid To be killed in nasty ways. Brave, brave, brave, brave Lord Scagga. Brave Lord Scagga ran away. Bravely ran away away. When danger reared it's ugly head, He bravely turned his tail and fled. Yes, brave Lord Scagga turned about And gallantly he chickened out. Bravely taking to his feet, He beat a very brave retreat. Bravest of the braaaave, Lord Scagga Join Kinda'Shujaa
Scagga Laebetrovo Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.07.19 08:39:00 - [34] Was that sung by the TLF rapier, vagabond or t2 fitted rupture we took out yesterday afternoon? San Matari Official forums
Conlin Gallente Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.19 09:07:00 - [35] Edited by: Conlin on 19/07/2008 09:08:26 Some day you will find yourself Scagga - and wish you hadnt ....
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.19 12:32:00 - [36] Claims of Delictum, or any of its pilots, not fighting, are more a testament of ignorance on part of the proclaimer than a burden of shame for Delictum. Oh and perhaps the crowing savages should read the OP again, before overrunning yet another thread with the hateful beating of their bongos. ----------------------------------------------
Shern Minmatar Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.07.19 16:47:00 - [37] We ammatar fight for our people and our lands hard, cos we know we have to. Shame on any who accuse my lord of cowardice !
Conlin Gallente Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.19 17:18:00 - [38] Originally by: Gaius Kador Edited by: Gaius Kador on 19/07/2008 12:39:46 Claims of Scagga, or any of his pilots, not fighting, are more a testament of ignorance on part of the proclaimer than a burden of shame for Scagga and the Ammatar. Oh and perhaps the crowing savages should read the OP again, before overrunning yet another thread with the hateful beating of their bongos. Never mistake pity for hatred Gaius . Who am I to argue with a slaver who is so ashamed , he has to hide his face . Can I have my coconuts back tel ?
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.20 00:00:00 - [39] Originally by: Conlin Can I have my coconuts back tel ? No, I traded them with Pars for a new nose bone and some shiny beads. Join Kinda'Shujaa
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.20 01:22:00 - [40] Have a Brutor join the carnival, and the derailment will be complete. ----------------------------------------------

Parsor Evarkis Minmatar Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.21 00:59:00 - [41] Sorry Conlin, don't look at me, I traded them to Micia for some of his used reactor core fluid. Need all I can get, brewing another batch of my special brew I do have some more shiny beads if you like.
Micia Minmatar Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.21 03:54:00 - [42] Uh... those shells were Conlin's? Sorry. I've already traded them to Tagami Wasp for some mannequins, to be used in an animatronic art installation that myself and a Gallente friend have been working on. It's entitled "Khumaak at Dawn", by the way.
Gottii Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.21 04:12:00 - [43] Originally by: Gaius Kador Have a Brutor join the carnival, and the derailment will be complete. Someone asked for a Brutor? I left my bongos in my other pod though....
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.21 09:17:00 - [44] A Brutor without a bongo... must be something akin to heresy in your sticks & stones culture. How about the 'Amarr' in your ranks then, do they carry any? ----------------------------------------------
Conlin Gallente Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.21 11:12:00 - [45] Never trust a brutor with your coconuts *Wanders off into Providence singing "oh what a lovely bunch o coconuts !!"
Tagami Wasp	Posted - 2008.07.21 19:07:00 - [46] Originally by: Micia Uh... those shells were Conlin's? Sorry. I've already traded them to Tagami Wasp for some mannequins, to be used in an animatronic art installation that myself and a Gallente friend have been working on. It's entitled "Khumaak at Dawn", by the way. Coconuts! Are you sure? That's why they tasted funny? Need to get more. :)
Veron Daerth Amarr Blood Meridian	Posted - 2008.07.21 23:41:00 - [47] So, I am still curious as to what the reaction would be if a drop-ship of Matari and non-Matari "liberators" landed on the planet that holds one of my estates. There they would find settlements, villages and towns of slaves, manumitted slaves, freeborn non-Amarrians, Amarrian citizens, and expatriates of several of the various cultures of the cluster. All mixed and matched amongst each other. Most of the slave villages are semi-self governing, and have an appointed chief, usually an elder or group of elders that have completed the term of service to me and have been released. Does this make the elders and their families (most of which are serving their terms of service, and are therefore by definition, slaves) guilty of supporting slavery? Does it entail their deaths at the hands of those that would save them? Perhaps only a few of those families have to die? What of the freemen, the commoners that serve me. What of those of Jin-Mei, Khanid, Gallente, Caldari and other origins that work and serve me? The men and women that my father had hired to streamline and update our manufactories and