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Vigilant
Gallente
Vigilant's Vigilante's
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Posted - 2008.07.24 13:33:00 -
[91]
Actually, we do NOT need the macro population at all. Problem is they ore / ice from real players and turn it into isk for sale. Which last I checked is illegal.
These macros actually depress mineral prices, forcing people who would cash mine to find other avenues for isk.
So, Mr. Day Trading you have looked at the situation all wrong.
Isk from mining would more valuable if they were actually policed better by CCP, but CCP would loose real money doing so and their precios server population would drop in a big way doing so. Its all about real life money.
Back, to the subject, give us the Orca, just make it cool pls.
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Vigilant
Gallente
Vigilant's Vigilante's
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Posted - 2008.07.24 13:34:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Vigilant on 24/07/2008 13:37:57
Oopsy double post
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Karina Bellac
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Posted - 2008.07.24 16:37:00 -
[93]
One of the biggest problems with mining in 0.0 is the pure annoyance of refining logistics. One 'buff' I'd like to see added is something that makes the logistics for solo-miners a lot easier.
Allowing barges to compress ore, like the Rorqual, would be damn nice, for example. Not going to happen, I know, but one can wish. |
Dragon1589
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Posted - 2008.07.26 02:31:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Dragon1589 on 26/07/2008 02:32:22
I like the idea of more specialized mining craft, but my main problem with mining now is the size of asteroids. I can mine a Mercoxit roid for hours, but a Scordite roid which dwarfs the mercoxit roid only lasts 15-30min, and given the fact that I need a lot more pyerite than morphite, its a real pain in the arse. I would rather see a ore increase in 0.0 for all the low end roids than anything (not having to change asteroids so often). Just me though.
Also the Orca would be just great as a hauler between the itty and a freighter as has been said, that alone would make it worth buying in my books.
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Miranda
Caldari
Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2008.07.27 09:56:00 -
[95]
Im all in favor of bigger mining vessels, but they need to make 4 of them. One for each race. The story line can run that the empires now at war need more minerals to replace damaged/destroyed ships. Add in that there not happy about being out done my a corporation in produceing a mining vessel.
Si now we can get 4 new capital mining vessels, each playing to the races skills, Amarr version has massive armour, caldari has massive sheilds and gallente has drone swarms, Minnie who knows? proberly the fastist of them with bigger cargo hold.
All of them different but half way between a battleship and a capital ship. So possibly 4-5 strips with racial bonuses to the type of ore found in there sector.
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NetBlaise 1
Minmatar
Unstable Reaction Inc.
EVOCATI Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.27 14:56:00 -
[96]
I am getting so mad reading this damn thread.
Folks, we miners need a bigger mining ship. We need a mining ship that will make more isk then someone rattling in 0.0 or even a missioner. Mining is the least desired trade in eve. Mining should be the one trade in eve that produce the most isk per hour. I mean it should double the intake of isk per hour. Miners proved/make every just about every single thing in eve work. Tell me this, should a PVPer make more isk then a Miner? Should a Missioner make more isk then a miner? Mining is the dirtiest job in eve and the last job that 99% of pilots want to do. It doesn't make any damn since what some of you are saying about mining.
Someone said that a player should get another account/alt to give him boosters/protection so his yield can increase. What the h*ll!! One Character should be all it takes to do anything in this game. Why should someone have to pay extra to do something better? Yes that option is their but know one should be pushed to doing that.
Back to having a bigger Mining Ship. Alot of you have said that having a bigger mining ship/more yield would mess up the balance of the Market. Know it won't. It will set the market back to where it should be. If you are a combat pilot you can fly a frigate at first that goes pew pew. Then you upgrade to a Cruiser that goes pew pew pew boom. Then a BC/BS that goes boom boom boom and sometimes a little of peeew peew, lol. Every step of the way it allows you to do more then you were able to do before. Am I right or wrong? A professional miner, one that's been a miner for about 8 or more months should be able to mine the crap out of a belt and move on to the next one. Even if it had to be in 0.4 and below. Miners need a bigger better ship that can do this. I know alot of people are tired of flying every where to go get this or that. The more Ore that is mined the more minerals their will be. Also the more minerals their are the more ships and modules their are.
All I want and most miners want is to be able to mine like a god. To be able to look at someone else and say "I am a miner and I'm proud to be one" :).
A mining ship that should made available to miners:
BS sized hull
6 to 8 High slots for lasers or even some spares ones for protection.
