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Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.07.21 22:09:00 -
[1]
Anyone who has spent any time in lowsec can attest to, the constant stream of haulers moving back and forwards running courier missions is out of hand.
Player corps like MetaFarmers have tried to eradicate them in certain areas but like ****roaches and flies they return to haul 23/7.
Every now and again they will disappear as it seems CCP takes action but soon the haulers are back with new ridiculous names that seems as if someone fell asleep on the keyboard or a random combination of two words out of a dictionary.
These ISK farmers are not only a blight on the EVE economy but they are also just plain annoying (as a pirate trying to scan down targets and avoid blobs between the myriad of haulers about it really gets to me)
My proposal is to remove lowsec courier agents, or at least scrap the courier missions the agents give out in lowsec. It's almost risk free for them (Warp to Zero and Insta undock points) to reap the LP and then cash in for implants which are then sold for ISK and then sold to players. If they want to farm ISK make them do it the hard way, L4 combat missions where we the players can then hurt their operations.
Are the lowsec residents, ie. Pirates, the only ones who see this problem? Am I alone in wanting to see this stopped? I'm hoping the CSM can bring this issue before CCP and let's get this sorted.
I would also like to know CCPs stance on this? What actions they take when finding a hive of haulers etc?
A Pirates Perspective
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Soup Spoon
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.21 22:11:00 -
[2]
Something I've been wondering myself, I know it's hard to keep up with the farmers as admins, but cutting off their easiest sources of income is a good start at least.
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Tor Lann
BLACK-FLAG
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Posted - 2008.07.21 22:15:00 -
[3]
Agreed, this is out of hand.
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Kelron Queldine
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.21 22:18:00 -
[4]
Yeah, it's ridiculous. And farmer BS are more fun to pop than farmer haulers, so I'd rather they were doing combat missions. |
Kelsenn
Amarr
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2008.07.21 22:22:00 -
[5]
Couldn't agree more.
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Jorge Belda
Nomadic Soul
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Posted - 2008.07.21 22:24:00 -
[6]
Agreed, some places right now are CRAZY with this problem - more traffic than the Amarr emp station going in/out.
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Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.07.21 22:24:00 -
[7]
Remove lowsec courier agents? **** no. What about those of us that actually use them?
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Fabienne Runestar
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.21 22:45:00 -
[8]
/signed.
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Eve has taught me that Evil will always triumph, because Good is mysteriously unable to log in to defend it's assets. |
Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.21 22:47:00 -
[9]
So won't they just move to highsec agents? I don't see how this would stop them. 
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.07.21 23:15:00 -
[10]
As far as I know there aren't many l4 agents who give out constant courier missions in highsec.
The LP gained from the lowsec agents is what draws them here.
For example there are three L4 Q20 archive agents in Ingunn near where I'm based, in one station. SO they grab three missions in one go to maximise LP gain. There's something wrong right there
LP is turned into implants, implants to ISK and then sold to idiots.
A Pirates Perspective
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.22 00:16:00 -
[11]
Are pirates as a whole so thoroughly incompetent that they can't kill a defenceless hauler just because they WTZ? What's next, you're going to complain that your targets are allowed to fight back?
 Originally by: Kane Rizzel
For example there are three L4 Q20 archive agents in Ingunn near where I'm based, in one station. SO they grab three missions in one go to maximise LP gain. There's something wrong right there
LP is turned into implants, implants to ISK and then sold to idiots.
Um...you realize that legitimate players can take courier missions, right? For that matter, legitimate players can even sell isk. Having a pack of agents located well enough to make courier missions viable seems like it's kind of the whole point of offering courier missions, and saying that it should be broken up because macroers abuse it is like saying we should ban driving because people die on the roads.
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Fix the forums! |
Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2008.07.22 00:20:00 -
[12]
Someone once told me how another MMOG does it (Runescape, I think) - a random NPC wanders up to someone doing some repatative task like 'fishing' and engages the player in a 'convo'.
The NPC wants the player to act a certain way, and typically their response has to be chosen via a visual cue system. Choose the wrong item/prompt the NPC teleports the player some obnoxious distance away (in eve, think... 10-20 jumps away) but doesn't otherwise damage the player (much).
