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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.07.24 16:58:00 -
[1]
This popped into my head last night and I found the idea rather entertaining in terms of what the out come would be, sense I really donĘt know that much about genetics I figure someone on an international forum might.
Say for moment there are two identical twin females. Both are the same age, both DNA is within the definition of Monozygotic twins are and so forth. Now say for a moment both females are impregnated by a single individual, ignoring the odds for a moment lets say that the DNA of the eggs that are both being carried by the twins at the moment are identical as well as the DNA of the sperm that reaches each egg.
If each separate fetus being carried by the two female twins DNA falls into the definition of what Monozygotic twins are, would that make the two fetus genetically siblings or would there naturally be enough genetic deviation to classify each fetus as simply genetically related?
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.07.24 17:01:00 -
[2]
Find me a set of twins and I'll test this theory for you (Maybe I can talk my ex into bringing her sister next time...)
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Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.24 17:01:00 -
[3]
I think that genetically, yes, they would be siblings.
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.07.24 17:03:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Find me a set of twins and I'll test this theory for you (Maybe I can talk my ex into bringing her sister next time...)
You assume im talking about humans though, for all you know I could be thinking about dogs when I posted this.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Plumpy McPudding
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Posted - 2008.07.24 17:09:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Find me a set of twins and I'll test this theory for you (Maybe I can talk my ex into bringing her sister next time...)
You assume im talking about humans though, for all you know I could be thinking about dogs when I posted this.
And what's your point?
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.07.24 17:12:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Plumpy McPudding
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Find me a set of twins and I'll test this theory for you (Maybe I can talk my ex into bringing her sister next time...)
You assume im talking about humans though, for all you know I could be thinking about dogs when I posted this.
And what's your point?
No point really, as I said at the beginning its something that popped into my head last night and im wondering if anyone here with a better understanding of genetics then I could clearify if such a thing, again ignoring the odds, would actually be possible.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Fraszoid
Caldari
Condottieri Industries
The Economy
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Posted - 2008.07.24 17:15:00 -
[7]
Its much more fun dealing with humans. So basically it boils down to impregnating 2 women with the same embryo. From a genetic standpoint, they would be monozygotic twins, being its the same DNA and fundamentally the same process. The outcome would likely be they would be different, as there is no guarantee that the mothers would handle the pregnancy the same way. So there could be differences, albeit slight ones.
Would be an interesting experiment to try though. I'd try to take it 1 step further, 2 pairs of monozygotic twins, 1 pair male, 1 pair female and breed them twice with eachother (M1/F1, M2/F2 then M1/F2, M2/F1)to see what the resulting off spring looks like, and the similarities.
Yes I realize the way I phrased my experiment sounds cold and impersonal, but its clear.
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Everyone is born right handed, only the great over come it.
Check out my players guide at:
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.07.24 17:16:00 -
[8]
I tried to read your post about 3 times. I try to understand and scientifically answer your question. But the described situation just turns into a 70ties pronflick in front of my mental eye, midpost.
So basically, I don't know, but can I has some more?
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.07.24 17:28:00 -
[9]
They'd vary a little bit, mostly due to cross-linking (which is pretty random) and depending on which of the 2 strands the child inherited from each chromosomal pair.
In the end I'd say the differences would be large enough to classify them as closely related, but not as genetic siblings.
The chances of both receiving such closely matched cross-linking and other random events would be almost (but not completely) zero.
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Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.07.24 17:35:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Meiyang Lee
They'd vary a little bit, mostly due to cross-linking (which is pretty random) and depending on which of the 2 strands the child inherited from each chromosomal pair.
In the end I'd say the differences would be large enough to classify them as closely related, but not as genetic siblings.
The chances of both receiving such closely matched cross-linking and other random events would be almost (but not completely) zero.
This. It's nearly impossible for that to happen. Also, I think they would technically not be siblings even if your scenario happened... they'd be more like clones.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.24 17:38:00 -
[11]
/innuendoexplosion
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Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
You can even get a midget with a camera to sit on the floorboard.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.07.24 17:52:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Patch86
/innuendoexplosion
I think your signature quote fits nicely into this thread....
