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The Material Legends are Made Of

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Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.07.21 14:13:00 - [31] Indeed Mr Stitcher. As simple as that. Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Kade Jeekin Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.07.21 15:03:00 - [32] Originally by: Kade Jeekin You spout a few factual inaccuracies but that's never stood in the way of a demagogue of course... It gives me a fuzzy warm feeling knowing that even we mortalish enemies can agree that you are full of shit. --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
Sallera Zephyr Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.07.21 15:47:00 - [33] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace If the DED did indeed keep over three hundred thousand civilians on board a military base they knew was about to be attacked then .... well really, only an idiot would need me to continue. Has anyone questioned the fact the the DED are idiots since we learned they based their entire rapid-response communications system on a single backup-less array? Really, their arrogance is so supreme I wouldn't doubt that they didn't believe the station could possibly fall, so they presumably would have kept the station's residents there until the attack force's full strength became apparent.
Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.07.22 16:24:00 - [34] Indeed, that is pretty true. There is a non-written law that says "never put all your eggs in the same basket". Seems like CONCORD did do it, so proud of themselves as to think it would be impossible for anyone to break that basket. In fact, as you said, I've been checking a couple formularies and contacts of mine, and it seems like no evacuation order was sent to CONCORD personnel on Yulai before the station was already heavily damaged. Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Natalcya Katla Naqam	Posted - 2008.07.22 17:40:00 - [35] Originally by: Sepherim We have made more points than you several days, have a better point per pilot record, and have scored numerous kills (though you have scored more in this field, blob technique afterall). Scores. Points. Records. That is what this so-called "war" is. A bloodsport, an arena game, where frenzied capsuleer gladiators mow down each other and any hapless Astropolitan bystanders happening to get caught in the crossfire, to the cheer of trillions of increasingly racist spectators. Once again, the people on the ground have called for "war", and once again, they've figured out a way to make the people in space do all the killing and dying. I remember the involuntary feeling of revulsion this inspired in me before my recent multiglands surgical upgrade, and when I choose to feel sad, it remains one of my preferred emotional foci. On the subject of the attack on Yulai, it seems to have passed a lot of people by that it was the CONCORD Assembly Headquarters which was assaulted and destroyed. It is not a DED station. It's not even the administrational headquarters of CONCORD, as that would be the Inner Circle Tribunal station in Yulai. Its main purpose lay in serving as a forum for debate between various interstellar or interplanetary diplomatic entities. I don't have anything approaching a complete list of people employed at the station or visiting it, but while there were without a doubt a lot of security forces stationed there, the vast majority of CONCORD personnel on-station have typically been bureaucrats, technicians, diplomatic staff and service personnel. That does not count all the Assembly representatives and their own respective staffs, who cannot be considered CONCORD personnel. Personally, I would call it a civilian installation. If the attackers had wanted a military target, there are two DED stations in Yulai, one of them being the headquarters of the entire DED. These stations were not attacked. The Inner Circle Tribunal is in Yulai, and might be considered CONCORD's political capital. That station was not attacked. The SCC also have their headquarters in Yulai. If the attackers had chosen to strike there, they could conceivably have crippled CONCORD economically. But they didn't. So why choose the Assembly headquarters, of all places? I believe the reason is simple and cynical. For all the Byzantine intrigues and cold war battles fought in its halls by the dirt-crawling snakes chosen by the interplanetary regimes to represent them, the Assembly Headquarters stood as a symbol of a century of mutual cooperation, prosperity and peace between the people of the cluster, against the odds. The destruction of such a symbol is symbolic in itself.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.23 10:32:00 - [36] When someone is warned that if they continue to protect the enemy they will face live fire. Then refuse to stand down. That is not murder, they are casualties of war. They were given much longer than twenty four hours notice of the assault. Far more than Concord gives those on the sharp end of one of their 'sanctioned' wars. By your rationale everyone who has ever been in a war is a murderer. Or is it only murder when a Matari does it? A racist and bigoted opinion to say the least. If there had been no terms, if there had been no warning then your cries of murder might have held some weight. They do not. Before you cry out about the Yulai accord, remember it was the Elders and a fleet of free Matari that did this. Not Yulai signatories and not bound to Concord law. Welcome to the wider galaxy where some injustices are still made right by force of arms. Join Kinda'Shujaa
