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Captain Blipp
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
   |
Posted - 2012.03.18 15:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ive recently come back to eve to find many new changes to the hybrid weapon systems. So now Im wondering if the new changes have made the Deimos a more effective ship. And if it did how are people using them as close range fighters or long range snipers. |
Zarnak Wulf
CTRL-Q
Iron Oxide.
281
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 16:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
HACs in general are obsolete. There are several factors to consider:
Speed
DPS and/or projection thereof
EHP
Cost
These are the big four. In the case of the Deimos it is outdone by the Talos. They have virtually the same EHP. They have virtually the same speed. (within 150m/s)The Talos exchanges some tracking to get significantly more DPS. For the sake of argument let us say that is a fair trade. Where the Deimos gets blown away though is the cost. For what you are paying to get there are more efficient choices. Consider:
Zealot vs. Oracle
Eagle vs. Naga
Munin vs. Tornado
Vaga vs. Cynabal |
Captain Blipp
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.03.18 16:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thank you for the info, Ill have to look into the Tier 3 BC. |
Belthazor4011
Battle BV
18
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Posted - 2012.03.18 18:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Although the Talos is indeed great and cheaper this is not why I personally have a Deimos. It is the T2 resist profile and then mainly vs. Therm/Kinetic.
So if I know I am fighting someone with Hybrids I take out the Deimos since its tank more than doubles to well over a 100k EHP fighting them.
I know itGÇÖs a niche, but itGÇÖs worth it to me. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1079
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 19:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
The Deimos tracks way better than the Talos.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Zarnak Wulf
CTRL-Q
Iron Oxide.
282
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 19:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:The Deimos tracks way better than the Talos.
-Liang
You're right. I'm still going to set my training to large blaster specialization later today.  |
Kessiaan
Greater Order Of Destruction
Happy Endings
102
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 19:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zealot is still the king of armor HACs in pvp.
Tier 3s look great in EFT, their real-world performance is hindered by their weak tanks and poor tracking against anything smaller than a BC. They have a role but don't obsolete anything.
My killboard - http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Kessiaan |
Noisrevbus
103
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 20:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think Zarnak is right in general but then the discussion kind of fell off a bit on the details.
Look at it like this instead:
When it comes to tracking the difference between M. LR + Tech II is not much different than the tracking of L. LR + Navy at preferrable ranges. The general things such as cost etc. still apply, but even tracking is not a non-issue. Medium weapons obviously have better potential tracking (as well as hardcap turret-sig), yet in most common application the tracking is not all too different - and definately not a factor over having twice the DPS and better alpha. That's the SHAC's obsolete.
The AHAC and this pertains very much to the Deimos got other issues instead, with the climate changing in Crucible. Deimos always were very useful for rushing HML-platforms. When alpha began to profile more throughout 2011 they took a bit of a dent as Arty alpha hit their resistance hole instead of their resistance peak and they would bloom under rush. People then began adapting DP-setups, because ships like Maels were still fairly static and it meant you could rush in spurts and then sig-tank.
Crucible (the Gallente buff-patch) changed that with the introduction of Tier 3 BC, who now retain Battleship firing solutions with SHAC mobility. Now it's no longer a question of rushing in spurts, because they will kite, extend the time you need to bloom, force you into sig-tank and then build range again. That means it's very hard for you to catch them in your timeframe of risk. Standard AHAC (such as Zealots) with just a 10mn AB will be kited indefinately, leading to stalemates beyond the odd derp or perfect web-paint tracking volleys from an experienced sniper group. That's the AHAC's obsolete.
Tier 3 BC, the devil. |
Captain Blipp
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 01:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
I appriciate all the advice, Honestly I enjoy flying Gallente and i love the thorax hull. So now Im just trying to figure out what is the best use for the Deimos. How to fit it and best fly it. |
Kaikka Carel
White syndicate
BattleStar Alliance
12
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Posted - 2012.03.19 01:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
I have another question:
In what situations Deimos is more preferable than Brutix? On the paper later seems to be superior in terms of firepower and costefficiency. |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 02:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'll be flying the Ishtar instead as it appears to be more versatile to me in this day and age. Of course, why do that when a Proteus can do it better? |
Zarnak Wulf
CTRL-Q
Iron Oxide.
