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Akiama Gallente Shugotenshi Genkuro	Posted - 2008.07.27 16:42:00 - [1] 1. Better Distribution - The arcs of rocks are just silly looking. Space the rocks out and make them a real asteroid belt. Well... ok, not really since in a real belt, the asteroids can be hundreds of miles apart. Just distribute them a little more randomly and on a slight curve that matches the gravity plane of either the sun or the nearest planet. Hell, have a belt that goes all the way around a planet. That would be awesome looking and fun to navigate while prospecting. 2. Scannable Asteroid Belts - Make the belts less static. Use simple scanning and probes to find asteroid belts and then force miners to wander through the belt with a survey scanner (hi slot laser spectrometer/magnometer) that you "shoot" at asteroids to vaporize a portion for analysis. Prospecting basically. Make the belts HUGE to provide nooks and crannies for players to search. 3. NPC Pirate Outposts - This goes hand in hand with options 1 & 2. Stick some npc pirate bases in the belts. Bases that don't show up on the overview until you scan it out or come within visual range of it. And put pirates on roving patrols through the belts. Instead of having them respawn in the same spot and then attack whomever is in range. 4. Random Events - Put some gas pockets in the asteroids that have a chance to damage the mining ship when the asteroid blows up. Or maybe a trace amount of more valuable minerals are discovered deep in an asteroid. You could also add some hi-speed asteroids that act like "missiles" when they hit the mining ship. Maybe debris from one of the exploding asteroids. 5. Collision - Make running into an asteroid a real danger instead of the rubber band super bouncy ball crap it is now. Just apply some damage based on speed and mass to the mining ship and then stop them dead in the water. With the align to button, it'll make it easier to "back off" from a collision. _______________________________________________________________ "Nice work dumbass." "I've given some thought to moving off the edge. Not an ideal location...maybe a place in the middle."
Joker Deville	Posted - 2008.07.27 17:41:00 - [2] Edited by: Joker Deville on 27/07/2008 17:40:56 No
MirandaLM Standard Mining Co.	Posted - 2008.07.27 18:04:00 - [3] Edited by: MirandaLM on 27/07/2008 18:05:48 Edited by: MirandaLM on 27/07/2008 18:04:35 Edited by: MirandaLM on 27/07/2008 18:04:26 Originally by: Joker Deville Edited by: Joker Deville on 27/07/2008 17:40:56 No Why not? I would like to see some of these ideas implemented. Besides making mining a profession requiring skill, it would probably cut down on macro miners too.
Akiama Gallente Shugotenshi Genkuro	Posted - 2008.07.27 18:12:00 - [4] Miranda, they said no because then they wouldn't be able to afk-mine/macro-mine. They might actually have to... gasp ...play the game the way it should be played. _______________________________________________________________ "Nice work dumbass." "I've given some thought to moving off the edge. Not an ideal location...maybe a place in the middle."
Akiama Gallente Shugotenshi Genkuro	Posted - 2008.07.27 18:15:00 - [5] As an addendum, asteroids shouldn't show up on the overview either, until they've been surveyed. This would represent your character/ship taking measurements, readings, and scan results and then plugging them in to your nagivational database. Obviously the location of rare asteroids with valuable ores would be something for you to guard or sell the location of for a profit.
shady trader	Posted - 2008.07.27 18:42:00 - [6] CCP already plan to change astroid belts. The current static belts will be removed and replaced with explorable ones. This will use the mission authoring system to control were they spawn. player will have to scan them out. There was a dev blog a while back. Each ship will have a basic scanner built in to find the common ores like Veld. You will need to fit a better one for rare ores. From that was said the types of ore will not change much (with the possible except of finding small quanities of slighlt more valuable ore once in a blue moon. As for A high slot survey scanner, survey scanner's already exist and are mid slot. CCP will not make it to hard to mine as this impacts the whole of eve. If mineral prices to high then the cost of PVP as the cost fo losses goies up. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congrated by carebears for the actions.
Blastage	Posted - 2008.07.27 20:15:00 - [7] Originally by: shady trader CCP already plan to change astroid belts. The current static belts will be removed and replaced with explorable ones. This will use the mission authoring system to control were they spawn. player will have to scan them out. There was a dev blog a while back. Each ship will have a basic scanner built in to find the common ores like Veld. You will need to fit a better one for rare ores. From that was said the types of ore will not change much (with the possible except of finding small quanities of slighlt more valuable ore once in a blue moon. As for A high slot survey scanner, survey scanner's already exist and are mid slot. CCP will not make it to hard to mine as this impacts the whole of eve. If mineral prices to high then the cost of PVP as the cost fo losses goies up. Got anything to back that up like a link to a CCP topic, Hearsay is not so good around here.