Eve already has interractive agents in space... they should make similar agents that wander around looking for pilots doing a repetative task and engage them in a 'conversation'. If the player responds correctly they get some small bonus (skipped to their destination, or somesuch). If not, they get a surprise transfer to some system annoyingly far away.
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Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.07.22 00:35:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Kane Rizzel on 22/07/2008 00:37:25
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Are pirates as a whole so thoroughly incompetent that they can't kill a defenceless hauler just because they WTZ? What's next, you're going to complain that your targets are allowed to fight back?
Popping haulers on a station/gate all day is the single most boring thing in this game, more so than mining. There are far more interesting things to do, but thank you for your expert analysis.
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Um...you realize that legitimate players can take courier missions, right? For that matter, legitimate players can even sell isk. Having a pack of agents located well enough to make courier missions viable seems like it's kind of the whole point of offering courier missions, and saying that it should be broken up because macroers abuse it is like saying we should ban driving because people die on the roads.
So abuse of a game mechanic is fine by you even if it's detrimental to the game as a whole?
ISK<>GTC is not the issue here but the sale of ISK or RMT as CCP puts it. This ISK is made from abusing a game mechanic but I suppose you're fine with that too.
SUre this might haurt the few real players who do these missions but why not just do a kill mission or is making ISK for no risk the way of things to come.
Engage your brain for a second and try at least come up with a reasonable alternative like the gentleman after you instead of attacking an idea like a rabid dog... oh wait, this is eve-o, what was I thinking
A Pirates Perspective
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The Djego
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2008.07.22 00:41:00 -
[14]
Edited by: The Djego on 22/07/2008 00:42:32
I personaly think a bigger Collarteral Payment to the Agent in the beginning and a Trasport Good that is actualy worth something on the Market would do the trick.
Atm its mostly like a wast of Amno and Sec Status since Haulers are preaty cheap(only some T1 Cargoexpenders) and the Loot is worth next to nothing. So they donŠt realy risk something. You shoot one, 5 Minutes later he is back with a new Hauler.
Otherwhise a flat Limit on Missions per Agent and Day would mayby make it a bit harder for the farmers, since they canŠt farm 23/7.
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Captain Narmio
Baptism oF Fire
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.07.22 01:59:00 -
[15]
Djego has hit on what is the real problem here to me.
Why are these elite agents paying elite capsuleers large sums of money and LP to move worthless junk around dangerous space?
It seems to me that if you want a capsuleer with a 10.0 standing to your faction to move something across lowsec, it'd better be something damn valuable to you.
Then L4 courier missions can be done by legitimate users. Hell, even increase the rewards. Only now pirates have a reason to chase you. Just like every other money making activity in the game you now have to put money on the line to make money.
I'd suggest trade goods that can be sold to NPCs, possibly NPCs from other factions only, and it should be on the order of millions of ISK per mission. However, there should be an ISK collateral for each mission, obviously, that's a bit more than you can get on the market
Now legitimate couriers can do their thing, pirates can do their thing, even macroers can continue doing their thing, but now the risk is balanced with the reward: You lose your ship on a courier run and you not only miss out on the million isk completion reward, you also lose your collateral.
Oh, and Kane here gets to ship your cargo of holodisks to a Gallentean he knows whose tastes run that way.
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.22 02:21:00 -
[16]
Sorry, no support. You've identified a real problem, but your solution (eliminate the low sec courier agents) isn't a good one.
We have a problem with macro miners. Would you advocate the removal of the asteroid belts and ice fields they feed upon?
I'd like to see CCP come up with a proactive solution. Perhaps something involving the player base. There's a lot of resentment towards script runners/macroers and CCP could put all that energy to work for them if they could present it in such a way that players could help CCP get rid of the macro problem. It isn't just pirates that suffer from the problem.
