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Blasterboats: Is it really a nerf?

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TheG2 Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:26:00 - [1] I've seen lots of complaints that blasterboats would be nerfed by these changes, however I don't think it changes much. For example: Battleship is moving at 800m/s towards its target, it comes within 10km, web hits, it slows to 500m/s by the time he hits the 7.5km/s scrambler where his MWD gets cut, he continues to drift closer to his target (because he has also cut off his targets MWD and webbed him with his own web/scrambler) and well within to optimal range. The fight is now exactly as before except web is slightly less effective, so if the smaller ship is using an AB instead of a MWD, they choose their fit correctly and therefore should have an advantage in this case. Not only does this encourage more evenly matched fights due to the fact that most ships move at the same speeds, this would work across all ship types (Frigate, Cruiser, BC, BS, etc) equally as the physics are a constant variable. Unless I drastically mis-read the patch notes (which is possible) I don't think the blasterboats are getting much of a nerf at all.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:31:00 - [2] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2008 18:33:23 I agree. Being webbed is now not equal to death though so in that regard, I guess I can see it as a nerf for blaster pilots. But it makes the game more interesting, at least from my point of view. It wont be so bad. We will try it on the test server and start liking it, thats my prediction. --- Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
Rhanna Khurin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:32:00 - [3] Let us use both an AB and a MWD on the same ship!
Kelron Queldine Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:33:00 - [4] Originally by: Rhanna Khurin Let us use both an AB and a MWD on the same ship! You can.
Dizeezer Velar Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:34:00 - [5] Originally by: TheG2 I've seen lots of complaints that blasterboats would be nerfed by these changes, however I don't think it changes much. For example: Battleship is moving at 800m/s towards its target, it comes within 10km, web hits, it slows to 500m/s by the time he hits the 7.5km/s scrambler where his MWD gets cut, he continues to drift closer to his target (because he has also cut off his targets MWD and webbed him with his own web/scrambler) and well within to optimal range. The fight is now exactly as before except web is slightly less effective, so if the smaller ship is using an AB instead of a MWD, they choose their fit correctly and therefore should have an advantage in this case. Not only does this encourage more evenly matched fights due to the fact that most ships move at the same speeds, this would work across all ship types (Frigate, Cruiser, BC, BS, etc) equally as the physics are a constant variable. Unless I drastically mis-read the patch notes (which is possible) I don't think the blasterboats are getting much of a nerf at all. Are you suggesting that Blasterships should all be equipping scramblers instead of disruptors with the patch change? [/url]
Rhanna Khurin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:36:00 - [6] Originally by: Kelron Queldine Originally by: Rhanna Khurin Let us use both an AB and a MWD on the same ship! You can. Can i? Dya know i don't think i have ever tried. But i do remember someone saying once i couldn't but i havent tested it.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:39:00 - [7] Originally by: TheG2 Unless I drastically mis-read the patch notes (which is possible) I don't think the blasterboats are getting much of a nerf at all. Yes, you correctly read them. They'll have issues vs smaller ships with ABs, but, hey, MWD+web+point shouldn't solve all your problems in all cases, I like it. I do have to laugh at you considering you think Hurricanes use blasters though Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Khandara Seraphim StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:39:00 - [8] I think a disruptor + web vs scrambler is a good tradeoff now. For most, the 2 slots will be worth it for the extra scram range but for others 1 slot will suffice. I want to know why being scrambled at 7.5km is "the end" for blaster boats. I would assume this is sufficiently close that you can either be in range or web/scram them yourself to get closer. Plus gallente recons get a pretty cool boost that doesnt overpower damps again!
Siona Windweaver	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:41:00 - [9] Originally by: Rhanna Khurin Originally by: Kelron Queldine Originally by: Rhanna Khurin Let us use both an AB and a MWD on the same ship! You can. Can i? Dya know i don't think i have ever tried. But i do remember someone saying once i couldn't but i havent tested it. You can fit both but cant active both at the same time.
TheG2 Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:41:00 - [10] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: TheG2 Unless I drastically mis-read the patch notes (which is possible) I don't think the blasterboats are getting much of a nerf at all. Yes, you correctly read them. They'll have issues vs smaller ships with ABs, but, hey, MWD+web+point shouldn't solve all your problems in all cases, I like it. I do have to laugh at you considering you think Hurricanes use blasters though Battleships should have issues against smaller boats, thats why we have different sized guns. Although no idea where you're getting the Hurricane reference though.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:42:00 - [11] Blasters in general have fallen behind. It's time they received a buff, something like ridiculous damage output.
