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Sid Zero
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.24 07:23:00 -
[1]
I just joined the Amarr militia last night (alt) and was busy flying my gang setup rax through amarr highsec, alone, to attend to some personal business. Jump through a gate, find a huginn sat on the other side.
Needless to say I got well raeped.
How is it possible for the enemy to operate in their enemies' highsec? Or have the faction police been disbanded?
This is most definately not a whine, I don't mind fighting the war across the entire eve universe... I'll just have to ditch the rax and fly either recon or nano when flying solo.
Just looking for some info on how exactly the system currently works.
ty
Sid
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 07:28:00 -
[2]
I really hope that your colleagues in the FDU read this and cease working with you on the grounds that you're a member of two militias.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Sid Zero
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.24 07:36:00 -
[3]
Yes but not two opposing militias...
I don't see the problem...
If you'd tell me what exactly the problem is i'd gladly retire from one of them.
Just for the record I'm completely new to FW, hence the questions.
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Prof Patpending
Warp badgers with guns
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Posted - 2008.07.24 07:40:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Sid Zero
Yes but not two opposing militias...
Amarr is at war with Gallente as well. Check out the at war thingy on the FW screen.
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Sid Zero
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.24 07:42:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Prof Patpending
Originally by: Sid Zero
Yes but not two opposing militias...
Amarr is at war with Gallente as well. Check out the at war thingy on the FW screen.
Thanks for the headsup.
In that case I'll leave the FDU asap.
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Rhanna Khurin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.24 07:49:00 -
[6]
I don't really see the problem being in both the FDU and the crusade. It isnt like you're going to be really fighting in the same places so giving away intel will hardly be of any concern.
Remember, they're two different people out of character so why should it matter at all?
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Sid Zero
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.24 07:50:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sid Zero
How is it possible for the enemy to operate in their enemies' highsec? Or have the faction police been disbanded?
Just looking for some info on how exactly the system currently works.
^ I'd be much obliged if someone could respond to this part...
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Rhanna Khurin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.24 07:56:00 -
[8]
If the enemy FW peeps warp around constantly without staying in one place for very long then they might be able to stay one step in front of any chasing NPC factional FW ships.
There's a list somewhere that tells of how many NPC FW ships are dispatched for every enemy ship type.
There have been a few threads already saying of the ineffectiveness of friendly NPC FW navies in dealing with intruders before.
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Hyperforce99
Gallente
Infinite Covenant
Lords of the Damned
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Posted - 2008.07.24 07:57:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sid Zero
Originally by: Sid Zero
How is it possible for the enemy to operate in their enemies' highsec? Or have the faction police been disbanded?
Just looking for some info on how exactly the system currently works.
^ I'd be much obliged if someone could respond to this part...
enemy highsec doesn't mean that they are safe. even factional fleets won't attack someone like concord does, you can still run away since they don't Warp scramble and they also have a slower response time.
Also they arn't as unlimited in numbers as concord is. If someone else keeps them busy another person can do his thing unhindered by faction fleets.
---------------------------------------------
Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/ |
Jones Maloy
Minmatar
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.24 08:01:00 -
[10]
there are apperantly ways to bypass the faction navy. for some reason breaking game mechanics to not be attacked by the navy is not an exploit.
faction navys do not protect high-sec areas. they are broken.
it's probably the same hugnin, cerb, ishtar group that got me in niarja.
my current theory on how to bypass faction navys is as follows:
get a nanoship, all other ships must have a dronebay. have non-nano ships assign a drone to the nanoship. nanoship speeds off with all faction navy in tow (faction navy attacks drones before the ships that launched them). nanoship and drones stay a comfortable 60km from the faction navy (the frigates only go 2.5km/sec so you only have to tank one frigate at 60-80 km). other ships are free to camp the gate without being harassed by the navy.
