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Meridius	Posted - 2004.05.23 05:02:00 - [1] Whats so special about this ship exactly. All other tier1 battleships have something special about them that is different from there tier2 big brother. The scorp is the ew jamming godess, the domi is a great drone carrier, the typhoon is a solid all around ship. Looking purely at stats, the geddon is a low class apoc, the only thing seperating them is the one extra lowslot it has and it can carry 1000m3 more of drones, big deal. It looses out bigtime by having the least cpu and lowest amount of midslots of all bs's. So what i'm asking is that do you all think its a good ship for anything besides mining? I know it can armor tank well but so can an apoc. Does it have anything special that its big bro doesnt? ________________________________________________________
TimeKeepr	Posted - 2004.05.23 05:20:00 - [2] Edited by: TimeKeepr on 23/05/2004 05:27:00 i guess youre right, ive been flying an arma for the past several months, and really theres nothing that makes it a choice over an apoc other than having 1000m3 more drone bay, and 1 more low slot...but those arent very compelling reasons when the apoc has more cpu ,powergrid, armor, shield, structure, turret points, mid slots, missle points, capacitor, cargo space, and capacitor skill bonus. edit: its really a shame when i consider it the best looking bs, its turret placement is really cool
FireLord	Posted - 2004.05.23 06:13:00 - [3] the extra lowslot give it more ability to armour tank i'd say
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.05.23 06:39:00 - [4] Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 23/05/2004 06:42:27 not really, it lacks the grid for that, and the bit of extra resistance you get with that extra armour hardener is greatly offset by the loss of that extra cap recharger (compared to 4 med slots on an apoc) not to mention you probably want grid for lasers and stuff they used to be very very popular at the beginning due to their 8 low slots.. which meant more damage.. since dmg mods would stack, that 8th one would end up making it outdamage an apoc arma is a solid mining ship, battleship hauler, and good npc hunting ship (i guess) but it sucks for pvp like no other its only role would be a cheap and powerful cap/shield transfer ship maybe, since all other tier one bships can do any other task better in pvp _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
TimeKeepr	Posted - 2004.05.23 08:14:00 - [5] Originally by: DigitalCommunist they used to be very very popular at the beginning due to their 8 low slots.. which meant more damage.. since dmg mods would stack, that 8th one would end up making it outdamage an apoc EXACTLY this is the reason why i didnt go for an apoc for a while, because my arma would have actually outdamaged it, but thats not the case anymore. i remember spending whole days hunting npc's for better damage mods...haha, such is not the case anymore.
Larno	Posted - 2004.05.23 20:52:00 - [6] Edited by: Larno on 23/05/2004 20:56:08 I think one of the following is in order for the Arma: 1 Extra Med slot 1 Extra Turret 1 Missile Bay a) Med slot would allow you to use that extra cap recharger. If you are using a MWD, that's 50% more cap rechargers because you only have 2 to start with. People say med slots are for 'doing' things. An extra med slot may be too powerful though. b) Extra turret would mean that it could use an extra weapon to allow it to out damage the Apoc (has 5% ROF bonus where Apoc doesn't) and would make it a good cheap miner. Would change game economy a lot b/c best miner would only be 65% of original cost and people couldn't use Apoc for both mining and PvP c) Allow it to use it's 8th Hi slot for something useful. Would also allow it to get more damage than Apoc. I don't think it should get any HP bonuses or PG/Cap upgrades, but maybe increase the CPU to 500 like the Apoc? What do you think? :)
AlphA13	Posted - 2004.05.23 21:06:00 - [7] a armageddon is quiet cheap so use it as it is said in description ... fit short range laser and fight close and armor tanked In two days tomorrow will be yesterday
Meridius	Posted - 2004.05.23 21:19:00 - [8] Edited by: Meridius on 23/05/2004 21:21:29 Originally by: Larno Edited by: Larno on 23/05/2004 20:56:08 I think one of the following is in order for the Arma: 1 Extra Med slot 1 Extra Turret 1 Missile Bay a) Med slot would allow you to use that extra cap recharger. If you are using a MWD, that's 50% more cap rechargers because you only have 2 to start with. People say med slots are for 'doing' things. An extra med slot may be too powerful though. b) Extra turret would mean that it could use an extra weapon to allow it to out damage the Apoc (has 5% ROF bonus where Apoc doesn't) and would make it a good cheap miner. Would change game economy a lot b/c best miner would only be 65% of original cost and people couldn't use Apoc for both mining and PvP c) Allow it to use it's 8th Hi slot for something useful. Would also allow it to get more damage than Apoc. I don't think it should get any HP bonuses or PG/Cap upgrades, but maybe increase the CPU to 500 like the Apoc? What do you think? :) I don't think the answer is the arma outdamaging an apoc, that just doesnt make any sense I wouldn't mind if it lost a turret slot, gained 2 midslots and lost 1 low slot. It could still keep the 7 highslots and with the new midslots it would make a really good support ship. ________________________________________________________
Larno	Posted - 2004.05.23 22:02:00 - [9] Right now... 8 High 3 Med 8 Low 7 Turret 0 Launcher Maybe this would be more fitting: 7 High 5 Med 8 Low 7 Turret 0 Launcher You can't take away the turret or the 8th Low slot because that's what makes it an Armageddon. Mining with 6 lasers would just suck, because then you are doomed to using 100mil BS's to mine. You can't take away any med slots because then it would just be a piece of junk. You can't take away the 8th low slot because it loses a lot of cargo capacity and no other ship has the 8th low slot. Which leaves us with taking away the 8th High slot. It doesn't really need this apart from missile defence, so it's not very useful, but on the other hand 2 med slots in it's place would really help without making it overpowered.