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.23 11:16:00 - [37] From petty arguing of death counts, to justifying the destruction of an entire orbital station belonging to a neutral entity. Most impressive, Thrace. You must love playing at politics. Dog. ----------------------------------------------
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.07.23 11:40:00 - [38] Originally by: Natalcya Katla So why choose the Assembly headquarters, of all places? I believe the reason is simple and cynical. For all the Byzantine intrigues and cold war battles fought in its halls by the dirt-crawling snakes chosen by the interplanetary regimes to represent them, the Assembly Headquarters stood as a symbol of a century of mutual cooperation, prosperity and peace between the people of the cluster, against the odds. The destruction of such a symbol is symbolic in itself. It was also the communications hub for the entire CONCORD administrative system - NEOCOM, SCC Marketplace and contracting system, and most importantly the field communications system used by the DED to co-ordinate their efforts. Every last signal in the galaxy that was in any way related to CONCORD had to go through that station. I agree the strike was symbolic, but it was also strategic. They knocked an ally of the Amarr (note, I mean ally in the sense that the DED would have rushed to the defense of Amarr space in accordance with their charter, not out of tacit endorsement of Amarr policies) before the fight even began. Had they not done that, the other two fleets would probably have been doomed to failure and annihilation. - Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Redbad Minmatar TSL Wolfpack	Posted - 2008.07.23 11:47:00 - [39] Originally by: Gaius Kador From petty arguing of death counts, to justifying the destruction of an entire orbital station belonging to a neutral entity. Most impressive, Thrace. You must love playing at politics. Dog. Take it as you want Lord Gaius Kador, the fact still stands that it is now clear that anyone that gets in the way of freeing our people free from Amarrian slavery will feel our wrath, wether they pretend to be neutral or not. Times have changed. It is time to protect and defend your Empire with Amarrian pride and blood instead of having a "neutral" Concord doing it for you. This is war. RB
Dionisius Gallente Vagas Pharmaceuticals	Posted - 2008.07.23 11:55:00 - [40] Edited by: Dionisius on 23/07/2008 11:55:37 Knock Knock Amarr Pilot - Who's There? Mr.1400 Amarr Pilot - 14 who? 1400mm of destruction coming straight at you. Good morning Amarr this is your wake up call, courtesy of " Minmatar Liberation Forces, aka Mr.1400 Howie. " _____________________________________ I am the destroyer of worlds and the also the cokie thief.

Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.23 12:17:00 - [41] Concord as street vendors, love it. Pointless, irrelevent and so far off subject I didn't bother reading any more of the tripe. Concord take up arms to defend Amarrian slave camps, not neutral. That put them in the path of the Elders. They were given fair warning. They refused to stand aside. Their military comms hub was disabled, not destroyed, long enough for tens of millions of our people, including the surviving Starkmanir tribe, to be brought to freedom. Freedom denied to them by the Amarr Empire and by their protectors, Concord and the DED. The facts can't be set any straighter than that. You can argue about unpublished numbers, you can throw emotive terms around, beat your chests, wail at the sky and call people dogs all you like. Facts are there for all to see. Every day you insist on commiting holocaust against our race Amarrian Imperialists will continue to die. The Amarr Empire must seek peace. Free our people, lay down arms, leave the territories that have been liberated and let us talk of an end to war. Join Kinda'Shujaa
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.07.23 12:45:00 - [42] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Concord as street vendors, love it. Pointless, irrelevent and so far off subject I didn't bother reading any more of the tripe. Somehow, I figured you wouldn't... You're far too simple a man to be swayed by a mere analogy. - Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.23 13:40:00 - [43] Only a weak argument needs to twist perception with such ridiculous analogy. Concord are an enforcement agency that are empowered by the signatories of the Yulai accord. They respond with force to defend the Amarr slave camps. They would have protected the Amarr who no doubt were already moving to exterminate the last of the Starkmanir tribe. They are very far indeed from selling hotdogs harmlessly on street corners. Let's just call it what it is rather than trying to justify the holocaust of the Minmatar people with pretty stories about harmless street sellers. The DED was disabled as peacefully as they would allow, having been given fair warning. Their station was not destroyed and no other DED facilities were targetted. Tens of millions are now free, the Starkmanir have been saved. Learn the lesson of that day. Our people will be freed. Your resistance to that is folly. Lay down arms, free our people. End their suffering and yours. If you want peace you can have it, just not while you hold my kin in death camps. You call me simple but you can't get your head around that? Join Kinda'Shujaa