Storage space - Enough space for 5 to 6 cycles
10MN Booster, A good tank
4 to 5 Mining Laser upgrades (some to decrease cycle time or increase yield)
Something like that.
The ship should have boosters that allows a increase in the amount of drones that can be used at the same time. Maybe 5 more.
Well this is a mad miner speaking out. That's pretty much it. I don't know what else to say. CCP, come on already give the miners what we need and we will shut up :) Sorry for all the bad grammar/spelling/etc. I'm just so mad atm.
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Moriancumer
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
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Posted - 2008.07.28 02:06:00 -
[97]
 Originally by: NetBlaise 1
Folks, we miners need a bigger mining ship.
/signed.
The market will adjust. It always does. If the ship is spendy enough, the Macros will NOT use is it, they'll use covetors & hulks.
How many Jump Freighter macro'rs do you see?
-= HROLT Co-CEO =- |
Divad Ginleek
Gallente
Gateway Industries
House of Mercury
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Posted - 2008.07.28 02:48:00 -
[98]
Hulk's yield is fine as it is. the Orca will be a valuable addition to any highsec mining corp's arsenal as long as it can compress ore. if not, a command ship or even BC can do the rest (mining only uses one link anyway).
What i want to see is a massive boost to the shield/armor HP of all mining specific ships, and ive said it before. a mining ship is smacking against asteroids all day and fending off pirates. so why are they built like paper? you have to spend literally millions on rare officer/faction shield mods to make a hulk stand up to even a battlecruiser. the top level mining ship should be able to take 5 minutes worth of salvos from a pro skilled BS before it pops (active tank, of course).
but, we know that if CCP did rebalance mining ships to better fit the RP of heavy industrial use. every suicide ganker and can flipper would be crying about it so loud they would just boost everything else to make it like it is now. so w/e.
The one thing mining does not need is higher yield. sorry, but if you need so much more ISK/ore per hour, just fork over the cash for another account and make another hulk pilot.
::insert witty signature here:: |
Vigilant
Gallente
Vigilant's Vigilante's
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Posted - 2008.07.28 03:55:00 -
[99]
best idea I have seen for new mining ship was a tech 2 BS made especially for mining...Same yield as hulk, but with better "defense". Pricy as Maradurer, but gank survive the typical "high sec." Smartie GankaGeddon.
Would at least at a new flavor of mining ships 
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Aiko Onhurbaccalaught
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Posted - 2008.07.28 04:05:00 -
[100]
Everyone needs to stop crying about a bigger mining ship and demand that they increase material requirements to build modules. As it is the markets of regions remotely near the larger trade hubs are completely and utterly saturated by minerals.
Thats why prices of minerals are falling and as such produced items are following suit (albeit maybe not proportionately). Supply has exceeded demand and is going to stay that way unless CCP finds a way to make that excess disappear; think hard and realize there is no ethical mechanic to do so.
Another quick suggestion is to balance refine amounts of lootable T1 items on the item's Meta level. Say Meta 4 would be 100% the current value; M3 80%; M2 65%; M1 50%: T1 45% as a quick example.
It would give the Mining profession a breath of new life and a chance to be a valid means in which to sustain one's self.
Even further flooding the market with minerals because a mining monster is released is not the answer.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.07.28 09:29:00 -
[101]
I'd rather the Orca to not have any mining yield or defensive bonuses past being able to mount the mining forman link for its normal BC bonus. As long as it can use ore compression and has a great tank with a good sized cargobay I'll be a happy miner.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Carrier Eleven
Gallente
EVE Posting Service
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Posted - 2008.07.28 09:33:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Carniflex
yada yada
. Just get yourself second account to run one to increase your main char yield, or even better gang up with one in some mining corp.
yada yada
at the current mineral prices and GTC prices you are better off selling the GTC you would use to pay for a second miner account. 
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Kemloor
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Posted - 2008.07.28 11:45:00 -
[103]
Personnally i wouldnt mind seeing a BS sized mining ship implemented into play. it would have to have about the same size tank as a hulk but the difference would be the number of high slots, low slots and miners/cargo expanders u could fit on it.
It would prolly have one or two extra high slots for miners and able to carry as much as a fully loaded and rigged ity 5 oncve fitted with its cargo expanders or even mining laser upgrades.
A ship like that would be Awesome for corp mining ops like im accustomed to.
