EVE Search - Another actual Market PvP Story

All Channels

Market Discussions

Another actual Market PvP Story

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Absimi Liard Gallente Confederate Miners Union of Eve space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2008.07.23 18:11:00 - [1] Well, as I hope we all know not every thing one tries is successful. Sometimes it's due to forces beyond our control. Sometimes it's due to a personal character flaw. But in either case it leads to the topic of today's story about market PvP I've engaged in . . . . Some Days, You Lose. I suppose I should introduce myself. Hi, I'm Absimiliard and I'm a N00b, hopefully I got that spelling right, I have been around maybe 3-4 months. I'm mostly a builder, but some days I try my hand at the market. This is a story about just such a day, last Saturday in fact..... So last Saturday rolled around and found me in Jel, right along the Sinq/Heimatar border, where I do a lot of my building. I had decided to build rigs soon, and figured I'd save on my component cost by putting in Buy orders for them, often I'm too impatient for this simple ISK-saving technique, but not last Saturday. So I toss in three Buy Orders. One is for Fried Interface Circuits, upon which the rest of this will hinge, the other two for the remaining components. Mid-morning I check in to discover that the only order remaining is the one for Fried Interface Circuits. At this point I notice heavy competition going on, and my order for like 10k units has only gotten maybe a few hundred in total before it was overbid. So I decide to join the bidding war. Only to discover the competition are online, and active. Within seconds my order is overbid by .01 ISK. I know the 4 minute timer's importance to getting "face time" with the market. So I split my order in two. One I use to immediately overbid the competition, by .01 isk. The other I use for more overbidding when my timer is still running on the first. Since there are at least three people all trying to buy FICs this is a successful strategy in that I end up getting about 80% of the market's "face time". But as I may have mentioned I don't enjoy this sort of thing much. So after looking at the daily sales volume of around 14,000 units a day and then looking at the rate I was getting units in I decided that the vast majority of the sales must be people buying from sell orders. At that point I lost. I got out, set a few buys in nearby hubs for lower volume at a reasonable price and waited a few days. Most of them never bought. So as I see it I lost Market PvP in this case. I spent isk on components I couldn't use, since I couldn't get enough fried interface circuits. I spent ISK on the buy orders themselves that is lost. Oh, and I wasted hours of my life doing something I don't like, adjusting buy orders. All for no real gain. I'd like to end this by asking a few questions of the forum. Was splitting my order in two so I could overbid faster a generally acceptable technique for price-warring? Are there any other good tips for price-warring? Besides spending hours and isk, how could I have told before-hand that most of the sales were from Sell Orders and not to Buy Orders? Most importantly, how should I have handled this differently? -abs
Petyr Baelich Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2008.07.23 18:51:00 - [2] Originally by: Absimi Liard Was splitting my order in two so I could overbid faster a generally acceptable technique for price-warring? Are there any other good tips for price-warring? Besides spending hours and isk, how could I have told before-hand that most of the sales were from Sell Orders and not to Buy Orders? Splitting your order is always a good idea if you have the slots and you're concentrating on a few items. When I was Jita-trading I would have 2 buy orders and 3 sell orders up for each item I was trading and I'd just r-click my way down the list in my wallet, updating when necessary. I could stand about 2-3 hours of this before wanting to strangle kittens, so if this is your style of trading do it during peak hours only to maximize your gains. You can tell if activity is skewed towards the buy or sell side by looking at the average (all 3 of them, mean, median, and modal) transaction price as compared with the high and low prices in the item's history. Look at the whole month and you should be able to spot the trends. Originally by: Absimi Liard Most importantly, how should I have handled this differently? You answered this in your own post. You don't enjoy trading. You want to build things and sell them, not micromanage your supply. Find a region or system where you can buy from sell orders and still make a good profit, or get a couple mission runners to sell directly to you. As far as your forray from trading, you just gave up too soon. Not knowing how much capital you were working with, I can't say if it would have benefitted you to have destroyed the buy side of the market by increasing your bids by a large ammount, (generally a bad idea with a non-scarcity commodity such as salvage items). Basically the only thing you did wrong was to engage in an activity you don't enjoy. This is a game, after all.
Lady Centrina	Posted - 2008.07.23 19:03:00 - [3] The other "fun" thing you left out is to crash your competition. Example: Your first buy order was for 100 isk p/u Other guy puts in 100.01 You raise to 100.02 Other guy puts in 100.03 You raise to 100.04 and put in new order of 100.05 Other guy puts in 100.06 This is where you went wrong, if you did this instead: Example: Your first buy order was for 100 isk p/u Other guy puts in 100.01 You raise to 100.02 Other guy puts in 100.03 You put in small 20 unit order at 110.04 Other guy puts in 110.05 You sell all your stock to him at 110.05, making 10% for doing nothing and you still have highest order at 100.02 It's very easy and very fun to trade this way. Also, if he was hedging his margin trading you could have really ruined his day if he didn't have the isk in his wallet to fully cover the buy order. I do this all the time just to **** people off . I set aside about 100 million isk a week just for these types of activities. It makes the rest of my trading go much better.
Absimi Liard Gallente Confederate Miners Union of Eve space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2008.07.23 19:09:00 - [4] Originally by: Petyr Baelich You can tell if activity is skewed towards the buy or sell side by looking at the average (all 3 of them, mean, median, and modal) transaction price as compared with the high and low prices in the item's history. Look at the whole month and you should be able to spot the trends. I thought I had done that, but obviously I was wrong in my conclusion. Maybe the Buy and Sell orders were too close for me to be able to tell accurately from the average price? I recall they were fairly close, like 18k-23k. That average price confuses me a bit though. I'm starting to think it's a 3-month average rather than a daily average since I've seen items where it's way off, like over 100% off, compared to both buy and sell orders. I still look at that page constantly though, for the market volume numbers mostly. But I'm getting a bit sceptical about precisely which "average" it's reporting to me. I would agree that my biggest mistake was getting involved in it in the first place. But I wanted to lower my costs, which is a bad way to price but a fine way to extend your profit margins a bit. In the future I've resolved that I'll put in buy orders, but babysitting them is something I'm going to put a stop to, I think. -abs