farms? What of the families of those that came here to do this and stayed for one reason or another? Are they guilty of "slavery" and do they die too? How about the peoples of the villages and towns that do not own slaves, but work in the Admin sections of my factories and farms? Is a clerk that types out work orders a slaver? Does he or she have to die for doing a job? How about the line managers of the factory floor? Some are slaves themselves, some former slaves, some are freedmen, some are freeborn commoners. How do you separate them, and how do you tell which is which? Who dies here? On the planets that rely on slave labor to function economically, what do you do when the economy collapses, when they begin to starve because there isnt enough food being produced to feed the population? Spout your platitudes all you want, but you cant take a city born person or anyone that has no experience with farming and put them on a farm and expect it to actually produce anything. Some might luck into getting some things right, most wont. What do you do for those that suffer from this? Anything? When the starving populace rises up and attacks you because they are starving and dying, do you ruthlessly crush the rebellion? Do you expect them do all die quietly? What do you do for the children? Anything? How about the factories and plants that produce clothing, food, medicine, material goods, building products. All these require trained workers, the majority of which you just "liberated" and presumably took away. How do you propose to address this? It is all well and good to talk of "freeing the slaves", of "simply letting them go". That is an illusion. It is also foolishly dangerous. The best way to end slavery is to destroy the conditions that allow it to persist. To "phase in" the concept of paying slaves, and affording them progressively more and more personal choice. Given time, this concept would end with the release of all the slaves, actually, not their release, but their integration into Imperial society as common citizens, with all the rights and responsibilities thereof. But, that takes too much time, I suppose. Its too bad, if it actually happened, I think Amarr would actually become the beacon of hope it was always meant to be. Too bad that there just isnt enough time. <Veron Daerth laughs sadly> Time, ask me for anything but time. <Veron Daerth snorts and shakes his head sadly> God grant you all the same mercy you show to those that cannot resist you. God grant you all the wisdom to know when that mercy is warranted.
Veron Daerth Amarr Blood Meridian	Posted - 2008.07.21 23:49:00 - [48] Edited by: Veron Daerth on 21/07/2008 23:50:05 And Pilot Subaka raises a good point. What of those that would seek to not return? Most of the slaves that serve me would not, and for those that would, there are already measures in place to have them released. I do not harbor those that would seek to harm me or destroy all that I have worked to build. Most of my slaves are generational ones, their fathers, and grandfathers and great grandfathers and so on, have served my House from time almost immemorial. I have spoken to them, and they know they can speak truth to me and not be punished if I dont like it. All that remain, remain of their own accord. They are not even slaves of mine anymore, really. They are more in the nature of retainers, and serve and are released and rewarded when they are released. The term "slave" is necessary in the current atmosphere of the Empire, especially with the fanatics making a new rise to power. What happens if they refuse to leave? Do you make them? Do you separate their children out from their parents and take them back to Matar? Do you try to leverage those children against their parents? To use them as a bribe or a hostage perhaps? Who decides these answers, and why? Does the drop-ship commander? His ship captain? The Fleet commander? Is there a civilian that is appointed to speak to those that you wish to liberate? God be with you all, God grant us all his enlightenment.
Illuvian Gallente Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.07.21 23:50:00 - [49] Mr. Dearth, my reaction would of course be to say that those still "fulfilling their terms of service" are done with that term. If they want to keep working for you for pay, then that is all well and good, if they want to leave then the planetary shuttles would be willing to take them to Republic space. If you or any of your employees attempted to resist that from being enforced then they would be appropriately punished. Of course that is just my point of view. Metus improbos compescit, non clementia. It is fear, not kindness that restrains the wicked.
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services	Posted - 2008.07.21 23:57:00 - [50] Originally by: Shern We ammatar fight for our people and our lands hard, cos we know we have to. You are fighting for "your" people and "your" lands ... in Metropolis? -- Becq Starforged The Flame of Freedom Burns On!

Chema Opulat Delictum 23216 San Matari.	Posted - 2008.07.22 00:21:00 - [51] Originally by: Becq Starforged Originally by: Shern We ammatar fight for our people and our lands hard, cos we know we have to. You are fighting for "your" people and "your" lands ... in Metropolis? Ammatar home = Ani constellation yes? No more bad communication!