Best regards,
Windjammer
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Captain Narmio
Baptism oF Fire
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.07.22 02:41:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Windjammer
I'd like to see CCP come up with a proactive solution. Perhaps something involving the player base. There's a lot of resentment towards script runners/macroers and CCP could put all that energy to work for them if they could present it in such a way that players could help CCP get rid of the macro problem. It isn't just pirates that suffer from the problem.
Best regards,
Windjammer
Seems like you might be interested in supporting a suggestion to make shooting courier mission runners worthwhile. That involves the player base and puts their energy to work eradicating the problem the way they do best.
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Lars Erlkonig
Discrete Solutions Ltd.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 12:37:00 -
[18]
Having seen the sheer number of insta undock haulers in areas like Gusandall, I have to concur with the OP. Something needs to be done about this.
Originally by: TWD
We suck and Goonswarm are PvP gods.
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Molpadia Devaux
Minmatar
Excessive Intoxication
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Posted - 2008.07.24 13:11:00 -
[19]
There are many problems with macros, and bots, and I beleive CCP should be more proactive in stopping these and ISK farming for RLM, I do not think removing things from the game that a legimate player can use for their benefit is the answer. Placing the example 3 agents in the same station into different stations is a valid option, removing them is not.
Every character with the name lgfkjusd should be permently flagged, and watched like a hawk, monitored for EULA violations. These abuses can be corrected, by CCP, using tools that are available and should be inplace, it really is their lack of action that allows things like this to continue.
A solution that does not impact legitimate players is always preferable.
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Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.07.24 14:35:00 -
[20]
I'll agree, my original idea is at the extreme side of things but like you say something needs to be done. Either CCP needs to take a hard line against the problem or give the players the tools to deal with it.
A Pirates Perspective
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.24 20:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kane Rizzel
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Are pirates as a whole so thoroughly incompetent that they can't kill a defenceless hauler just because they WTZ? What's next, you're going to complain that your targets are allowed to fight back?
Popping haulers on a station/gate all day is the single most boring thing in this game, more so than mining. There are far more interesting things to do, but thank you for your expert analysis.
From your OP:
Originally by: Kane Rizzel
Player corps like MetaFarmers have tried to eradicate them in certain areas but like ****roaches and flies they return to haul 23/7.
Your original claim was that they could not be eradicated, even by people trying to do so. I find that to be nonsensical. AFK haulers are trivial to pop, and courier missions require standings, collateral, and ships. Start killing and podding them, and you start inflicting actual damage on their operations. I never claimed gatecamping was a fun activity - it's probably the third most boring activity in Eve, behind station camping and mining - but if you partake in it then you can break open their haulers to see what goodies are inside with very little difficulty.
Originally by: Kane Rizzel
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Um...you realize that legitimate players can take courier missions, right? For that matter, legitimate players can even sell isk. Having a pack of agents located well enough to make courier missions viable seems like it's kind of the whole point of offering courier missions, and saying that it should be broken up because macroers abuse it is like saying we should ban driving because people die on the roads.
So abuse of a game mechanic is fine by you even if it's detrimental to the game as a whole?
ISK<>GTC is not the issue here but the sale of ISK or RMT as CCP puts it. This ISK is made from abusing a game mechanic but I suppose you're fine with that too.
SUre this might haurt the few real players who do these missions but why not just do a kill mission or is making ISK for no risk the way of things to come.
Engage your brain for a second and try at least come up with a reasonable alternative like the gentleman after you instead of attacking an idea like a rabid dog... oh wait, this is eve-o, what was I thinking
Hey, if they're macroing to play 23/7, beat the shit out of them with a banhammer. I'm all for that. But doing courier missions is hardly an exploit - on the contrary, it's essentially a joke. The money, standings, and LP gains are terrible compared to combat missions, and flying through lowsec to do them instead of being safely enclosed in highsec is courting unnecessary risk. But hey, if macro-players choose to use them, then they should be dealt with just like any other macro-player.
And if you want a "reasonable solution", here's one for you: punish the guilty, don't punish the innocent.
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Fix the forums! |
Goremageddon Box
Soldiers Of Mercy
Valhalla Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.24 20:43:00 -
[22]
Lol. o/
Fix macro.
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Hottest Character Ever. |
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