Harry Caray	Posted - 2008.07.27 20:52:00 - [8] Originally by: Blastage Originally by: shady trader CCP already plan to change astroid belts. The current static belts will be removed and replaced with explorable ones. This will use the mission authoring system to control were they spawn. player will have to scan them out. There was a dev blog a while back. Each ship will have a basic scanner built in to find the common ores like Veld. You will need to fit a better one for rare ores. From that was said the types of ore will not change much (with the possible except of finding small quanities of slighlt more valuable ore once in a blue moon. As for A high slot survey scanner, survey scanner's already exist and are mid slot. CCP will not make it to hard to mine as this impacts the whole of eve. If mineral prices to high then the cost of PVP as the cost fo losses goies up. Got anything to back that up like a link to a CCP topic, Hearsay is not so good around here. he is not lying, i was told this earlier this year and there was a discussion/link to the dev blog. from what i gather it has been around for quite some time in the proposal/discussion stage but that is about it. older players have commented that this has come up several times in the past couple years but usually ends up in endless arguments and flames etc. i am not against changes to the mining system that make it much harder or impossible for afk/macro miners and also give us miners more skills and specilization to strive towards for a much better profit potential. it may also force more team/gang work in all areas of space but that could be debatable. a better balance between mining ore and refining mission loot would be nice too--and im sure to get flamed for this but the asteroid respawns are a bit unrealistic. it may be required for the total economy but entire belts of 80+ rocks reappearing every week seems to defy natural laws--what the hell is in space forming these rocks all the time... :) dunno, im a miner that doesnt mind more effort and skills to get at the rocks as long as its worth the effort vs just refining mission loot etc.
Robert Rosenberg Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.07.27 21:15:00 - [9] Mining is not for PVP'rs, just as PVP is not for Miners. Making mining more like PVP is just as absurd as doing it the other way around, and only an IDIOT would advocate either. Mining is perfect how it is (with the exciting part being the market PVP, just as the mission runners get to have exciting pewpew PVP)
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.27 21:41:00 - [10] OP has never used a mining barge and has no idea on what is mining in EVE. So he is making suggestion based on his joystick happy stile of play (and there is no joystick in EVE). Thank you for the time used up to make your suggestions, but NO.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.27 21:48:00 - [11] Originally by: Harry Caray Originally by: Blastage Originally by: shady trader CCP already plan to change astroid belts. The current static belts will be removed and replaced with explorable ones. This will use the mission authoring system to control were they spawn. player will have to scan them out. There was a dev blog a while back. Each ship will have a basic scanner built in to find the common ores like Veld. You will need to fit a better one for rare ores. From that was said the types of ore will not change much (with the possible except of finding small quanities of slighlt more valuable ore once in a blue moon. As for A high slot survey scanner, survey scanner's already exist and are mid slot. CCP will not make it to hard to mine as this impacts the whole of eve. If mineral prices to high then the cost of PVP as the cost fo losses goies up. Got anything to back that up like a link to a CCP topic, Hearsay is not so good around here. he is not lying, i was told this earlier this year and there was a discussion/link to the dev blog. from what i gather it has been around for quite some time in the proposal/discussion stage but that is about it. older players have commented that this has come up several times in the past couple years but usually ends up in endless arguments and flames etc. He has embellished it a lot. What the Dev have stated (last time more than a year ago) is that they want to move the static belts to a dynamic system (probably like the search for encounter sites) but something that can be found easily by new players. All the rest is pure player speculation/discussion on the Dev idea. Non static belts have been on the drawing board for more than 3 years, we will probably not see them till a big industrial patch is released. If and when that happens we will probably see the removal of T1 drops from NPC, non static belts, the Orca and a lot of other stuff.
Akiama Gallente Shugotenshi Genkuro	Posted - 2008.07.28 00:15:00 - [12] Originally by: Venkul Mul OP has never used a mining barge and has no idea on what is mining in EVE. So he is making suggestion based on his joystick happy stile of play (and there is no joystick in EVE). Thank you for the time used up to make your suggestions, but NO. You == Fail. Just because I don't like mining doesn't mean I haven't done it. I actually have an alt on a second account that is currently training gallente industrials to 5 and has mining barge capability already. It's pretty damn ****ing boring. My suggestions would make it far more interesting.
Hie Loe Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.07.28 03:31:00 - [13] The whole PVE side of this game needs work. It is all so predictable... There needs to be more randomness all the way through, in the ore types, the rat strength and faction, the drops, you name it. I hope this oft referenced "Industrial Patch" addresses some of these issues. HL I want a better signature.
