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Pteranodon
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Posted - 2008.07.25 13:09:00 -
[1]
Skills-love em or hate them they seem here to stay but I'm curious as to how they were originally worked out. Were they designed like a hand & glove or do we train some skills which were introduced because....well....somebody screwed up. An example being the skills that improve CPU & power grid. Did we have a ship some weapons & then somebody said "gosh these can never be fitted to this new ship" lets invent a skill that fixes this "slight" oversite.
I ponder this point because of the massive amount of skills & often wonder if some were put in to cover the game mechanic initial short comings or whether eveything is as it is by design. Interesting at least for me.
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Ami Nia
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:16:00 -
[2]
Works as intended by design.
The design changed over time (as intended by meta-design).
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Admiral Madbull
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:15:00 -
[3]
Learning skills came to counter the amount of time it took to train the vast number of skills, and make some ships easier to get to.
something that the devs have regreted they introduced becouse of all the like/dislike of them.
Other then that i cant recall any other skills that were introduced becouse someone screwed up.
then again i might be wrong...
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Bladen Kerst
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.28 23:52:00 -
[4]
I am wondering how they are going to handle this gap between vets and newbies which constantly keeps widening.
We will probably get +7 implants in near future in order for new players being easier to catch up.
Maybe they will even introduce some imba new bloodlines or even Jovians.
maybe we will get another set of learning skills too.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2008.07.29 03:19:00 -
[5]
wut
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Krissam
Caldari
Nomads
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.07.29 07:12:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Bladen Kerst
I am wondering how they are going to handle this gap between vets and newbies which constantly keeps widening.
We will probably get +7 implants in near future in order for new players being easier to catch up.
Maybe they will even introduce some imba new bloodlines or even Jovians.
maybe we will get another set of learning skills too.
the only way to "fix" that is to make characters start with more and more sp each expansion
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.29 07:34:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Bladen Kerst
I am wondering how they are going to handle this gap between vets and newbies which constantly keeps widening.
We will probably get +7 implants in near future in order for new players being easier to catch up.
Maybe they will even introduce some imba new bloodlines or even Jovians.
maybe we will get another set of learning skills too.
Maybe new players can realise that they can still enjoy the game even if someone has more SP than them. After a fairly easily achieved point, more SP = more variety of ships. It's not like 10M SP = level 10 and 70M SP = level 70 so the 10M SP guy always loses no matter what.
New players get a HUGELY easier start to the game than old players did, in every possible way.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Lady Aja
Caldari
Blood Raider Domination
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Posted - 2008.07.29 11:54:00 -
[8]
this of it this way.
how far in life can you go with no or little education?
the same applies to eve. the more you"educate" youre character the better is does in the long run.
as for catching up on skill points who cares?
you spec. I am speccing in amarr. mostly cruisers to start.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.29 19:44:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bladen Kerst
We will probably get +7 implants in near future in order for new players being easier to catch up. (...) maybe we will get another set of learning skills too.
This would widen the gap. New players wouldn't be able to 'catch up' because old players already have the prerequisites and the cash to get those new implants/skills whereas less experienced or new players would first have to get Cybernetics V, Adv learning IV and loads of isk before getting any benefit from it.
Estel Arador corp services (high-sec POS/JCs) just 120M isk! |
Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.07.30 06:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Bladen Kerst
I am wondering how they are going to handle this gap between vets and newbies which constantly keeps widening.
We will probably get +7 implants in near future in order for new players being easier to catch up.
Maybe they will even introduce some imba new bloodlines or even Jovians.
maybe we will get another set of learning skills too.
Only way to fix it is to stop time a +7 implant whould only worsen the problem.
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Tammarr
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Posted - 2008.07.30 10:19:00 -
[11]
Remove learning skills tbh.
I wouldnt mind and I have two 5/5's
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Camuran
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.30 12:31:00 -
[12]
I don't understand what the problem is...
I see two issues:
1. there are skills, which you can gather points in, and some players have more.
2. there is experience, and some players have had more, due to playing longer, or being in the game longer.