Wardeneo	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:43:00 - [12] Edited by: Wardeneo on 25/07/2008 18:42:55 Originally by: Khandara Seraphim I think a disruptor + web vs scrambler is a good tradeoff now. For most, the 2 slots will be worth it for the extra scram range but for others 1 slot will suffice. I want to know why being scrambled at 7.5km is "the end" for blaster boats. I would assume this is sufficiently close that you can either be in range or web/scram them yourself to get closer. Plus gallente recons get a pretty cool boost that doesnt overpower damps again! will a 7.5km scram (2 points) still be two points? or will it become a 1 point? wardeneo
Dizeezer Velar Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:43:00 - [13] Originally by: Khandara Seraphim I want to know why being scrambled at 7.5km is "the end" for blaster boats. I would assume this is sufficiently close that you can either be in range or web/scram them yourself to get closer. quote] Quite often before you are in this range, the target will have had a chance to warp off. In my experience a 24km disruptor has been pretty essential to a blaster ship unless you only fly in larger groups. If you fly in large gangs it wouldn't be an issue. [/url]
TheG2 Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Blasters in general have fallen behind. It's time they received a buff, something like ridiculous damage output. Go up against a well fit Kronos and tell me that again. My corp mate utterly destroys ships with it :\|
Khandara Seraphim StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:44:00 - [15] I don't know, but to be honest i'm comfortable with either. A 7.5km scram radius isn't going to catch anyone that's stabbed and trying to warp away unless you're sneaking up on them in a recon, so the 2 pts vs 1 pt question isn't going to come up too often.
Dizeezer Velar Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:46:00 - [16] Originally by: TheG2 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Blasters in general have fallen behind. It's time they received a buff, something like ridiculous damage output. Go up against a well fit Kronos and tell me that again. My corp mate utterly destroys ships with it :\| oh i agree, kronos right now is a very nice ship. [/url]
Khandara Seraphim StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:46:00 - [17] Edited by: Khandara Seraphim on 25/07/2008 18:47:08 Originally by: Dizeezer Velar Originally by: Khandara Seraphim I want to know why being scrambled at 7.5km is "the end" for blaster boats. I would assume this is sufficiently close that you can either be in range or web/scram them yourself to get closer. Quite often before you are in this range, the target will have had a chance to warp off. In my experience a 24km disruptor has been pretty essential to a blaster ship unless you only fly in larger groups. If you fly in large gangs it wouldn't be an issue. so.. fit a 24km disruptor and web? you can still mwd at somebody until you get within 7.5km assuming they have a scram, and if they dont then it's the same as it's always been for blasterboats. It's true they wont be as slow webbed but any Blaster ship should be able to mwd over if you're in web range.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:46:00 - [18] Originally by: TheG2 Go up against a well fit Kronos and tell me that again. My corp mate utterly destroys ships with it :\| I would but they're all busy with missions. It'd be rude to interrupt :(
Eran Laude Gallente Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:47:00 - [19] With a little more time now to evaluate it, I don't see it as a nerf for blasterboats as a whole, but I do see it as a nerf for solo-PvPing in a blasterboat. The only way you will be able to replicate anything like the speed loss of a single TII or named web now is with dual webs, so perhaps it will encourage blasterboat pilots, particularly Blasterthron and Hyperion captains, to work with small ship pilots a bit more. A secret part of me hopes that they re-evaluate it's effect to blasterboats before the final nano-nerf is rolled out, though.