dalman	Posted - 2004.05.23 22:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Larno Edited by: Larno on 23/05/2004 20:56:08 I think one of the following is in order for the Arma: 1 Extra Med slot 1 Extra Turret 1 Missile Bay a) Med slot would allow you to use that extra cap recharger. If you are using a MWD, that's 50% more cap rechargers because you only have 2 to start with. People say med slots are for 'doing' things. An extra med slot may be too powerful though. b) Extra turret would mean that it could use an extra weapon to allow it to out damage the Apoc (has 5% ROF bonus where Apoc doesn't) and would make it a good cheap miner. Would change game economy a lot b/c best miner would only be 65% of original cost and people couldn't use Apoc for both mining and PvP c) Allow it to use it's 8th Hi slot for something useful. Would also allow it to get more damage than Apoc. I don't think it should get any HP bonuses or PG/Cap upgrades, but maybe increase the CPU to 500 like the Apoc? What do you think? :) That the arma is just fine. With the changes on TQ, the arma absolutely rocks. In the above quote, I see alot lack of experience... For example: * Anyone who is armor tanking with cap recharge, will already use 3 lowslots for relays and at least 1 med for a recharger. The other way to tank is by using heavy cap injectors... Adding 1 more medslot would make it extremely powerful, better than most tier 2 BS. * That the arma can't fit a turret or launcher in the last slot doesn't mean that slot is useless. Rather the other way, it's VERY useful. Suggested modules to put there: 1 Smartbomb. Medium smartbombs helps ALOT against missile ships. Especially against the torps post-patch. Large smartbombs can be of very good use against frigates. And of course also against drones. 2 Cap modules. Ie, nosferatu or neutralizer. Again, a very useful module. Especially against frigates and shield tanks post-patch. 3 Support modules. With the possibility to have very good cap recharge on the arma, a shield or energy transfer used to boost a friendly ship when it gets into trouble can be very good. * The arma doesn't need an extra weapon to outdamage an apoc. With the ROF bonus, 7 guns on an arma deals alot more damage than 8 guns on an apoc... Though, it doesn't have the insane cap of the apoc. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30

dalman	Posted - 2004.05.23 22:52:00 - [11] Originally by: Meridius Whats so special about this ship exactly. All other tier1 battleships have something special about them that is different from there tier2 big brother. Originally by: Meridius I don't think the answer is the arma outdamaging an apoc, that just doesnt make any sense You've already answered your question... The arma does outdamage an apoc. That's what makes it special. And the extra drone space and the extra speed is a nice bonus. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
SKiNNiEH	Posted - 2004.05.23 23:30:00 - [12] The Arma should have its bonus replaced.. The ROF bonus is no good, it should be replaced with 5% to damage per level. Other than that, its the best looking battleship in the game :) -------
Centauri	Posted - 2004.05.24 01:34:00 - [13] I've flown one before, and I don't think it'd be gonig out on a limb to say that in fleet PvP it makes a superior gun platform. It can do quite a lot of damage, and as a gunship, I think it's one of the best. Centauri, Former Fleet Admiral of Star Control
Finderne	Posted - 2004.05.24 03:54:00 - [14] what's the difference between a ROF bonus and a dmg bonus? It doesn't burn through ammo, so that's not an issue.