Veron Daerth Amarr Blood Meridian	Posted - 2008.07.22 00:26:00 - [52] Pilot Illuvian. I currently pay all my slaves a stipend, based on a (small) percentage of the profits made from their labors. The rest of the profits are then re-invested in housing, clothing, food, medical care, and such (explained here) and other projects that make them better workers and ensure their continued care. I am not in a position to keep providing these things and still pay them a wage commensurate with what a Gallente or Caldari citizen makes for an equivalent amount of labor. Would I have to continue to provide the current things that I do, and still pay them? Do I begin (as the landowner and Lord Holder of that area) to collect rents for their housing and homes? What about the educations I provide? Do they suddenly have to pay for that too? Would the wages that I could provide based on my total profits cover all of this? (I can tell you it wouldnt) How would they make up the difference? What about the villages themselves? I own that land, and I own the factories and farms. Do I simply give them to my newly freed slaves. (thereby reducing my ability to provide a sufficient wage even more by reducing my income?) Also, would they be enrolled as citizens of the Empire (since the space is still Empire sovereign space) or of some other polity? I hold my lands and assets in fief to the regional Holder, who holds that region of space in fief to the Sector Holder and so on and so forth up to the Empress Herself. (little though I like her) As commoners of the Empire, and living in my Holding, they would become beholden to me just as their fellow citizens are. I govern (actually my appointed magistrates govern for me) these lands just as do all other Holders (feudal society). I enact laws and rules in accordance with Amarrian custom (and frankly, my will). I levy taxes and raise troops in times of need. Those that live on my land are sworn (in one way or another) to me or to abide by my laws. (one of the big reasons that the Empire is a crazy-quilt of sometimes conflicting laws and rules each applying only to their immediate locality) Now, most of those laws arent anything you would find objectionable (dont steal, dont kill, etc) but some (such as those dealing with punishment for public display of nudity or public indecency for example) would offend many from the Federation. (I have no idea how the Matari see this issue) Do you overturn all my rulings or just some. Who decides. Do I (as the local government) get a say? Do my appointed magistrates still make rulings on laws and decide the outcomes of trials? Are my courts nullified? It is these and a host of other questions that plague me. I am responsible for the governance of my lands and Holdings. I am responsible for the ultimate care and oversight of those that are sworn and beholden to me. If you have rad of how my Holdings work, then you know of the care and attention that I have invested in them. I would be less than a Lord Holder if I did not ask these questions. As yet, none of my Holdings lay in jeopardy of being overrun. But they might in the future, and I wish to know what terms are being offered to me and mine should that happen. Also, there are several thousand soldiers and guards that have been sworn to my House. Some are slaves, some are not. Do they face execution for holding to their oaths to me? Do their families? God grant you Light and Mercy, Pilots.
Illuvian Gallente Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.07.22 00:38:00 - [53] The core issue with slavery is not the system of work that it provides for; as far as I am concerned housing someone, feeding them, and giving them a stipend is the equivalent of a salary. The real issue here is choice, if a slave asks to go... can they? If I recall correctly, you would allow a slave that requested to leave that right; however, that freedom is certainly not shared by the majority of those in the 'care' of the Amarr Empire. The current society of the Empire does not allow for this, choice is gone and with it the freedom for the Tribes to determine their own direction. Add on top of this the illegal kidnapping of Matari Citizens, the buying and selling of our people and all this silliness regarding a "reclaiming" and your government has created a crisis, one which unfortunately seems that will only be solved with blood. Metus improbos compescit, non clementia. It is fear, not kindness that restrains the wicked.
Kohiko Sun Caldari Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.07.22 01:03:00 - [54] It is sad to see that an interesting question is met by the childish antics that I have seen here. I suppose now we will never know the answers to the original question posed thanks to the blind derision and obfuscation that has been displayed. Still, such acts do answer questions of another type, yes? The children do not like scrutiny. This is where I found my sig.
BloodBird Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.07.22 01:38:00 - [55] Yet again, a tread is derailed by the imperialists and Matari supporters as they argue against one another, bickering like CHILDREN, never learning nor realizing they never sway nor convince their respective opponents of the error of their ways. And while you do that, the message voiced in the OP (that would be MINE) is drowned out. I've said it before, and I will say it once more as my patience is not totaly eradicated yet. I'd like any and all supporters of the Matari cause that are of Amarrian origin, hopefully those with family, friends or ties in the Empire and/or the Kingdom, to speak up and tell us all what you think of this. Some Freedom fighters, and thus some supporters of the cause you support, think that killing citizens of the Empire and the Kingdom to be the same as liberating their people. They seem to think that, while their people needs saving, their nominal opponents, the Empire and/or Kingdom, deserves to die, and are all to eager to make sure that happends. I say this is wrong, but that is one man's oppinion and I am not in any kind of power in either the Empire, Kingdom or Republic. This is why I wonder what you think of this. I'd truly like to know that, so, if anyone part of UNITY, EM or any other pro-matari faction see this, please respond. And to all else, unless the matter touches on this issue, do not respond to this tread. Sig source


Pages: 1 [2] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.