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Real men use 8 heatsinks. |
Datei Naru
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Posted - 2008.07.24 08:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jones Maloy
there are apperantly ways to bypass the faction navy. for some reason breaking game mechanics to not be attacked by the navy is not an exploit.
faction navys do not protect high-sec areas. they are broken.
it's probably the same hugnin, cerb, ishtar group that got me in niarja.
my current theory on how to bypass faction navys is as follows:
get a nanoship, all other ships must have a dronebay. have non-nano ships assign a drone to the nanoship. nanoship speeds off with all faction navy in tow (faction navy attacks drones before the ships that launched them). nanoship and drones stay a comfortable 60km from the faction navy (the frigates only go 2.5km/sec so you only have to tank one frigate at 60-80 km). other ships are free to camp the gate without being harassed by the navy.
Try pictureing a song with this :
Beware... beware... beware of the NURF, nurf nurf nurf 
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Tenacha Khan
E-Thugz
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Posted - 2008.07.24 08:32:00 -
[12]
Its alwasy been this way, if you kill the spawn and dont attack the second spawn they will leave you alone until you jump or dock. Fireing upon an npc that has not agressed you will lead to the sentrys opening up.
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Jones Maloy
Minmatar
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.24 08:43:00 -
[13]
you think a cerb, hugnin, and ishtar can kill 3 spawns? O.o
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Real men use 8 heatsinks. |
Wil Smithx
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Posted - 2008.07.24 08:49:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Wil Smithx on 24/07/2008 08:51:38
Originally by: Tenacha Khan
Its alwasy been this way, if you kill the spawn and dont attack the second spawn they will leave you alone until you jump or dock. Fireing upon an npc that has not agressed you will lead to the sentrys opening up.
Thats a point, why dont the sentry guns open up?
Also its worth pointing out that gallente fw peeps have taken fleets into jita and ****ed shit up
The idea is I believe that you are at war! and while it is safer to be in your own space it is not totally safe. this is emant to break people into pvp a bit easier than turning up in 0.0 and loosing all your assets, and to that extend it seems to be working....
I believe when you find people in your space your meant to kick them out lol
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Commander Raven
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Posted - 2008.07.24 09:03:00 -
[15]
Make the sentry fire as well .
Dont let them dock up in the station
ie Min cant dock at any amarr / cal station.
Inprove on the sentry add web , neut jam sentry
This would also help kill the sucide squads.
Comments.
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Jones Maloy
Minmatar
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.24 09:18:00 -
[16]
the issue is the faction navy are broken. ccp said they would fire on enemy militia members. they don't. obviously ccp lied again.
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Real men use 8 heatsinks. |
Sid Zero
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.24 09:28:00 -
[17]
I don't really mind not being safe in highsec - but the current sutuation is a bit silly.
- Either take away the faction police completely,
- or make them like concord.
Here's another idea ---> roaming in the enemies' highsec is alowed, but you can't engage WTs, but they are allowed to engage you. If they do engage you first you are allowed to fight back. If you engage first in their highsec you het concorded.
^ tbh I love this.
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GallenteCitizen20080615
Gallente
Federation War News
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Posted - 2008.07.24 09:34:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sid Zero
I don't really mind not being safe in highsec - but the current sutuation is a bit silly.
- Either take away the faction police completely,
- or make them like concord.
Here's another idea ---> roaming in the enemies' highsec is alowed, but you can't engage WTs, but they are allowed to engage you. If they do engage you first you are allowed to fight back. If you engage first in their highsec you het concorded.
^ tbh I love this.
WTH the idea of being in a war is that you cant be shot anywhere with out the involoment of concord in the first place ...you idea is complely off the rails there
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Sid Zero
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.24 09:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: GallenteCitizen20080615
WTH the idea of being in a war is that you cant be shot anywhere with out the involoment of concord in the first place ...you idea is complely off the rails there
Fine, then scrap the faction police completely, and allow me to roam the enemies' highsec cloaked in a recon.
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Tenacha Khan
E-Thugz
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Posted - 2008.07.24 09:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Commander Raven
Make the sentry fire as well .
Dont let them dock up in the station
ie Min cant dock at any amarr / cal station.
Inprove on the sentry add web , neut jam sentry
This would also help kill the sucide squads.