283
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 03:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Captain Blipp wrote:I appriciate all the advice, Honestly I enjoy flying Gallente and i love the thorax hull. So now Im just trying to figure out what is the best use for the Deimos. How to fit it and best fly it.
Shield Fit Deimos:
High:
Heavy Nuetron II x 6
Small Nos II
Mid:
10mn Experimental MWD
LSE II
Warp Scrambler II or Warp Disruptor II
Low:
MFS II x 3
TE II x 2
DC II
Rigs:
Shield EM x 2
Hammerhead II x 5
761 DPS overheated with Null. 8.2km Optimal and 22km falloff. That will beat a Vaga inside of point range. Outside of - you can warp off. For Non-Minmatar opponents you can switch to Void. That will get you 1002 DPS overheated with 4.4km optimal and 7.7km of falloff. It only has 28k EHP sans gang links. Amusingly this is close to the Vagabond though.
The Brutix is a powerful ship. Bonuses included it has the equivalent of 8.75 turrets to the Deimos' 7.5. It lacks the range of the Deimos as well as it's speed and endurance. The fit above is cap stable. You can permarun the MWD and Blasters. I find the fitting grid of the Deimos to be more favorable as well.
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Mr Morita
Gunpoint Diplomacy
13
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Posted - 2012.03.19 16:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Shield Fit Deimos:
High:
Heavy Nuetron II x 6
Small Nos II
Mid:
10mn Experimental MWD
LSE II
Warp Scrambler II or Warp Disruptor II
Low:
MFS II x 3
TE II x 2
DC II
Rigs:
Shield EM x 2
I run a really similar fit, except I use a Tech 2 Anti-EM screen, a T2 MWD, and a T1 Extender rig. In EFT with level V skills, my fit has 28,898 ehp without bonuses or implants compared to your fit which has 28,065.
The T2 Anti-EM rig is fairly cheap; I think they run you around 30mil. |
Zarnak Wulf
CTRL-Q
Iron Oxide.
284
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 01:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Here is some food for thought. Look at the relationship between the Enyo and it's Tech one hull, the incursus. The Incursus, before any mods, has:
391 Shield
460 Armor
460 Structure
The Enyo has:
465 Shield
1099 Armor
1495 Structure
Now the Thorax and the Deimos. The Thorax:
1905 Shield
2051 Armor
2344 Structure
The Deimos:
1450 Shield
2550 Armor
3164 Structure
It's not even close to the same percentage. Should it be? The Deimos based off the Thorax would then look like:
2266 Shield
4900 Armor
7618 Structure
Now clearly that would be overpowered- especially the structure. But the key part is that the easiest way to balance HACs would be to move their EHP closer to BC territory. Again, food for thought. |
Dyniss
Argent Uprising
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 03:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
The new Duvolle labs paint job also adds a touch of bling bling with the gold accents and chrome lines.
For a Deimos I would go
5xions
1xmwd
1xweb
1xpoint
1x 1600mm rtp (I believe you can fit this)
1x damage control
1x eanm2
1xexplosion active hardner(depends on situation) or another eanm2
2x mag stab 2
2x med trimarks
5x valkyries
And while we're at it lets add a slave set to top it off |
Trinkets friend
Obstergo
NEM3SIS.
225
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 06:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
The Deimos, when backed by competent logi pilots, is a monster in wormhole combat AHAC fleets. In w-space, you start at balls-touching range and end it there. As Subversion says, you have to manage your sig radius when chasing with MWD, and this works vs Tornados more than anything, because they have 18s cycle times. Against pulse oracles, rail nagas, Talos's, the 5s cycl time vs 14s for your MWD sees you dead. Not worth undocking the Deimos unless you can get a warp at zero.
The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man.
Sun Tzu
@trinketsfriend on twatter
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