Redbad Minmatar TSL Wolfpack	Posted - 2008.07.23 13:41:00 - [44] Originally by: Stitcher Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Concord as street vendors, love it. Pointless, irrelevent and so far off subject I didn't bother reading any more of the tripe. Somehow, I figured you wouldn't... You're far too simple a man to be swayed by a mere analogy. For analogy without making any accusations or links to recent events: Would following a criminal that happens to become a powerfull CEO and leader of a State into a great war make the one that follows also a criminal ... or does that just make him simple? RB
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.07.23 14:02:00 - [45] Edited by: Stitcher on 23/07/2008 14:02:24 Originally by: Redbad Would following a criminal that happens to become a powerfull CEO and leader of a State into a great war make the one that follows also a criminal ... or does that just make him simple? Both of those options depend on the criminal being followed willingly. Those who follow but unwillingly fall into a third category - victims of circumstance. Incidentally, that wasn't analogy - that was a hypothetical question. - Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.07.24 15:10:00 - [46] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Concord take up arms to defend Amarrian slave camps, not neutral. That put them in the path of the Elders. They were given fair warning. They refused to stand aside. Their military comms hub was disabled, not destroyed, long enough for tens of millions of our people, including the surviving Starkmanir tribe, to be brought to freedom. Freedom denied to them by the Amarr Empire and by their protectors, Concord and the DED. You didn't complain during all this time, while CONCORD kept your Republic safe from the invasion of our fleets, and didn't complain when Lady Sarum and the Navy stopped at our borders. But you did take refuge inside the Minmatarr Republic, so it is obvious that the Elders are in no way neutral and different from the Republic. And Mr Shakor now leads you, after claiming for years for this war. And I'm sure the ressources to build the Elder fleet came out of somewhere... such a large fleet isn't built over the day, and with no ressources, as I'm sure you know. Quote: The facts can't be set any straighter than that. You can argue about unpublished numbers, you can throw emotive terms around, beat your chests, wail at the sky and call people dogs all you like. Facts are there for all to see. No, don't claim both things to be independant, as they aren't. We respected Yulai. You didn't. We remained in our planets. You slaughtered neutrals as well as my people. You can twist it as much as you like, but that is the simple truth. Quote: Every day you insist on commiting holocaust against our race Amarrian Imperialists will continue to die. The Amarr Empire must seek peace. Free our people, lay down arms, leave the territories that have been liberated and let us talk of an end to war. That is not seeking peace, Mr Thrace, it is accepting some defeat conditions to a war. And we are far from defeated. We will not submit to terrorists, we will not give in to slaughter and fear, we will not bow to murderes. You want peace? It is simple, return to the Minmatarr Republic and leave the Empire alone. You started it, you can stop it. Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Tishlin Veredici Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2008.07.25 07:41:00 - [47] The way I see it, generally they're made of tritanium, with a liberal smattering of pyerite, mexallon, isogen, megacyte and zydrine. Oh, and a bit of morphite for those "Exotic" bits.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.25 12:11:00 - [48] "But you did take refuge inside the Minmatarr Republic" No I didn't, many of us did not. Your argument folds like a house of cards. I am not of the Republic, the Elders are not the Republic. The Republic did not start this counter offensive, the Elders did. Educate yourself, then maybe try again. Join Kinda'Shujaa
Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.07.25 14:23:00 - [49] I meant the Elder Fleet, Mr Thrace. "You" "the attackers". And don't fool yourself, the Elder Fleet ran hurriedly to the Minmatarr Republic border to escape. And were saved by CONCORD again from Lady Sarum to go on after them. So you owe CONCORD twice your existance as a race, and you pay your debt in their blood. How nice. Is that more educated and to your liking? Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.26 03:10:00 - [50] You mean the Elder Fleet travelled unmolested through Republic space to return to the Wildlands. Considering the apparent damage Sarum's ship suffered from her own clearly desperate and unstable weapon system I doubt she was going after anyone. There are tens of millions of slaves who for the last few generations have had Concord protection of the Amarr slave camps to thank for their extended suffering. The DED were given the chance to do the right thing and step aside, the Elders are not Yulai signatories, the Thukker are not Yulai signatories. Concord could have even sanctioned a war, they do it every day. They chose instead to take up arms. But no, foolish Ni-Kunni gelding, we do not owe our existance as a race to Concord. The Minmatar owe our existance to the stars that spawned us, to our ancestors that toiled and fought for generations. We owe our heart to the Elders, our strength to our warriors and our hope to our pilots flying on the wings of freedom. We do have a debt. We owe it to our decendants. We owe it to them that they are born to a universe where they are free. Free from the threat of slavery, free from Amarr tyranny and free of the holocaust you seek to visit upon us. Our mission is not born of religious fervour, it is vital to the survival of our race. The extremes we have to go to are dictated but those who oppose freedom and seek to destroy us. You have the choice, free our people, lay down arms or die trying to exterminate an entire culture just because we are different from you. In the face of a Minmatar force more advanced and tactically adept than you gave our 'lesser race' credit for the Amarr have already started to abandon tradition. To save your race you have chosen a clone to lead you, someone who has snubbed your culture just by being alive today. Why not abandon your traditions of conquest and slavery to save your species. Join Kinda'Shujaa

Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.07.28 02:48:00 - [51] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace You mean the Elder Fleet travelled unmolested through Republic space to return to the Wildlands. Considering the apparent damage Sarum's ship suffered from her own clearly desperate and unstable weapon system I doubt she was going after anyone. Travelling through unmolested. Yes, it is a good way of admiting the guilt of the Republic in this whole affair. You don't let terrorists move unmolested into your space. As for Lady Sarum, records at the gates show she herself was a member of the Navy fleet chasing "your people" out of the Empire, even with a damaged ship. Quote: But no, foolish Ni-Kunni gelding, we do not owe our existance as a race to Concord. The Minmatar owe our existance to the stars that spawned us, to our ancestors that toiled and fought for generations. We owe our heart to the Elders, our strength to our warriors and our hope to our pilots flying on the wings of freedom. Pretty words, nothing more. I would say you deserve your existane, on such metaphysical levels, to God. But that too would be out of the topic. If CONCORD hadn't prevented us from invading you sooner, there would be no Republic, and you all would be enslaved again. Quote: In the face of a Minmatar force more advanced and tactically adept than you gave our 'lesser race' credit for the Amarr have already started to abandon tradition. To save your race you have chosen a clone to lead you, someone who has snubbed your culture just by being alive today. Why not abandon your traditions of conquest and slavery to save your species. One thing is Tradition, another is Faith. Don't ever get them mixed. Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.28 11:40:00 - [52] Originally by: Sepherim If CONCORD hadn't prevented us from invading you sooner, there would be no Republic, and you all would be enslaved again. Given the performance of the Tribal Liberation Force I would say it has been Concord that have been protecting you all these years. Join Kinda'Shujaa
Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:28:00 - [53] Capsuleers are a recent thing, Mr Thrace, you know it as well as I do. Your slavery and liberation goes way back. As for the results of your militia, we will see, we will see. Tides are changing. Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.28 14:50:00 - [54] Originally by: Sepherim Tides are changing. Capsuleers or not, the tides are not changing. We can all see the war reports. Give up now. Join Kinda'Shujaa
Aria Jenneth Caldari Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.07.28 15:45:00 - [55] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Capsuleers or not, the tides are not changing. We can all see the war reports. Give up now. We can indeed. And what we see is that the Amarr are beginning to put up a fight disproportionate to their numbers-- unsurprising, considering how fast they've had to learn. Good for them. It'll be interesting to see what happens if they ever manage to equalize their numbers. Ghost Festival is recruiting!


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