Re Seller	Posted - 2008.07.24 08:55:00 - [5] Originally by: Lady Centrina The other "fun" thing you left out is to crash your competition. Example: Your first buy order was for 100 isk p/u Other guy puts in 100.01 You raise to 100.02 Other guy puts in 100.03 You raise to 100.04 and put in new order of 100.05 Other guy puts in 100.06 This is where you went wrong, if you did this instead: Example: Your first buy order was for 100 isk p/u Other guy puts in 100.01 You raise to 100.02 Other guy puts in 100.03 You put in small 20 unit order at 110.04 Other guy puts in 110.05 You sell all your stock to him at 110.05, making 10% for doing nothing and you still have highest order at 100.02 It's very easy and very fun to trade this way. Also, if he was hedging his margin trading you could have really ruined his day if he didn't have the isk in his wallet to fully cover the buy order. I do this all the time just to **** people off . I set aside about 100 million isk a week just for these types of activities. It makes the rest of my trading go much better. <3
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.07.24 11:17:00 - [6] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 24/07/2008 11:22:58 I use this all the time and I also know how to counter it. So start begging me... Motherships
Re Seller	Posted - 2008.07.24 11:39:00 - [7] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 24/07/2008 11:22:58 I use this all the time and I also know how to counter it. So start begging me... please, pretty please? via eve-mail even?
Vhaluus	Posted - 2008.07.24 11:43:00 - [8] ... want to know how to counter it? if they increase the price like that DON'T bid up to their level, sell them a small bit of your stock and suddenly their tactic has bitten them in the ass
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.07.24 12:21:00 - [9] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 24/07/2008 11:22:58 I use this all the time and I also know how to counter it. So start begging me... It's not that hard to counter, try to keep at least a little stock in inventory for the express purpose of filling their orders, or filling your own orders for that matter.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.07.24 14:49:00 - [10] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 24/07/2008 14:49:36 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 24/07/2008 11:22:58 I use this all the time and I also know how to counter it. So start begging me... It's not that hard to counter, try to keep at least a little stock in inventory for the express purpose of filling their orders, or filling your own orders for that matter. Good, Kazzac Elentria, good. Take your rightful place at my feet! Where's Ricdic Ricdics? Motherships
Ricdics Corporate Placement Holding	Posted - 2008.07.24 15:06:00 - [11] Originally by: YouGotRipped Good, Kazzac Elentria, good. Take your rightful place at my feet!Where's Ricdic Ricdics? Currently busy servicing your old lady.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.07.24 15:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Ricdics Originally by: YouGotRipped Good, Kazzac Elentria, good. Take your rightful place at my feet!Where's Ricdic Ricdics? Currently busy servicing your old lady. Then take my "old lady" out of your mouth when you're talking to me. Do you have any insight on the matter "at hand"?
Ricdics Corporate Placement Holding	Posted - 2008.07.24 15:42:00 - [13] What's that? You want to go next?
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2008.07.24 15:45:00 - [14] Originally by: Ricdics What's that? You want to go next? Have you been drinking again?
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.07.24 15:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Ricdics What's that? You want to go next? Have you been drinking again? No, he's probably having a "Ricdic moment" as he puts it. I understand that and if he doesn't feel like joking today that's OK too. We'll just drop it. As soon as the interest picks up I will consider sharing my 3 revolutionary market techniques I've used in making close to 10B isk in one month. Motherships
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.07.24 16:06:00 - [16] Originally by: YouGotRipped Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Ricdics What's that? You want to go next? Have you been drinking again? No, he's probably having a "Ricdic moment" as he puts it. I understand that and if he doesn't feel like joking today that's OK too. We'll just drop it. As soon as the interest picks up I will consider sharing my 3 revolutionary market techniques I've used in making close to 10B isk in one month. Contract scamming?
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.07.24 16:11:00 - [17] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria As soon as the interest picks up I will consider sharing my 3 revolutionary market techniques I've used in making close to 10B isk in one month. Contract scamming? Oh come on, take a look at my name. I enjoy ripping people off not scamming. Motherships
Absimi Liard Gallente Confederate Miners Union of Eve space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2008.07.24 17:35:00 - [18] I would very much like to hear any techniques you, or your arch-nemesis Ricdic, would care to impart Ripped. But if you and Ricdic just want to slander each other more, go ahead, that amuses me too! Seriously though, if you or anyone else have tips you're willing to impart to the public I know that I at least would love to hear them. And since I'm generally not into trading I can only think that everyone else around here who's new enough not to know them would appreciate it even more. -abs
Re Seller	Posted - 2008.07.25 07:32:00 - [19] ok i seriously need some guidance here.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.07.26 01:10:00 - [20] Originally by: Re Seller ok i seriously need some guidance here. Maple Syrup, invest everything you have in hot sweet delicious maple syrup.
Sethi3	Posted - 2008.07.26 04:21:00 - [21] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Re Seller ok i seriously need some guidance here. Maple Syrup, invest everything you have in hot sweet delicious maple syrup. Nah, invest in Quafe. That's the new hot item on the market

Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.