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Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Strike-Force-Alpha
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Posted - 2008.07.28 11:54:00 -
[104]
Introducing a new mining ship that mines more than a Hulk, or even one with the same yield but much tougher is not what this game needs. Higher yields in game will drive down prices, and to all you who say it will stabilize, sure it will, but at a much lower price... The Orca is going to be a great ship for empire mining ops because it will hopefully bring ore compression to the table, and offer rorqual-like bonuses to high sec miners. For you solo-guys, make some friends and then you can take advantage of this new ship too 
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sepharim blade
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Posted - 2008.07.28 13:55:00 -
[105]
would it be a bad thing if everything was cheaper. i mean granted yes mineral prices will go down, but so will the price for new items and ships making it easier for people to buy the things they need.
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Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Strike-Force-Alpha
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:26:00 -
[106]
Yes things would be cheaper, but then the game becomes easy if you will. I think the current prices are appropriate because there should be some effort put into affording things. Deflating the mineral prices through increased supply will cause market prices to lower, and ultimately make it easier to afford ships, afford lose them, and be more careless with isk. I do not think CCP wants this to happen, and I am quite confident the Orca will not have any mining capabilities, nor will they introduce a higher yield mining ship. Also, introducing something on par with the Hulk, but tougher, will only make the Hulk obsolete.
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Typheonic
Gallente
Ri'Fainu
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:29:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Transmaniacon
Introducing a new mining ship that mines more than a Hulk, or even one with the same yield but much tougher is not what this game needs. Higher yields in game will drive down prices, and to all you who say it will stabilize, sure it will, but at a much lower price... The Orca is going to be a great ship for empire mining ops because it will hopefully bring ore compression to the table, and offer rorqual-like bonuses to high sec miners. For you solo-guys, make some friends and then you can take advantage of this new ship too
Indeed more yield is not really needed, but more resilience is desperately needed. Changes to PvP since the introduction of the Hulk has made current ships much more deadly. It has also introduced a large number of new threats. Throughout it all the Hulk, which was already well behind the curve, fell further behind. Now the T2 barges barely have sufficient defences to survive high-sec operations, much less low-sec or 0.0 without expensive very specialized fittings.
There is a strong desire from some vocal groups to have people move into low-sec and 0.0 instead of remaining in high-sec. One barrier to that is a lack of effective tools to work in these areas with an acceptable level of risk.
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Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Strike-Force-Alpha
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:37:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Transmaniacon on 28/07/2008 14:38:40
Originally by: Typheonic
Originally by: Transmaniacon
Introducing a new mining ship that mines more than a Hulk, or even one with the same yield but much tougher is not what this game needs. Higher yields in game will drive down prices, and to all you who say it will stabilize, sure it will, but at a much lower price... The Orca is going to be a great ship for empire mining ops because it will hopefully bring ore compression to the table, and offer rorqual-like bonuses to high sec miners. For you solo-guys, make some friends and then you can take advantage of this new ship too
Indeed more yield is not really needed, but more resilience is desperately needed. Changes to PvP since the introduction of the Hulk has made current ships much more deadly. It has also introduced a large number of new threats. Throughout it all the Hulk, which was already well behind the curve, fell further behind. Now the T2 barges barely have sufficient defences to survive high-sec operations, much less low-sec or 0.0 without expensive very specialized fittings.
There is a strong desire from some vocal groups to have people move into low-sec and 0.0 instead of remaining in high-sec. One barrier to that is a lack of effective tools to work in these areas with an acceptable level of risk.
I definitely agree, and most importantly a move from empire to low/null sec is needed. The Hulk is a deep-space mining platform, and one would assume it could withstand a beating, and for rats, its capable, but against players, no. Maybe a boost to structure, make it somewhat like a freighter with a huge ammount of structure, allowing for a DCII tank, or buffer against suiciders in empire. I dont think CCP will introduce a new mining ship, and if they did, it would have to mine less than a Hulk, but making it tough would be nice. Industrials dont need to be incredibly tough, but when I think of an industrial ship, I think of an enormous ship, and thus would have a large HP buffer, just from sheer size. This I think would be a great change to promote more low sec and 0.0 mining.