Comments.
Fighting in enemy hi sec is difficult and challenging at the moment, you want to make it impossible?
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FlameGlow
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.24 11:25:00 -
[21]
Edited by: FlameGlow on 24/07/2008 11:27:04
Originally by: Tenacha Khan
Originally by: Commander Raven
Make the sentry fire as well .
Dont let them dock up in the station
ie Min cant dock at any amarr / cal station.
Inprove on the sentry add web , neut jam sentry
This would also help kill the sucide squads.
Comments.
Fighting in enemy hi sec is difficult and challenging at the moment
Then you're doin it wrong, right now it's like a lowsec camping without even the need to tank sentries. 1 person in the gang sits safespotted somewhere in overtanked commandship, being repped by alts, all of them might as well be afk, all other gang mambers are free to do whatever they want in system.
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Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.07.24 11:42:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Sid Zero
Fine, then scrap the faction police completely, and allow me to roam the enemies' highsec cloaked in a recon.
…or we could leave it as it is, and you could learn to apply some sneaky tactics. The people who are doing this are, so why shouldn't you?
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Jones Maloy
Minmatar
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.24 19:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sid Zero
Fine, then scrap the faction police completely, and allow me to roam the enemies' highsec cloaked in a recon.
àor we could leave it as it is, and you could learn to apply some sneaky tactics. The people who are doing this are, so why shouldn't you?
if you mean sneaky as in using broken game mechanics in unintended ways (exploiting), then yes, people already do that.
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Real men use 8 heatsinks. |
Lord Testament
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Posted - 2008.07.24 19:20:00 -
[24]
what they do in niarja all the time is
-get a heavy dictor or a command ship fit with lots of resist
-get some neutral remote reppers
-the tank most likeley sits at a safespot in system tanking all the navy with his remote reppers
-other WTs can move freely in the system without being bothered by the navy
even if the ship that gets shot at by the npc navy is in a militia, when neutrals remote rep him they are still using neutral to tank the navy and so it would still be an exploit
there would be an easy fix for this too:
make the navy dmg increase over time!
if they navy shoots at the same ship for like 30 sec
then they should double their damage every second from that time on
can't be THAT hard to implement it
also quite funny that every time someone uses an exploit like this its ALWAYS the gallente or minmatar militia
would also be a good idea to just ban this corps/players from entering the militia
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Faife
Minmatar
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.07.24 19:31:00 -
[25]
if you see that scan down the tanker, warp in, kill it.
- -
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Banana Torres
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.24 19:42:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Banana Torres on 24/07/2008 19:43:54
Originally by: Faife
if you see that scan down the tanker, warp in, kill it.
Oh, but that would be showing initiative and we can't have that from the Caldary and their masters.
No, as the 112th Rule of Caldary Inaction states - If a problem cannot be solved by a Powerpoint presentation then whine on the forums till CCP declares it an exploit.
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Tellenta
Gallente
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 20:19:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sid Zero
I just joined the Amarr militia last night (alt) and was busy flying my gang setup rax through amarr highsec, alone, to attend to some personal business. Jump through a gate, find a huginn sat on the other side.
Needless to say I got well raeped.
How is it possible for the enemy to operate in their enemies' highsec? Or have the faction police been disbanded?
This is most definately not a whine, I don't mind fighting the war across the entire eve universe... I'll just have to ditch the rax and fly either recon or nano when flying solo.
Just looking for some info on how exactly the system currently works.
ty
Sid
I've heard the ammatar, or whatever controlled areas do not spawn faction police. could this be where you were?
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Lord Testament
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Posted - 2008.07.24 20:22:00 -
[28]
it is possible to hide the tanker so he cannot be scanned down easily
and it's CCPs job to stop exploiters
not ours
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Mercurior
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Posted - 2008.07.24 20:34:00 -
[29]
At the very least, the following should happen:
-Navy switches targets, just like gate guns in low sec
-Navy targets neutrals repping a WT, just like CONCORD targets non-flagged pilots repping a criminal
-Navy presence increases over time, so while it's possible to camp for a little while, getting free ganks all day wouldn't be possible
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Mercurior
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:12:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
You still would not be safe and would whine. I was hanging around in Caldari space yesterday, saw a crow afk at a gate, popped and podded him under navy fire, solo. In a simple brutix, nothing fancy, CCP made the navy tankable and not CONCORD strong so that this would happen. You are safer, not safe.