I grant you that having more skills and more points will on some ships make a difference, but not all that much. Even the higher rank skills take 5 days or so to get to level 4, which means you are only 'behind' by 20% on that skill compared to players who have level 5. The difference therefore is minimal.
It is the experiences that older players have, in understanding the capabilities of ships and modules, the uses, the tricks, the ways, the do's and don'ts, that make the bigger difference. Take BOB, with whom I am completely unfamiliar, but I guess is that they are relatively organized, and have a lot of experience playing, this makes them formidable compared to a noob. But if you happen to be in the singular situation of catching a BOB player, for example, in a noobship traveling somewhere, and you are flying anything bigger, guess who is going to own...
Think about how many skills apply to a frigate. There is a relatively clear limit to that, and therefore to become good at flying frigates has little to do with skills. It has to do with experience.
As for catching up... Why would anyone want this? when would anyone want this to happen? I don't see the point to it. The experience would still count as the major difference factor.
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Lady Aja
Caldari
Blood Raider Domination
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Posted - 2008.08.01 02:20:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Camuran
I don't understand what the problem is...
I see two issues:
1. there are skills, which you can gather points in, and some players have more.
2. there is experience, and some players have had more, due to playing longer, or being in the game longer.
I grant you that having more skills and more points will on some ships make a difference, but not all that much. Even the higher rank skills take 5 days or so to get to level 4, which means you are only 'behind' by 20% on that skill compared to players who have level 5. The difference therefore is minimal.
It is the experiences that older players have, in understanding the capabilities of ships and modules, the uses, the tricks, the ways, the do's and don'ts, that make the bigger difference. Take BOB, with whom I am completely unfamiliar, but I guess is that they are relatively organized, and have a lot of experience playing, this makes them formidable compared to a noob. But if you happen to be in the singular situation of catching a BOB player, for example, in a noobship traveling somewhere, and you are flying anything bigger, guess who is going to own...
Think about how many skills apply to a frigate. There is a relatively clear limit to that, and therefore to become good at flying frigates has little to do with skills. It has to do with experience.
As for catching up... Why would anyone want this? when would anyone want this to happen? I don't see the point to it. The experience would still count as the major difference factor.
if ccp turn this into a grinding game for skills.
I wil happily web a riod or a can and orbite with my ab going and some simple lasers and maybe sick some drones on. 23/7 for a week lol.
that alone will cover cap recharge, all gunnery skills related to the type of gun, navigation, and electronic wf.
problem is. when youre off line youre not skilling up if it becomes liek all other mmorpgs.
at the mo i am happy. leave it.
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ThaDollaGenerale
Endless Destruction
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Posted - 2008.08.01 08:33:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Bladen Kerst
I am wondering how they are going to handle this gap between vets and newbies which constantly keeps widening.
We will probably get +7 implants in near future in order for new players being easier to catch up.
Maybe they will even introduce some imba new bloodlines or even Jovians.
maybe we will get another set of learning skills too.
So the time, energy and money that I've put in the game become useless? It's a fact of life that people have to used to: that there will always be someone with more Skillpoints than them.
I play the game because everyone is different, not the same.
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Asmira Bronas
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Posted - 2008.08.01 10:45:00 -
[15]
It would be nice if there was a small bonus to learning speed attached to a player's join date. Something so that, with all attributes being equal, a newer player skills slightly faster than an older player. This bonus should be small enough that the new player can never catch up to an older player, but over time will continually close the gap.
While I think that older players should have an advantage not only limited to their skills gained as a player, it is pretty frustrating to be a new player and know my character will always be x amount of sp behind.
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sableye
principle of motion
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.08.01 11:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Asmira Bronas
It would be nice if there was a small bonus to learning speed attached to a player's join date. Something so that, with all attributes being equal, a newer player skills slightly faster than an older player. This bonus should be small enough that the new player can never catch up to an older player, but over time will continually close the gap.