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:49:00 - [20] I am a blast boat pilot with a CS V Astarte. I thought of this as a nerf but it truly is not. The second you hit the target with a warp scramble they cannot MWD and you can follow that up with a 60% web. 60% of their normal speed is going to be pretty damn slow. Sarge
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:49:00 - [21] I agree that they should have issues tracking smaller things, the current situation of webrange fighting is silly. I love the changes, particularly with AFs now being boosted to frigate-like speeds. Originally by: TheG2 Although no idea where you're getting the Hurricane reference though. Originally by: TheG2 Originally by: Cpt Branko Said vagabond from upper example will suffer 239 DPS when fired on by my cane (in fact more if I'm piloting it, but I'm taking all L5 skills in consideration) at 15km, 200 dps at 22.5km and 180-ish at 24km (due to shooting in deep falloff; the Vagabond will lose a huge part of DPS in the same way due to it fitting no falloff rigs but going with 2 polycarbons). There, short lesson in tracking done. Can we drop the stupid 'can't hit nano-hacs with turrets' argument? No, you can't hit with medium blasters or battleship turrets, big suprise. Seriously, any nano pilot that gets within the 5-10km required to be hit accurately by your blasters is a fool. Locked thread, remember? No need to bring it all up again, but I was talking about a Hurricane in the example. It looks like you mistook me for a nano-whiner. I was simply pointing out how turret tracking of medium turrets was in no way broken. It's the lack of range screwing them in most cases (like, medium-sized blasterboats). Arguably, using D180s and triple falloff rigs which I in fact use is using a setup best geared for it, but if that's 'cheating', well, a 11.9km/s Vagabond is too. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
TheG2 Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:52:00 - [22] Originally by: Cpt Branko I agree that they should have issues tracking smaller things, the current situation of webrange fighting is silly. I love the changes, particularly with AFs now being boosted to frigate-like speeds. Originally by: TheG2 Although no idea where you're getting the Hurricane reference though. Locked thread, remember? No need to bring it all up again, but I was talking about a Hurricane in the example. It looks like you mistook me for a nano-whiner. I was simply pointing out how turret tracking of medium turrets was in no way broken. It's the lack of range screwing them in most cases (like, medium-sized blasterboats). Arguably, using D180s and triple falloff rigs which I in fact use is using a setup best geared for it, but if that's 'cheating', well, a 11.9km/s Vagabond is too. Gotcha, sorry, I missed that you were talking about a hurricane in that thread :)
Dizeezer Velar Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:53:00 - [23] Basically, its a big nerf to solo blasterthron pilots. You'll see solo blasterthron pilots switch to hyperions because of their extra mids. For those who don't solo with blasterships, but still fly them in gangs, the web nerf won't really matter. [/url]
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:55:00 - [24] Negative It is a boost. Nobody is going to fit a MWD for the fear of it being switched off. Now the CS pilot will be able to downgrade the MWD to a AB and have extra room (PG/CPU). Max damage baby
Dizeezer Velar Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees	Posted - 2008.07.25 19:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Sgt Napalm Negative It is a boost. Nobody is going to fit a MWD for the fear of it being switched off. Now the CS pilot will be able to downgrade the MWD to a AB and have extra room (PG/CPU). Max damage baby lol.... have fun never getting in optimal range if you put an AB on a mega or astarte for that matter. [/url]
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved	Posted - 2008.07.25 19:06:00 - [26] Any speed > Not moving
Sid Zero	Posted - 2008.07.25 19:10:00 - [27] Looking forward to testing Deimos on monday, specifically want to test a nano-AB fit
whisk The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.25 19:13:00 - [28] Originally by: Sgt Napalm I am a blast boat pilot with a CS V Astarte. I thought of this as a nerf but it truly is not. The second you hit the target with a warp scramble they cannot MWD and you can follow that up with a 60% web. 60% of their normal speed is going to be pretty damn slow. Sarge how many meds do you have again?
TheG2 Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.07.25 19:24:00 - [29] Originally by: Trespasser Edited by: Trespasser on 25/07/2008 19:22:15 I like everything about the proposed nerf but this MWD cut off shit, its kind of pointless IMHO because your going to nerf speed down to a level that its balanced. That said i think that scramblers haveing an affect on MWD's is a bit ******ed For many reasons and if this change does go into effect i bet we will see more Afterburners being used then microwarp drives P.s say good by to the blasterthron You didn't even read the thread did you.
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:08:00 - [30] Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 25/07/2008 20:10:30 I'm not too concerned about scramblers turning off my MWD, as at webbing range I'd often turn it off anyway. Problem as I see it is blaster tracking - its not THAT good! Especially if intys and stuff use more ABs and cant be webbed more than 50%. The DPS lost due to tracking on say a 50% webbed AB inty from a Deimos compared to say the DPS from a Cerberus on that same webbed inty is something worth testing on Monday. My guess is the poorer webbing / tracking will result in a turret nerf especially for blaster ships compared to missiles in most situations. But it needs testing.

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