SKiNNiEH	Posted - 2004.05.24 06:18:00 - [15] It has less cap than the Apoc, so i'd rather deal more damage than have cap problems when training up Amarr BS skill. Imo, having to turn off stuff in battle to keep the cap up is not the way to go. -------
StoreSlem	Posted - 2004.05.24 06:35:00 - [16] ROF bonus gives +33% damage at l5 compared to only 25% for dmg bonus.
Meridius	Posted - 2004.05.24 07:16:00 - [17] Originally by: dalman Originally by: Meridius Whats so special about this ship exactly. All other tier1 battleships have something special about them that is different from there tier2 big brother. Originally by: Meridius I don't think the answer is the arma outdamaging an apoc, that just doesnt make any sense You've already answered your question... The arma does outdamage an apoc. That's what makes it special. And the extra drone space and the extra speed is a nice bonus. How exactly are you going to outdamage an apoc with an arma? You don't have the grid to put up as many megas/tachyons as an apoc can. Also, don't forget that the ROF bonus just means that you drain your cap faster. It's not like your going to be outputting a lot of damage in the first place ________________________________________________________
Spanker	Posted - 2004.05.24 07:21:00 - [18] Price
Clipped Wings	Posted - 2004.05.24 08:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Larno Right now... 8 High 3 Med 8 Low 7 Turret 0 Launcher Maybe this would be more fitting: 7 High 5 Med 8 Low 7 Turret 0 Launcher Just for fun, let's compare with a Dominix, then. 6 high 5 med 7 low 6 turret 0 launcher ...So I reall fail to see why the Armageddon should need more medslots? It's not meant to be a shield tank or EW platform? Just FYI, The arma has 8 highslots, as opposed to the Dominix's 6 highslots, or the Scorp's ditto. (Granted, the Scorp isn't meant to be the uber damage dealer) Originally by: Larno You can't take away the turret or the 8th Low slot because that's what makes it an Armageddon. Mining with 6 lasers would just suck, Aye, imagine a battleship with only 6 mining lasers? Oh, the horror. /sarcasm Originally by: Larno because then you are doomed to using 100mil BS's to mine. You can't take away any med slots because then it would just be a piece of junk. You can't take away the 8th low slot because it loses a lot of cargo capacity and no other ship has the 8th low slot. Which leaves us with taking away the 8th High slot. It doesn't really need this apart from missile defence, so it's not very useful, but on the other hand 2 med slots in it's place would really help without making it overpowered. Without making it overpowered? Lemme guess, you'd really want that shiny Arma of yours to be laying waste to people with 5 medslots, 8 lowslots, and 7 turrets blazing? Doesn't seem like balancing. Seems more like biased opinions, masquerading as fairness, tbh. -Clipped Wings of LFC "I believe in the theoretical benevolence, and practical malignity of man." ~William Hazlitt
fras	Posted - 2004.05.24 09:20:00 - [20] I think the extra grid the arma will recieve in the up coming changes might make it a viable pvp ship again. It'll have the grid for a couple of repairers and a rack full of dual heavy beams, it just depends on wether people are willing to try it out and shake off it's carebear reputation. The only thing I'd add to the changes is a little more cpu, it really is pitifully and unfairly short in that area compared to all the other tier 1 BS.

Brian Detaah	Posted - 2004.05.24 09:55:00 - [21] Well, it just important to remember that the apoc is supposed to be a better ship. The armageddon gives a lot of mining bang for the buck and is a hell of a lot cheaper than the apoc. People arent complaining that the osprey cruiser is a worse combat ship than the moa. ------------------------------------------------ `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.' `The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.' `The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's all.'