While I think that older players should have an advantage not only limited to their skills gained as a player, it is pretty frustrating to be a new player and know my character will always be x amount of sp behind.
you will always be behind someone even me with 70 mil plus points am still always gonan be behind people, the only thing more skillpoints equels is a more expensive clone and a bit of ship variety.
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Salinity Now
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Posted - 2008.08.01 12:19:00 -
[17]
Hello People. Speaking as noob, with only 2 weeks in the game, I would like to submit that the entire skill issue is not as important to all the new players as might be implied by the general tone in these forums. I for one, dont feel any excessive disadvantage due to someone being "ahead" of me in the skills department. This is a complex game and the skill issue is only a small aspect of the game. For instance the other night when I came out of the local FBO and saw 3 pirate battle ships hovering over the base, I didnt feel threatened by their "skill" set in my frigate..... After about 5 seconds I realized that they probably werent interested in my frigate or anything someone with my limited resources and experience might carry and I went on with my mission. I also know that by the time I might be ble to afford a battleship I will probably be able to afford to train to fly one. I also realize that there are a lot more skills needed to operate a battleship than needed to just "fly" one. I dont see it as that of a big deal and I bet later on when I do move to the ships with more capability the difference between flying and operating the ship to its fullest capability will be the avenue for a noob like myself to train and fit the ship in an inteligent manner to take advantage of the units potential abilities. That complexity is the beauty of this game. The learning curve is steep but really after the first couple of days, the .5 to 1 environment is pretty easy to suvive in. Honestly learning to operate the noob ships is actually takes longer than "training" for them in the game does. There is plenty to do and there is the promise of new areas to explore later when my real ship handling skills and game "trained skills" are better. Speaking as a total noob, I say leave it like it is as long as there is plenty of space for the newer players to operate in. This gives us time to learn the game and build our real skills, trained skills, and fortune until we are stong enough to venture into the "player rulled" areas. The game seems to be working pretty good for me.
Regards
Sal....
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Tellnan Matkiel
The Industrial Consortium
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Posted - 2008.08.01 15:30:00 -
[18]
Amusing how almost instantly this general skills topic morphed into the old learning skills debate.
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Lady Aja
Caldari
Blood Raider Domination
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Posted - 2008.08.01 20:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tellnan Matkiel
Amusing how almost instantly this general skills topic morphed into the old learning skills debate.
well learnings are heavily involved with skills. no learning skills = slow training.
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Ringo Jeicha
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.01 22:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Salinity Now
Hello People. Speaking as noob, with only 2 weeks in the game, I would like to submit that the entire skill issue is not as important to all the new players as might be implied by the general tone in these forums. I for one, dont feel any excessive disadvantage due to someone being "ahead" of me in the skills department. This is a complex game and the skill issue is only a small aspect of the game. For instance the other night when I came out of the local FBO and saw 3 pirate battle ships hovering over the base, I didnt feel threatened by their "skill" set in my frigate..... After about 5 seconds I realized that they probably werent interested in my frigate or anything someone with my limited resources and experience might carry and I went on with my mission. I also know that by the time I might be ble to afford a battleship I will probably be able to afford to train to fly one. I also realize that there are a lot more skills needed to operate a battleship than needed to just "fly" one. I dont see it as that of a big deal and I bet later on when I do move to the ships with more capability the difference between flying and operating the ship to its fullest capability will be the avenue for a noob like myself to train and fit the ship in an inteligent manner to take advantage of the units potential abilities. That complexity is the beauty of this game. The learning curve is steep but really after the first couple of days, the .5 to 1 environment is pretty easy to suvive in. Honestly learning to operate the noob ships is actually takes longer than "training" for them in the game does. There is plenty to do and there is the promise of new areas to explore later when my real ship handling skills and game "trained skills" are better. Speaking as a total noob, I say leave it like it is as long as there is plenty of space for the newer players to operate in. This gives us time to learn the game and build our real skills, trained skills, and fortune until we are stong enough to venture into the "player rulled" areas. The game seems to be working pretty good for me.
Regards
Sal....
Wall of text, tl;dr
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Braaaiiinnnsssssssssss |
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