EVE Search - FW (CLOAKING ISSUE) The Height of Civility

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

FW (CLOAKING ISSUE) The Height of Civility

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Bleeshtar	Posted - 2008.07.15 15:23:00 - [31] Wheres the civility part come in?
randomindyalt Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.15 15:25:00 - [32] Originally by: Mattduk As far as I understand it, FW is basically the same as a concord sanctioned war, just on a much larger scale. Can anyone confirm or refute this? Cheers Matt I'm not in FW, and I won't profess to know much about it, but the moment you signed up for your militia you effectively got branded an outlaw by the opposing faction navy....I think. Faction NPC navies will decloak all outlaws, in or out of FW.
Karentaki Gallente Maximum Yarrage	Posted - 2008.07.15 15:39:00 - [33] I agree with the op here. Cloaking should be allowed in or out of FW, with exactly the same rules as normal. It makes no sense to remove 20+ ships from their intended roles just to make some whiney anti-afk-cloakers happy. Remember - afk-cloakers can't hurt you, and if they're at the keyboard then they deserve to be able to kill you with superior tactics. However, now you are just reading my signature... Or are you... ========= Sporks FTW
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2008.07.15 15:40:00 - [34] yes I understand that they do that. But why? What's the point. Even from a balancing point of view, what's the purpose of being decloaked by a faction because you are -5.0 or less to them and in their space? You really can't do anything until you decloak anyway, and then they'll come and shoot you. I am not -5.0 to the Amarr Empire (yet), but apparantly there is technology, all of a sudden, that is being employed by all empires to prevent anyone decloaking in 0.5 or above. Why not use it everywhere? Why don't the Amarr use it in low sec Amarr sovereign space also? What's stopping them? The whole mechanic doesn't make sense to me, and to be honest I haven't heard a good argument for why it exists in the first place, nor why it should be incorporated into factional warfare either. No arguments either RP oriented or game balancing. Cheers Matt Jump Bridges? Shit idea.
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2008.07.15 15:45:00 - [35] Originally by: Bleeshtar Wheres the civility part come in? That was sarcasm. Apologies for the confusion. I'll change the thread name now. I was basically fuming when I heard that cloaks couldn't be used in enemy factions' high sec areas and I started a different thread that was, shall we say, a little more colorful than this one. Suffice to say, it was locked for being a rant and no remaining civil. So I started this one. You might notice that the OP is a little gushy. Matt Jump Bridges? Shit idea.
randomindyalt Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.15 15:55:00 - [36] Edited by: randomindyalt on 15/07/2008 15:59:41 Originally by: Mattduk yes I understand that they do that. But why? What's the point. Even from a balancing point of view, what's the purpose of being decloaked by a faction because you are -5.0 or less to them and in their space? You really can't do anything until you decloak anyway, and then they'll come and shoot you. I am not -5.0 to the Amarr Empire (yet), but apparantly there is technology, all of a sudden, that is being employed by all empires to prevent anyone decloaking in 0.5 or above. Why not use it everywhere? Why don't the Amarr use it in low sec Amarr sovereign space also? What's stopping them? The whole mechanic doesn't make sense to me, and to be honest I haven't heard a good argument for why it exists in the first place, nor why it should be incorporated into factional warfare either. No arguments either RP oriented or game balancing. Cheers Matt You're not -5.0 to Amarr, but you are at war with them, so it makes sense you're KOS to their Navy? The Navy has always had the power from 0.5 and up to decloak, if you jumped into them with aggro or bad standings in the past you were attacked. So from my point of view (got an outlaw char) nothing has changed. edit - you can't use your recon in there anyway, the only use for it cloaked is spying, the whole thing about spying is for your enemy not to know you're doing it to them. Thats something a throw-away alt could do much better right?