They should be tankable, for a short while. Not camping tankable, like you guys are doing in Niarja.
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Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:12:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Jones Maloy
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sid Zero
Fine, then scrap the faction police completely, and allow me to roam the enemies' highsec cloaked in a recon.
àor we could leave it as it is, and you could learn to apply some sneaky tactics. The people who are doing this are, so why shouldn't you?
if you mean sneaky as in using broken game mechanics in unintended ways (exploiting), then yes, people already do that.
CCP would have used CONCORD as a pattern for the faction navy is they indended them to be unbeatable. Them being beatable is clearly intended.
--
Coming to you, Assault Ships fix, by the people saying that the Gallente Recons are fine. |
Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:12:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 24/07/2008 21:13:29
Originally by: Mercurior
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
You still would not be safe and would whine. I was hanging around in Caldari space yesterday, saw a crow afk at a gate, popped and podded him under navy fire, solo. In a simple brutix, nothing fancy, CCP made the navy tankable and not CONCORD strong so that this would happen. You are safer, not safe.
They should be tankable, for a short while. Not camping tankable, like you guys are doing in Niarja.
0.5 Navy is tankable solo in an unrigged Brutix on one rep and half. It's like WAY easier than sentry tanking.
--
Coming to you, Assault Ships fix, by the people saying that the Gallente Recons are fine. |
Mercurior
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:16:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
0.5 Navy is tankable solo in an unrigged Brutix on one rep and half. It's like WAY easier than sentry tanking.
Which is what I'm saying is the problem.
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Sky Grunthor
Minmatar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:23:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Sky Grunthor on 24/07/2008 21:24:44
Edited by: Sky Grunthor on 24/07/2008 21:23:29
you volunteered for an empire war. And now you apperently think its CCP's job to protect you in empire high sec?
That is what doesn't make sense.
Yes throw your arguments of it should do this and it should do that because of this and that. CCP does not agree with you. So please continue to post that its incorrect and broken.
Its not broken, its not incorrect. They are not there to do your job for you or allow you to travel through highsec without a care in the world beyond a concordable gank. Do your job yourself.
The only diffence between faction warfare and an empire war between corporations is the plexing, missioning and the extra work an attacker has to do to be able to opperate in enemy high sec. This is as it should be and thankfully this is as it is.
This is eve where its cold and dark and a little scary. It is not a kind game or a forgiving game. If thats what you want... hello kitty is out there somewhere.
Search: Sky Grunthor |
Mercurior
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:26:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sky Grunthor
Edited by: Sky Grunthor on 24/07/2008 21:23:29
you volunteered for an empire war. And now you apperently think its CCP's job to protect you in empire high sec?
That is what doesn't make sense.
Yes throw your arguments of it should do this and it should do that because of this and that. CCP does not agree with you. So please continue to post that its incorrect and broken.
Its not broken, its not incorrect. They are not there to do your job for you or allow you to travel through highsec without a care in the world beyond a concordable gank. Do your job yourself.
The only diffence between faction warfare and an empire war between corporations is the plexing, missioning and the extra work an attacker has to do to be able to opperate in enemy high sec. This is as it should be and thankfully this is as it is.
Currently, you are correct, this is what CCP said it should be. However, as we all know, CCP tends to end up changing their mind rather drastically on occasion, and I'm betting this will be one of those times.
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Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:27:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Mercurior
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
0.5 Navy is tankable solo in an unrigged Brutix on one rep and half. It's like WAY easier than sentry tanking.
Which is what I'm saying is the problem.
Well this is at least clearly intended, CCP fails at lot of stuff but I think the graduate DPS increase of navies and the increased neuting as sec status raise is clearly a design decision.