dalman	Posted - 2004.05.24 12:01:00 - [22] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: dalman Originally by: Meridius Whats so special about this ship exactly. All other tier1 battleships have something special about them that is different from there tier2 big brother. Originally by: Meridius I don't think the answer is the arma outdamaging an apoc, that just doesnt make any sense You've already answered your question... The arma does outdamage an apoc. That's what makes it special. And the extra drone space and the extra speed is a nice bonus. How exactly are you going to outdamage an apoc with an arma? You don't have the grid to put up as many megas/tachyons as an apoc can. Also, don't forget that the ROF bonus just means that you drain your cap faster. It's not like your going to be outputting a lot of damage in the first place Like Storeslem already has expained: "ROF bonus gives +33% damage at lvl5 compared to only 25% for dmg bonus." Most people in this game doesn't seem to understand that a ROF bonus is much better than a damage mod bonus when looking at damage/second. With BS lvl 5, a lasers on an arma deals 33% more damage than on an apoc. That is, an arma mounting 6 lasers deals as much damage as an apoc using 8 turrets. (though the 6 lasers on the arma will also use as much cap as the 8 on the apoc) Or, you can view it like this: A DUAL HEAVY BEAM FITTED ON AN ARMA DEALS 9% MORE DAMAGE/TIME THAN A TACHYON BEAM FITTED ON AN APOC (with battleship lvl 5) M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
SKiNNiEH	Posted - 2004.05.24 13:16:00 - [23] My reasoning is that with the ROF bonus will also come cap problems, this is not the case for the damage bonus. When you train up the BS levels, it becomes harder and harder to run the same stuff. For projectile-ships i can understand the ROF bonus completely, but for lasers i'd rather have the damage bonus and preserve my (precious) cap. -------
Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2004.05.24 13:58:00 - [24] Edited by: Kaylona Tso on 24/05/2004 14:01:08 Originally by: DigitalCommunist Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 23/05/2004 06:42:27 not really, it lacks the grid for that, and the bit of extra resistance you get with that extra armour hardener is greatly offset by the loss of that extra cap recharger (compared to 4 med slots on an apoc) not to mention you probably want grid for lasers and stuff they used to be very very popular at the beginning due to their 8 low slots.. which meant more damage.. since dmg mods would stack, that 8th one would end up making it outdamage an apoc arma is a solid mining ship, battleship hauler, and good npc hunting ship (i guess) but it sucks for pvp like no other its only role would be a cheap and powerful cap/shield transfer ship maybe, since all other tier one bships can do any other task better in pvp Why not put 7 720mm protos on it and 'boom' instant pgrid availability with battleship-like damage. 3 tech 2 cap chargers, 1 tech 2 dmod, 1 relay and 6 lows for armor tanking mods. Don't see much wrong with that setup at all. Whats wrong with that pvp setup? -----
fras	Posted - 2004.05.24 14:27:00 - [25] call me a scheptic but I wouldn't say 7 cruiser guns with no damage or rof bonuses with only 1 damage mod would hit nearly hard enough.
Finderne	Posted - 2004.05.24 14:29:00 - [26] Originally by: SKiNNiEH My reasoning is that with the ROF bonus will also come cap problems, this is not the case for the damage bonus. When you train up the BS levels, it becomes harder and harder to run the same stuff. For projectile-ships i can understand the ROF bonus completely, but for lasers i'd rather have the damage bonus and preserve my (precious) cap. Doh - that's very true . I've been flying Tempests too long, I've forgotten the joy of opening up 7 turrets for a few salvos then wondering who drained my cap. Yeah, converting the ROF bonus to an equivalent +dmg bonus should save armageddon users some precious cap.
dalman	Posted - 2004.05.24 17:02:00 - [27] Originally by: Finderne Originally by: SKiNNiEH My reasoning is that with the ROF bonus will also come cap problems, this is not the case for the damage bonus. When you train up the BS levels, it becomes harder and harder to run the same stuff. For projectile-ships i can understand the ROF bonus completely, but for lasers i'd rather have the damage bonus and preserve my (precious) cap. Doh - that's very true . I've been flying Tempests too long, I've forgotten the joy of opening up 7 turrets for a few salvos then wondering who drained my cap. Yeah, converting the ROF bonus to an equivalent +dmg bonus should save armageddon users some precious cap. Seriously... With a damage bonus, the armageddon would be better overall, and also better than the apoc in most situations. A tier 1 ship is not supposed to be that! It's supposed to have a niche where it is better than the tier 2 ship. And for the arma, that special thing is it's ability to punch out huge damage in a short time. Get an apoc instead of you want the best overall ship. The arma is for special tactics and situations. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2004.05.24 20:52:00 - [28] Originally by: fras call me a scheptic but I wouldn't say 7 cruiser guns with no damage or rof bonuses with only 1 damage mod would hit nearly hard enough. By no means are 720mm considered mere cruiser guns. It can out damage and has better rof than 1200mm on a Typhoon. Named 720mm are even better. 720mm is a mini-battleship gun. Apocs have been known to use 8 of them and tank. Its just a very posh thing to use your ship bonus but when your bonus is kinda lame atm... using 720mm is your best bet to a flexible setup.... and I have hit in the 3-400's with 720mm on non-bonused ships. -----
Nepereta	Posted - 2004.05.24 22:27:00 - [29] Its the second best miner in the game 7 miner 2s at about 60m as opposed to 8 miner 2 at over 100m or so. Simple economics make it the logical upgrade for a hardcore miner from a thorax. That is the armaggedons strength, It also has enough drone space for some harvesters and a few ogres/wasps. It has some capability as a fleet ship being a laser / sheild transfer platform. But solo bs PvP you are probably best off hightailing. The trouble is it looks so good you end up with delusions of grandeur.