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2008.07.15 16:40:00 - [37] Maybe you misunderstood my point. 1) what is the purpose of the enemy factiond decloaking someone who is -5.0 to said faction? 2) Is this a matter of game balancing? Or is it a role playing angle? 3) Given the answer to point 2, what is the logic behind the decision to include this game mechanic not just to factional warfare, but to EVE at all. Cheers Matt Jump Bridges? Shit idea.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.15 17:34:00 - [38] Originally by: Mattduk Maybe you misunderstood my point. 1) what is the purpose of the enemy factiond decloaking someone who is -5.0 to said faction? 2) Is this a matter of game balancing? Or is it a role playing angle? 3) Given the answer to point 2, what is the logic behind the decision to include this game mechanic not just to factional warfare, but to EVE at all. Cheers Matt From RP point of view it require planet based stations and hidden deep space sensor arrays, something that even the more powerful alliances are still incapable of deploying in 0.0 and so costly that the empires deploy them only in key system (0.5 security or more). As a game balance issue it is there to block suicide gankers from cloaking. Probably it is a left over from when it was possible to survive Concord.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.07.15 18:43:00 - [39] They've probably taken it out because cloaked greifers ruin other's game play experience and since FW is aimed at newer players they've likely implemented this change in order to alienate as few new players as possible. That said, any tactic that is available should not be artificialy limited in this sort of fashion, ruins the whole sandbox appeal. P.S. Hi Matt -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2008.07.16 08:06:00 - [40] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Mattduk Maybe you misunderstood my point. 1) what is the purpose of the enemy factiond decloaking someone who is -5.0 to said faction? 2) Is this a matter of game balancing? Or is it a role playing angle? 3) Given the answer to point 2, what is the logic behind the decision to include this game mechanic not just to factional warfare, but to EVE at all. Cheers Matt From RP point of view it require planet based stations and hidden deep space sensor arrays, something that even the more powerful alliances are still incapable of deploying in 0.0 and so costly that the empires deploy them only in key system (0.5 security or more). As a game balance issue it is there to block suicide gankers from cloaking. Probably it is a left over from when it was possible to survive Concord. K, I like the RP point of view and appreciate a logical answer for the game balance aspect. However, surely there is a way to tell the difference between legal aggression and illegal aggression? And your answer also doesn't explain the reasoning behind factional standing preventing someone from cloaking. Your answer addresses criminal flagging, which I appreciate, but not factional standings of -5.0 or less. Regards Matt Jump Bridges? Shit idea.
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2008.07.16 08:10:00 - [41] Originally by: Haradgrim They've probably taken it out because cloaked greifers ruin other's game play experience and since FW is aimed at newer players they've likely implemented this change in order to alienate as few new players as possible. That said, any tactic that is available should not be artificialy limited in this sort of fashion, ruins the whole sandbox appeal. P.S. Hi Matt Hey mate I get the high sec griefing angle, makes perfect sense to me. But factional warfare is not 'high sec ganking'. It is a legal war between parties enlisted. Again, still not seing why my factional standing towards the Amarr empire should affect my ability to cloak in a 0.5+ Amarr sovereign system. It makes no sense. Cheers Matt Jump Bridges? Shit idea.
MacGrowler III Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.07.16 11:33:00 - [42] The inability to cloak (And tbh I didn't know you couldn't) is probably down to game mechanics to stop people being able to evade Concord retaliation for criminal offenses. Stopping them comitting a crime then warping to a safespot and cloaking. The Game mechanics and AI's for the Navies and Concord are probably very similar, if not the same and this "Function" has been carried over. I would suggest that you post in the "Ideas" area. I wouldn't be too surprised if CCP just said NO tho. They will have to work out how much work is involved in changing this aspect, What the impact maybe to Concord and how that could be exploited, and also what else they could be doing for the game instead of this. I agree with you that it's a shame to take the "Stealth" out of camping enemy hi-sec systems, but maybe they just don't want you to do this.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.07.16 12:22:00 - [43] Originally by: Haradgrim greifers - DesuSigs
Crae Matreki Sten Industries	Posted - 2008.07.16 13:58:00 - [44] It's almost certainly an attempt to stop people cloaking a fleet of battleships at a gate and nuking unsuspecting FWers, or just hanging around in a system for too long. Cloaks never stopped CONCORD, and I think a better way of fixing this would be to allow the faction patrols to be able to see cloaked ships.