Edit: By industrials I mean mining ships, ships specializing in industry-tasks, not haulers.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:14:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Transmaniacon
Yes things would be cheaper, but then the game becomes easy if you will. I think the current prices are appropriate because there should be some effort put into affording things. Deflating the mineral prices through increased supply will cause market prices to lower, and ultimately make it easier to afford ships, afford lose them, and be more careless with isk. I do not think CCP wants this to happen, and I am quite confident the Orca will not have any mining capabilities, nor will they introduce a higher yield mining ship. Also, introducing something on par with the Hulk, but tougher, will only make the Hulk obsolete.
Till the insurance change ship prices will not go lower. Only people really without any market sense sell at a price lower than platinums insurance payout-platinum insurance cost. You can find some rare ship at that price, but that is a hard floor for the production.
A ship that can be brought, insured and immediately self destructed to get more isk from isnurance will be directly self destructed by the guy building it.
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Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Strike-Force-Alpha
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:39:00 -
[110]
If T1 loot is removed from missions, the industrial part of eve will thrive again. Without missioners/ratters contributing ore to the economy, the miners will dictate the supply, and there will be an increase in prices. If the drone regions are fixed, the higher end ores will return to their ideal value and mining will become more profitable, negating the need for a better mining ship. With the current market, I feel a better mining ship will only flood the markets with more minerals, and drive prices down closer to the insurance limit.
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Piotr
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Posted - 2008.07.29 19:08:00 -
[111]
Well one thing I came to notice almost everyone. not all but almost everyone, who says we don't need a larger yield ship is a High sec miner. Which means your too scared to step outside your safe zone so you want defense.
Almost all the 0.0 people agree that higher yields are important for their ability to thrive in 0.0 and even improve it for more people to come. Mostly cause we know how to mine in low sec solo and with groups and we know how to tank and defense ships without needing extra defenses.
So we got some nice sides showing up in this, the funny part is all these empire miners whine about the overflow of minerals, well no duh cause everyone is afraid like you guys to leave cause of pirates so large chunks of population stay around empire at all times. You fly out to Aridia/Fountain and that over abundance is non existent.
Also someone said that ratters/misson runners contribute to the mineral amounts through melting. Cant speak for everyone but a lot of people i know don't waste their time looting or salvaging their missions or their wrecks from ratting cause it wastes more time then it is worth. The few people that do, do it for the rig parts, and only once in awhile do people take stuff to melt, but those people use those mins to get something like a ship built for them.
I completely disagree about lowering salvage amounts for loot cause i use those to build ammo and other things. Also your mineral problems are only in empires spaces and where large alliances mine. More isolated regions still have things like trit going for a average of 1.9-4 isk. The second large mass of people start to leave empire space the need for a Large sized mining ship will be clear. Cause it seems like me and a lot of others have no problems mining solo and in groups with our current ships in 0.0, so that means you guys just need to get some skills and grow a set.
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Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Strike-Force-Alpha
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Posted - 2008.07.29 19:40:00 -
[112]
Quote:
So we got some nice sides showing up in this, the funny part is all these empire miners whine about the overflow of minerals, well no duh cause everyone is afraid like you guys to leave cause of pirates so large chunks of population stay around empire at all times. You fly out to Aridia/Fountain and that over abundance is non existent.
Having ore compression available in high sec space (through use of the Orca) allows mining corps to export ore there, and sell at a premium. People dont mine the low end stuff in low sec and 0.0, so this new ship lets empire miners augment the low/null sec markets.
Quote:
Also someone said that ratters/misson runners contribute to the mineral amounts through melting. Cant speak for everyone but a lot of people i know don't waste their time looting or salvaging their missions or their wrecks from ratting cause it wastes more time then it is worth. The few people that do, do it for the rig parts, and only once in awhile do people take stuff to melt, but those people use those mins to get something like a ship built for them.
Ever wonder why the high end mineral market is so lousy? Drone Regions... A proficient missioner can bring in about as much ore through reprocessing loot as a Hulk pilot, and still get bounties and tags, etc. The best miner out there now is a Raven, and until CCP fixes the T1 drops, the mineral market will decline because of oversupply. Mineral acquisition needs to be left in the hands of those who spent 5 months getting a Hulk and the goodies that go with it, not someone who spent a few weeks and now has a raven running lvl 4s.
Quote:
I completely disagree about lowering salvage amounts for loot cause i use those to build ammo and other things. Also your mineral problems are only in empires spaces and where large alliances mine. More isolated regions still have things like trit going for a average of 1.9-4 isk. The second large mass of people start to leave empire space the need for a Large sized mining ship will be clear. Cause it seems like me and a lot of others have no problems mining solo and in groups with our current ships in 0.0, so that means you guys just need to get some skills and grow a set.