Shauna	Posted - 2004.05.24 22:54:00 - [30] Well, it's relatively inexpensive... the Apoc is pretty expensive by comparison.

Gaius Kador	Posted - 2004.05.25 02:25:00 - [31] Gankageddon! :)) ----------------------------------------------
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2004.05.25 02:25:00 - [32] Gankageddon! :)) ----------------------------------------------
Ms ArchIQII	Posted - 2004.05.25 07:21:00 - [33] I use my geddon for pvp, and have been very successful. I use 7 dual heavy beams, 1 heavy nosferatu. xlarge clarity sb, em, thermal sh, 8 power relays, 10 ogres due to the 8 power relays..it can tank out the fight..and in the end win....cos in pvp..you can never have too much cap :)
Ms ArchIQII	Posted - 2004.05.25 07:21:00 - [34] I use my geddon for pvp, and have been very successful. I use 7 dual heavy beams, 1 heavy nosferatu. xlarge clarity sb, em, thermal sh, 8 power relays, 10 ogres due to the 8 power relays..it can tank out the fight..and in the end win....cos in pvp..you can never have too much cap :)
Synapse	Posted - 2004.05.25 10:30:00 - [35] ntohing wrong with the geedon. good all rounder. the best armour tank in the game, can take on 2 bships easily if set up correctly, and it doesnt even need to do much dammage, just be able to hold down one of the bships and eventually it will win. - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - In a future where freedom is outlawed, outlaws will become heros
Synapse Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2004.05.25 10:30:00 - [36] ntohing wrong with the geedon. good all rounder. the best armour tank in the game, can take on 2 bships easily if set up correctly, and it doesnt even need to do much dammage, just be able to hold down one of the bships and eventually it will win. - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - In a future where freedom is outlawed, outlaws will become heros
Larno	Posted - 2004.05.25 12:12:00 - [37] Originally by: Synapse ...can take on 2 bships easily if set up correctly... ... and if those 2 bs's are set up correctly? :P By definition 2 ships with the exact same setup and skills will either kill at the same time (or very nearly) or not kill each other at all.
Larno Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2004.05.25 12:12:00 - [38] Originally by: Synapse ...can take on 2 bships easily if set up correctly... ... and if those 2 bs's are set up correctly? :P By definition 2 ships with the exact same setup and skills will either kill at the same time (or very nearly) or not kill each other at all. ---------- "Whining gets you stuff, that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
moctezuma11111	Posted - 2006.11.17 17:46:00 - [39] the armageddon is a good ship because it is very cheap for what you get. the armageddon is more for short term because it is around 30 to 40 mill cheaper than a apoc. however on a longer term a apoc is slightly better
Calisto Cody Minmatar The Black Swan Society	Posted - 2006.11.17 17:50:00 - [40] thou shalt not necro threads better yet how did you even find it? Grimkill > He said . . .. I don't know why you wear a bra; you've got nothing to put in it. <br>She said .. . You wear pants don't you?

Kharakan Amarr GREY COUNCIL Breidablik	Posted - 2006.11.17 17:51:00 - [41] Originally by: moctezuma11111 the armageddon is a good ship because it is very cheap for what you get. the armageddon is more for short term because it is around 30 to 40 mill cheaper than a apoc. however on a longer term a apoc is slightly better What is it with you and necros? =/ Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
Alowishus Shadow Company Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.11.17 17:53:00 - [42] I remember reading this thread when it was new. The moderators here are excellent at policing signatures.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.17 18:18:00 - [43] Originally by: Ms ArchIQII I use my geddon for pvp, and have been very successful. I use 7 dual heavy beams, 1 heavy nosferatu. xlarge clarity sb, em, thermal sh, 8 power relays, 10 ogres due to the 8 power relays..it can tank out the fight..and in the end win....cos in pvp..you can never have too much cap :) lol oh how the times change. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Brian Detaah Destructive Influence	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:30:00 - [44] I remember posting on it when it was new :) ------------------------------------------------ `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.' `The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.' `The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's all.'
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:34:00 - [45] Originally by: moctezuma11111 the armageddon is a good ship because it is very cheap for what you get. the armageddon is more for short term because it is around 30 to 40 mill cheaper than a apoc. however on a longer term a apoc is slightly better Die Foul Necromancer ! /me Stakes Moctezuma !


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