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.16 14:36:00 - [45] Edited by: Bish Ounen on 16/07/2008 14:42:09 Originally by: Mattduk Enough WOW horse** please guys. Remain on topic. This is a discussion with regards to the unfavourable (IMHO) mechanic that prevents individuals in a legal war from utilizing cloaks on 20 ships designed to benefit from a cloak, and on all the additional ships beyond that. Thank you. Matt 16 ships. As has been stated, the COMBAT recons are no more specifically intended to cloak than are T1 battleships. It's the FORCE recons that have the cloaking bonus like cov-ops and black-ops. FORCE RECON: Name: Arazu Hull: Celestis Role: Force Recon Ship Force recon ships are the cruiser-class equivalent of covert ops frigates. While not as resilient as combat recon ships, they are nonetheless able to do their job as reconaissance vessels very effectively, due in no small part to their ability to interface with covert ops cloaking devices and set up cynosural fields for incoming capital ships. Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness per level Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to warp disruptor range and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level Role Bonus: 200-unit reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration. COMBAT RECON: Name: Lachesis Hull: Celestis Role: Combat Recon Ship Built to represent the last word in electronic warfare, combat recon ships have onboard facilities designed to maximize the effectiveness of electronic countermeasure modules of all kinds. Filling a role next to their class counterpart, the heavy assault ship, combat recon ships are the state of the art when it comes to anti-support support. They are also devastating adversaries in smaller skirmishes, possessing strong defensive capabilities in addition to their electronic superiority. Developer: Roden Shipyards Unlike most Gallente ship manufacturers, Roden Shipyards tend to favor missiles over drones and their ships generally possess stronger armor. Their electronics capacity, however, tends to be weaker than that of their competitors'. Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness per level Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to warp disruptor range and 5% bonus to Heavy Missile Launcher and Assault Missile Launcher rate of fire per level** Notice the bolded parts. There's the difference between COMBAT recons and FORCE recons. FORCE have the cloaking CPU bonus and the ability to warp while cloaked. COMBAT recons have NO cloak CPU bonus and cannot warp cloaked. Now stop getting it wrong! Otherwise I find your original argument interesting, but I am still developing my opinion on it. Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
randomindyalt Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.16 14:58:00 - [46] Edited by: randomindyalt on 16/07/2008 14:59:21 Originally by: Bish Ounen Notice the bolded parts. There's the difference between COMBAT recons and FORCE recons. FORCE have the cloaking CPU bonus and the ability to warp while cloaked. COMBAT recons have NO cloak CPU bonus and cannot warp cloaked. Now stop getting it wrong! Otherwise I find your original argument interesting, but I am still developing my opinion on it. Nice long post there, please re-read the thread where we discussed and already resloved the fact that COMBAT recons (the Rook was the exapmle used) do have a cloaking bonus. edit - bad grammar innit.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.07.16 15:26:00 - [47] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Haradgrim greifers I feel the need to point out that was actually a self-depreciating shot at my alliance (you bunch of cloaked griefers!), in actuality there are no griefers in EVE, just winners and their victims. -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Aeo IV Amarr Xomic OmniCorporation	Posted - 2008.07.16 15:36:00 - [48] Combat recon ships don't get a cloaking bonus because they don't need one, they ready have the the CPU and PWG to fit a bunch oif modules, as well as a cloaking device, for example.
Euriti Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.07.16 15:37:00 - [49] Originally by: Napro Originally by: Squably Originally by: Napro Edited by: Napro on 15/07/2008 14:45:03 Just quit like I'm doing. There'll be plenty of suckers...err loyal players... to keep the game afloat until they get the bugs out of FW in about 6months Go back to WOW tyvm Thanks, I'll give it a try. Enjoy your 90 bucks spent on beta software. I'll be back around January WoW has more bugs.
Skjorta	Posted - 2008.07.16 15:44:00 - [50] Topic = You can't cloak in enemy FW territory and this might be a problem not what constitutes a recon ship or how awesome/buggy WOW is. continue.
DevilDogUSMC Caldari Clon3d N Pwn3d	Posted - 2008.07.16 17:08:00 - [51] YAY U Ded Ett Award ! What the heck. just take a shuttle if you want to recon or a cepter or something that you can use that's the fun you find ways around these issues! I don't get it why some times I see posts where people are just so boggled that the game doesn't work around there needs at the time. Because if that happend you would have no need for the game. Sounds like you are looking for some CCP Brownie points.. try finding out why they did things the way they did. maybe there is a reason. besides I dont think your Covert Ops " Combat Recon " will end up being the liberator of the enemy held system. takes a team. kill the thread ! oh god end it !
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.07.16 17:13:00 - [52] why don't we just turn off warp scramblers, webbers, Ewar, damps, and neuts while we're at it. It will make to new player experience easier, in fact, why not just remove guns too and we can sumo wrestle for control of contested systems! -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.16 17:26:00 - [53] 8/10. You would have gotten 10/10, but you actually seem to think combat recons were designed to use cloaks. They're combat ships dude. -Xaen - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.16 17:32:00 - [54] Originally by: randomindyalt Edited by: randomindyalt on 16/07/2008 14:59:21 Nice long post there, please re-read the thread where we discussed and already resloved the fact that COMBAT recons (the Rook was the exapmle used) do have a cloaking bonus. edit - bad grammar innit. Nice incorrect facts there. Here are the actual facts from the CCP Item Database: Name: Rook Hull: Blackbird Role: Combat Recon Ship Built to represent the last word in electronic warfare, combat recon ships have onboard facilities designed to maximize the effectiveness of electronic countermeasure modules of all kinds. Filling a role next to their class counterpart, the heavy assault ship, combat recon ships are the state of the art when it comes to anti-support support. They are also devastating adversaries in smaller skirmishes, possessing strong defensive capabilities in addition to their electronic superiority. Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in ECM Target Jammer capacitor use and 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range per level Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level and 5% bonus to heavy and light missile kinetic damage. There's the Rook. And yet, I see NO CLOAKING BONUS on that ship. I wonder why? Oh, now I remember! BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ONE ON COMBAT RECON SHIPS, ONLY FORCE RECONS! Just because you SAY there is a bonus doesn't mean there IS one. CCP's database disagrees with your opinion. I think I'll trust the company that made the game rather than some random twit on an Internet message board. Just to drive the point home, here are the bonus setups for the other two COMBAT recon ships: Curse: Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level. Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and 20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level Huginn: Minmatar Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire and 7.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 60% bonus to stasis webifier range and 5% bonus to Heavy Missile Launcher, heavy assault missile launcher and Assault Missile Launcher rate of fire per level I think I have made my point. And now back to the actual topic at hand: Whether Factional Warfare should allow the essential (if not literal) disabling of Sixteen ships' special bonuses. I personally think that as long as the only reason you have super-low standings to a faction is due to Factional Warfare, then you should be allowed to use the cloak. If, however, your low standings are due to criminal action, then your cloak should be disabled. Basically, only Concord should be able to de-cloak anyone. Factional Navies just shouldn't have that skill available. Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
evriss Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.07.16 19:31:00 - [55] Originally by: Napro That's 2 recommendations for WoW. I'm signing up for a trial now. I hear it's past the beta stage, too, so it already has FW beat good... enjoy!