NPC navy are only annoying in 0.5 but you need some kind of remote rep in higher sec and they do absolutely sick damage and neuting in 1.0.
It makes system sec status really mean something, if engaged in faction warfare you are really safer in your faction 1.0 than in 0.5. It makes sense from a RP point of view at least, which is why I quite like it.
Also don't under estimate the power of the no cloaking allowed in enemy highsec rule, it makes the invaded able to use recons to their full capabilities fighting the invaders, in this Falcon age quite an advantage.
And btw some fought back us and won in Niarja, at least some Caldari militia have other reflex than off to the forumwhinemobile after they get ganked.
--
Coming to you, Assault Ships fix, by the people saying that the Gallente Recons are fine. |
Sky Grunthor
Minmatar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:32:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Mercurior
Currently, you are correct, this is what CCP said it should be. However, as we all know, CCP tends to end up changing their mind rather drastically on occasion, and I'm betting this will be one of those times.
well I wouldn't be a dedicated EVE player if I didn't adapt to the rules. However looking at that stated goals and ideals of CCP, the current state of affairs is right inline with that. So personally I think that the likely hood of high sec becoming effectively off limits to attack will never happen. Most all of the suggestions I've seen to date basically do that and I see as unviable.
Of course CCP has the final say but I doubt there will be much appreciable change in the current state of affairs for high sec ganking. They may make it slightly harder but the general idea of being able to do it with an orginized force will always be there in my opinion.
Search: Sky Grunthor |
Mercurior
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:35:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Well this is at least clearly intended, CCP fails at lot of stuff but I think the graduate DPS increase of navies and the increased neuting as sec status raise is clearly a design decision.
NPC navy are only annoying in 0.5 but you need some kind of remote rep in higher sec and they do absolutely sick damage and neuting in 1.0.
It makes system sec status really mean something, if engaged in faction warfare you are really safer in your faction 1.0 than in 0.5. It makes sense from a RP point of view at least, which is why I quite like it.
Like I said, I have no problem with some camping, but being able to stay there all day is stupid.
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Also don't under estimate the power of the no cloaking allowed in enemy highsec rule, it makes the invaded able to use recons to their full capabilities fighting the invaders, in this Falcon age quite an advantage.
I won't argue with that, I'm sure that is true.
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
And btw some fought back us and won in Niarja, at least some Caldari militia have other reflex than off to the forumwhinemobile after they get ganked.
Why do you assume that's the first thing I did?
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Mercurior
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:42:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sky Grunthor
well I wouldn't be a dedicated EVE player if I didn't adapt to the rules. However looking at that stated goals and ideals of CCP, the current state of affairs is right inline with that. So personally I think that the likely hood of high sec becoming effectively off limits to attack will never happen. Most all of the suggestions I've seen to date basically do that and I see as unviable.
As I've stated, I think there's a place for SOME high sec combat, but sitting in one system all day doesn't fall into it.
Originally by: Sky Grunthor
Of course CCP has the final say but I doubt there will be much appreciable change in the current state of affairs for high sec ganking. They may make it slightly harder but the general idea of being able to do it with an orginized force will always be there in my opinion.
Like I said, I don't doubt that it will still be possible, but not in its current form (on one rep and a half, as Lubomir said).
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Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:45:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Mercurior
Like I said, I have no problem with some camping, but being able to stay there all day is stupid.
We can only stay as long as you don't fight back
Originally by: Mercurior
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
And btw some fought back us and won in Niarja, at least some Caldari militia have other reflex than off to the forumwhinemobile after they get ganked.
Why do you assume that's the first thing I did?
Not directed at you personally, it's just that the amount of whine that came from Caldari militia on various subject, from nanos to highsec to killing Daniel Jackson (W T F!) gets a bit tiresome.
The irony about the highsec ganking going on is that iudex from the Caldari militia paved the way for us. Thank you iudex!
--
Coming to you, Assault Ships fix, by the people saying that the Gallente Recons are fine. |
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