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Redbad
Minmatar
TSL Wolfpack
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Posted - 2008.07.24 10:09:00 -
[1]
When we talk about economics and the development of industry and trade, isn't it important that stuff moves around? Mobility gives new possibilities and opportunities for traders, producers and haulers alike.
I'm playing this game for a few years now and always felt that there might be missing an intermediate transportation vehicle or (quite possibly) that I am still overlooking something.
A Gallente Iteron V fit (for max. cargo with cargo containers) holds about 47.000 m3's; thats the max what you can get with an industrial and with cargo containers. Normally a fully fitted Badger mk II would just hold one battlecruiser or just 2 cruisers for transportation. Moving lower end minerals against margins of about 0.4 ISK per unit for more then 8-10 jumps are certainly not that interesting with these small volumes.
Then we have the Transports class ships (tech II industrials) that offer extra protection or a specific role (blockade running), but not extra cargo space over the Industrials.
Carriers might be handy to transport ships, but their inability to enter high-sec space makes them limited to that role and I regret to say it: it is not meant to be used that way i.m.o.; they are mean looking battle support ships.
We then have the Freighters that at least move a whopping 750.000 m3's or more. Slow as hell, difficult to operate and something that is certainly "overkill" for moving around some stuff that needs frequency rather than large volume.
Where is the ship that is between that 47.000 m3's (with cargo containers) and the massive freighters with at least 750.000 m'3 (without containers and skills)?
Is the gap really that big or am I overlooking something? Furthermore, if I don't overlook something, is my feeling correct that an introduction of an Intermediate Freighter or Super-Industrial is a good thing for New Eden's Trade and Economy? Would it be better that more stuff can be moved around without endless little hauls with no margins to give away to the hauler? Or move it with one large haul with risky and lack of frequency?
In short: is there a market for an ship that is bigger than an industrial and smaller than a freighter to move stuff around?
RB
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SonOfAGhost
Minmatar
Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.07.24 10:20:00 -
[2]
Jump freighters are inbetween sizewise.
Containers (that give extra space) can't be used in freighters, skill increase in volume only.
I don't really see much market for something in between. By the time you get that last level of industrial, even if something else was available, most people inclined to haul items would just get a freighter for the versatility anyway. Only folks I can see that wouldn't are non-industrialists anyway. So they couldn't justify the expense of a freighter for how little actual use they'd put it to. Which is where courier contracts come in, hopefully soon with a larger maximum volume.
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 Originally by: kedoremos
EVE's economy is **** for CPAs, Annuities, and Stock Brokers.
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Palava
Substantial Logistics
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Posted - 2008.07.24 11:02:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Palava on 24/07/2008 11:09:54
Interesting point. There seems to be a big hole m¦ wise, and I also agree with the time argument. But another point we should look at is ISK per m¦. The question if such a ship is needed depends on the answer on this question: Are there items to be moved around that are between a very high ISK/m¦ ratio (finished goods, weapons etc.) and a very low ISK/m¦ ration like minerals? First could be moved by regular indies/transports, for the latter we have freighters. Thinking about that, I would say yes, but only a small yes (also I certainly overlook many items): Like you said, ships are difficult to move and I think there are also some goods for production that have a medium ISK/m¦ ratio.
The question whether its good or bad for the economy, I can't really answer. As first thought I imagine it would increase the courier business, but there are some other implications:
Local/ regional / universal price differences result from exactly that: Differences in local environment, distances, and many other locationfactors. More possibilities to move stuff around would mean that in many more places the markets would move to their respective equilibrium. So, final conclusion: More movement of goods leads to a leveling of the economy/markets.
Whether its good or bad for someone depends on where he stands in this economy.
I can't say if this all depends solely on the way how goods are being moved, if this is a trend at all or, on the opposite, an ultimate development that would only be accelerated.
edit: aesthetically
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jna
Caldari
Black Ash Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.07.24 11:07:00 -
[4]
Edited by: jna on 24/07/2008 11:08:16
Edited by: jna on 24/07/2008 11:07:25
Here on Post 25:
0036 Small Freighters
A spaceship type that is somewhere between an industrial and a freighter is currently in development. Abilities may include the use of cans and capital tractor beams, but design features are subject to change.
Edit: fixed linky
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Caeleste naves interretis res gravissimas sunt |
Kiyoshi Aphelion
Eve Liberation Force
Liberty.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 11:26:00 -
[5]
I absolutely concur. I'm currently requesting feedback on this very forum for an IPO that I am going to release which may address the situation.
Rendari-Shadowfire Industries IPO
One of the things my pilots and I discussed was precisely the point you bring up. One viewing contracts there seem to be a great deal which are intermediate in size, making use of multiple haulers, flying simultaneously, to handle the load in an efficient manner. Efficient in terms of time that is. The profit margin is reduced significantly when a second pilot is introduced, and if a third is needed, it almost makes the load not worth the time.
Consequently, as an IPO manager, I firmly believe that an intermediate sized hauling vessel is not only required, but desperately needed. Excellent points guys, and please, feel free to pop in on my link and give me some advice.
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Neferte Oryssal
Letter of Marque Buccaneers
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Posted - 2008.07.24 12:01:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Neferte Oryssal on 24/07/2008 12:01:15
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.07.24 12:02:00 -
[7]
What about the rorqual? 137k m3 max cargo w/ 2 t2 rigs and 3 cargo expander 2s. Can't enter highsec, though.
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Redbad
Minmatar
TSL Wolfpack
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Posted - 2008.07.24 12:03:00 -
[8]
Thanks for the replies, awesome links to the subject that I couln't find!
I agree with you Palava that there might be unforseen economical consequences and a good definition of the role of such a Super Industrial has to be taken in account.
RB
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.07.24 12:08:00 -
[9]
I thought they were developing the legendary "Orca" a cross between the Rorqual and a hauler with the ablitity to enter high sec.
Motherships
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.07.24 12:20:00 -
[10]
Originally by: YouGotRipped
I thought they were developing the legendary "Orca" a cross between the Rorqual and a hauler with the ablitity to enter high sec.
Orca will be the high sec command miner ship
What is needed is a seperate intermediate hauler between the max iteron and freighter. Most of us would be satisfied to carry at minimum 150k m3 and have it scale up with skills and mods little by little from there. |
Chira Netanru
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:07:00 -
[11]
The only way I can see intermediate transport ships not being a complete failure is if each faction's version were only able to go in that faction's space, being KOS elsewhere.
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MilowFV
Echo Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.25 03:06:00 -
[12]
I just hope it isn't as slow as a freighter, I know I hate flying mine.
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