Straight Chillen Gallente Solar Wind Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.07.16 19:36:00 - [56] the reason u cannot cloak in enemy highsec when signed up for FW, as i understand it, is that it has to do with the way the Faction Navy spawns to defend. Wouldnt make much sense if u jump into enemy highsec with ur cov ops, then warped cloaked to a planet/moon/ss only to have the faction navy spawn ontop of u would it?
randomindyalt Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.17 10:26:00 - [57] Edited by: randomindyalt on 17/07/2008 10:30:54 Originally by: Bish Ounen copy paste of previous post, to try and prove a point Linky to Rook details I'll make this as easy as possible. Click link, check in "Miscellaneous" between "meta level" and "calibration" and please explain what that is, right there staring you in the face, in less than 20 words. Edit - Just because a ship doesn't receive a bouns to use This it doesn't mean that it is not designed to be used with the other cloaking devices available...please see This for example. If you fit one on either ship it's up to you of course.
Moggy TheCat Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.18 12:47:00 - [58] Originally by: randomindyalt Edited by: randomindyalt on 17/07/2008 10:36:29 Edited by: randomindyalt on 17/07/2008 10:30:54 Originally by: Bish Ounen copy paste of previous post, to try and prove a point Linky to Rook details I'll make this as easy as possible. Click link, check in "Miscellaneous" between "meta level" and "calibration" and please explain what that is, right there staring you in the face, in less than 20 words. Edit - Just because a ship doesn't receive a bouns to use This it doesn't mean that it is not designed to be used with the other cloaking devices available...please see This for example. If you fit one on either ship it's up to you of course. Second edit - If you don't belive me, why don't you test it for yourself? sry but the argue was that u cant use this on the rook because the ship get no bonus to use it ( see cpu usage of the mod ) but the topic was you cant use any cloak within hostile space in FW... and there is the point, if u are not criminal flagged lets say you are with a sec stat of +3.6 MEANS ->> u can fly around everywhere cloaked or not , right ? and if u declare war on someone or get wardec'd MEANS ->> u can fly around everywhere cloaked or not, right ? but if u sign up with FW any cloaking is impossible in hostile space.... (doesn't make sense imo) but it would be nice if some ccp guyys could give a statement on that
randomindyalt Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.18 14:40:00 - [59] Edited by: randomindyalt on 18/07/2008 14:40:49 Originally by: Moggy TheCat sry but the argue was that u cant use this on the rook because the ship get no bonus to use it ( see cpu usage of the mod ) but the topic was you cant use any cloak within hostile space in FW... and there is the point, if u are not criminal flagged lets say you are with a sec stat of +3.6 MEANS ->> u can fly around everywhere cloaked or not , right ? and if u declare war on someone or get wardec'd MEANS ->> u can fly around everywhere cloaked or not, right ? but if u sign up with FW any cloaking is impossible in hostile space.... (doesn't make sense imo) but it would be nice if some ccp guyys could give a statement on that The argument was whether or not combat recons receive a bonus to cloaking....do you agree they do? If so I'll be a happy bunny and STFU about it. As far as the Faction Navy uncloaking thingy is concerned: They have the ability to un-cloak ships that are flagged to them, as do Concord. I'm not sure if I agree this should happen to people who've signed up to FW, but there would be an imbalance for those that do have low standings (and are not involved in FW),if the faction navy only used this ability against that certain group of players. So to put it simply, what it seems some FW players are looking for is: You're in a militia and jump into a 0.5: Cloak; and you're safe from the faction navy aggressing. Your -10 and jump into a 0.5: Cloak; you are uncloaked and aggressed by the faction navy coz they only use their supa-doopa uncloaking ray on you.

Pages: 1 [2] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.