You just contradicted yourself here. First you say that everyone is in empire, and that there are not as many available minerals in low sec/0.0. Now you are saying that if everyone starts mining in low/null sec, that there will be a need for higher yields. If more people mine out there, then the supply increases, and there won't be a need for higher yields because you have manpower... Once again, this game is about collaboration, and a few solo guys shouldn't be able to crank out dozens of ships a month with their uber capital miner, it should require combined efforts.
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Vigilant
Gallente
Vigilant's Vigilante's
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Posted - 2008.07.29 20:20:00 -
[113]
Remove macro / farmers who sell isk made via mining and then AND only then will minerals come back up. T1 loot removal will not cause massive change.
And yes I have read all threads on t1 removal, none are convincing arguments minus o.o miners will benefit.
Not to mention, its a valid profession. Trader, yeah I know, its okay to destroy one profession so yours gets better :P
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Piotr
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Posted - 2008.07.29 23:38:00 -
[114]
You just contradicted yourself here. First you say that everyone is in empire, and that there are not as many available minerals in low sec/0.0. Now you are saying that if everyone starts mining in low/null sec, that there will be a need for higher yields. If more people mine out there, then the supply increases, and there won't be a need for higher yields because you have manpower... Once again, this game is about collaboration, and a few solo guys shouldn't be able to crank out dozens of ships a month with their uber capital miner, it should require combined efforts.
No I did not, what that meant to illustrate is that once everyone spreads out you will see how hard it is to get large quantities in the multiple areas, showing that there is a need for people in ships with larger yields. So no i did not contradict myself you just did not understand my meaning. Which is alright cause i tend to ramble after awhile.
So what that means when you start to diffuse supply, when counting all the regions as a whole, it will increase the mins supply in new areas, while decreasing the supply in the congested areas raising your prices. Which works out for everyone.
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Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Strike-Force-Alpha
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Posted - 2008.07.30 01:24:00 -
[115]
I think there is plenty of supply of ore in empire, and moving some of the miners out into 0.0/low sec will not reduce the empire supply much. Additionally, if this new capital mining ship were created, letting it into empire would make Hulks obsolete. And with more people in 0.0/low sec after the move, there will be an increased supply in 0.0 and no need for higher yields. Right now we have too many miners in empire, and so by shuffling some around, things should balance out. If there were more incentive to go to 0.0, then maybe people would go, but I dont think that incentive lies in a capital class miner.
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Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Strike-Force-Alpha
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Posted - 2008.07.30 16:50:00 -
[116]
Piotr, what about introducing mining rigs? Give them a high calibration, 200 each, and let them add 5-10% to yield, and maybe another to increase laser range.
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Vigilant
Gallente
Vigilant's Vigilante's
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Posted - 2008.07.31 02:44:00 -
[117]
IF capital mining ship is ever created, I don't think CCP would be stupid enough to let in HIGH sec. to be honest. Its like having a titan in Jita and the guy popping his DD at Jita 4/4 for sh*ts and giggles 
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Piotr
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Posted - 2008.07.31 03:40:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Transmaniacon
Piotr, what about introducing mining rigs? Give them a high calibration, 200 each, and let them add 5-10% to yield, and maybe another to increase laser range.
I was actually really really surprised that they didn't introduce any mining rigs into this game. I thought that was a direct slap to the face. Clearly all the rigs are for the different type of things to do in this game even scanning. So when i saw there was nothing but cargo hold expansion rigs i was totally disappointed. I own all the bpo rigs in the game and would not mind at all to add mining ones in the future to my collection. I currently don't have any rigs on my hulks or my covetors, and yes i still fly a covetor as well as a hulk.
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Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Strike-Force-Alpha
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Posted - 2008.07.31 11:03:00 -
[119]
Yea one would think they would have rigs for one of the top professions in the game...
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Morcam
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Posted - 2008.07.31 21:27:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Morcam on 31/07/2008 21:27:39
I agree that the orca is a worthless addition, but your idea of utterly destroying the mineral market by giving even larger ships is incredibly ignorant. The amount of minerals that barges can mine, and how many minerals ships take to construct are carefully balanced. A capital mining ship would decimate that balance. I posted a thread about a capital mining vessel that would mine only lowends a while back (about the time of the compression nerfs), and a dev came in with a simple No.
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