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Fraszoid
Caldari
Condottieri Industries
The Economy
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Posted - 2008.07.24 18:03:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Eternal Error
Originally by: Meiyang Lee
They'd vary a little bit, mostly due to cross-linking (which is pretty random) and depending on which of the 2 strands the child inherited from each chromosomal pair.
In the end I'd say the differences would be large enough to classify them as closely related, but not as genetic siblings.
The chances of both receiving such closely matched cross-linking and other random events would be almost (but not completely) zero.
This. It's nearly impossible for that to happen. Also, I think they would technically not be siblings even if your scenario happened... they'd be more like clones.
I think they would be genetic twins if it occured naturally, but the only way to reliably test this is with a little genetic engineering to split the zygoate and implant them in the twins to see the outcome. They wouldn't be clones per se as cloning requires removing the nucleus of a cell and replacing it with the nucleus of another cell. The offspring would be technical monozygotic twins, but being from separate mothers not true twins. Genetically they would be identical like their mothers.
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Everyone is born right handed, only the great over come it.
Check out my players guide at:
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Akiba Penrose
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.07.24 18:52:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
...ignoring the odds for a moment lets say that the DNA of the eggs that are both being carried by the twins at the moment are identical as well as the DNA of the sperm that reaches each egg.
That is actually not relevant.
What matters in the case of genetic siblings is if their chromosones is derived from the same 'chromosone pool'. The eggs and sperm do not need to be identical to create genetic siblings.
Even when identical twin females have children with identical twin males, so that the children have different father and mother, they are considered genetic siblings. Because identical twins have the same DNA and the kids will all get their choromosones from the same 'chromosone pool'.
So yes, they would be genetical twins. 
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.24 19:54:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Dantes Revenge on 24/07/2008 19:55:21
Twins would necessarily not bear identical children. To begin with, someone already mentioned that both mothers would handle the pregnancy differently. Their diet, exercise and a whole lot more would have to be identical since all this goes to contribute to the growth of the child.
Additionally, there is no such thing as true identical twins. I have known a few and although they may look similar, there are enough genetic differences to be able to tell them apart. On top of this, you have personality and learning ability which can be vastly different, one generally excels while the other does not even without the sibling dominance factor.
All this would modify the genetic make-up of each of the mothers eggs so that, even from the same father, the odds against the chldren looking even similar would be very high.
Edit: Note that this is only a theory. Find me some twin sisters and I'll test it willingly.
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Akiba Penrose
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.07.24 20:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dantes Revenge
there are enough genetic differences to be able to tell them apart.
Differences maybe, but not genetic differences. They have the same DNA.
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.24 20:49:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Akiba Penrose
Originally by: Dantes Revenge
there are enough genetic differences to be able to tell them apart.
Differences maybe, but not genetic differences. They have the same DNA.
The same DNA would indicate that they would have the same birthmarks, the same defects and skin blemishes like moles, pockmarks etc. It is most definitely not the case even with identical twins.
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There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. |
Akiba Penrose
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:15:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Dantes Revenge
The same DNA would indicate that they would have the same birthmarks, the same defects and skin blemishes like moles, pockmarks etc. It is most definitely not the case even with identical twins.
Not all human attributes is determined/caused by genes. Some are determined by the environment around them, which probably is the case with birthmarks and moles. (Identical twins actually have different fingerprints.)
To say that monozygotic twins have different DNA is like saying you have different DNA in your arms.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:24:00 -
[19]
OK, serious answer.
They would not be "siblings", because the very definition of the term is that they have the same parents (they'd be half-siblings, and so genetically related anyway). If both twins had truly identical DNA though, the children would be as genetically similar as two full siblings.
The children wouldn't be like twins themselves though, any more than any other pair of non-twinned siblings.
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Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
You can even get a midget with a camera to sit on the floorboard.
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Akiba Penrose
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:44:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Akiba Penrose on 24/07/2008 21:45:37
Originally by: Patch86
They would not be "siblings"
OP was refering to genetical siblings.
Originally by: Patch86
If both twins had truly identical DNA though, the children would be as genetically similar as two full siblings.
What determins if someone is genetical siblings is not how similar their genes are, but if they got their genes from the exact same "parent gene pool" or not.
If the same man has children with monozygotic twins, the children are per definition "genetical siblings", even if one of them is white and other is black. Because the exact same "parent gene pool" have given chromosones to both kids.
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