Vigilant Gallente Vigilant's Vigilante's	Posted - 2008.07.28 04:01:00 - [14] Having to scan down a belt every time you mine would be PITA, sorry. Then finding the belt, and see all that is left is Veld or some crap would just tick people off. Or a field full of hulks If CCP decides to randomize the belts, they better be repopulating the belts daily, instead of twice of week. Maybe they could gate them off like missions, but that would be kinda of silly also. Yes, it may help with the "macro/farmer" issue, which I totally support, but CCP could also just jump around the ice belts and open their eyes and do that.
Legendary Jackal	Posted - 2008.07.28 07:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Blastage Originally by: shady trader CCP already plan to change astroid belts. The current static belts will be removed and replaced with explorable ones. This will use the mission authoring system to control were they spawn. player will have to scan them out. There was a dev blog a while back. Each ship will have a basic scanner built in to find the common ores like Veld. You will need to fit a better one for rare ores. From that was said the types of ore will not change much (with the possible except of finding small quanities of slighlt more valuable ore once in a blue moon. As for A high slot survey scanner, survey scanner's already exist and are mid slot. CCP will not make it to hard to mine as this impacts the whole of eve. If mineral prices to high then the cost of PVP as the cost fo losses goies up. Got anything to back that up like a link to a CCP topic, Hearsay is not so good around here. Its stated on the drawing board for some while
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.28 08:32:00 - [16] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 28/07/2008 08:33:19 Originally by: Akiama Originally by: Venkul Mul OP has never used a mining barge and has no idea on what is mining in EVE. So he is making suggestion based on his joystick happy stile of play (and there is no joystick in EVE). Thank you for the time used up to make your suggestions, but NO. You == Fail. Just because I don't like mining doesn't mean I haven't done it. I actually have an alt on a second account that is currently training gallente industrials to 5 and has mining barge capability already. It's pretty damn ****ing boring. My suggestions would make it far more interesting. You don't like mining. So to make it better you want miners to slowboat in a barge for 100 km or so to the next asteroid, to scan it to see if it has minerals. Very nice for someone wanting to kill the barge, very bad for the miner. Ah, and you want the mining barges pre tenderized by the collision with asteroids, as the thank is so awesome that a frigate can't one volley them.
Commander Lightning	Posted - 2008.07.28 15:49:00 - [17] As a simple answer Yes to all 5 :) The Human Race has never learned from its past. Humans Killing Humans, thats the way it is, and shall be as long as the Human Race continues. EvE is no exception. //Unknown
Akiama Gallente Shugotenshi Genkuro	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:28:00 - [18] Originally by: Venkul Mul You don't like mining. So to make it better you want miners to slowboat in a barge for 100 km or so to the next asteroid, to scan it to see if it has minerals. No, that's not what I said. In fact, I specifically said asteroids should not be spaced hundreds or thousands of kilometers apart like they are in real life. I stated that the asteroids should be spread out more intelligently. The current spread of asteroids in the ridiculous curve with very little space between them just looks stupid. When you go into a 'roid filed to mine, you should be surrounded by them and be forced to pay attention to where you're piloting. Hell, that should be the case for ratting in 0.0 belts as well. You should be surrounded by asteroids that block line of fire and make combat and mining more interesting. Quote: Very nice for someone wanting to kill the barge, very bad for the miner. Ah, and you want the mining barges pre tenderized by the collision with asteroids, as the thank is so awesome that a frigate can't one volley them. So up the armor/shields on the barges to deal with the new threat to them. People can mine just the outer fringes of the belt or explore it and find the hidden pockets of more valuable ore, but at a higher risk. That's Eve. _______________________________________________________________ "Nice work dumbass." "I've given some thought to moving off the edge. Not an ideal location...maybe a place in the middle."
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:11:00 - [19] I approve in principle of mining being a more dynamic process, and having to search out the rarer ores. However, there are issues here that need addressing. At present, if you are in a system of low enough sec rating that it should have a particular ore then you will find it. Having to look for the ore has good and bad points IMHO. Bad (for everyone except dedicated miners); minerals above trit will become more expensive, as ships will have to be specially fitted to find such ores. Good; PvP addicts and pirates will have to fit out their ships accordingly, or probe out the mining ships; in any event, it will no longer be a simple matter of warping into a belt and starting the fireworks. There is another point here; where is the upgraded scanner going to fit? Quite a lot of people have finely-tuned setups for their mining ships, designed to tank rats (or other PCs) for a little while while continuing to mine. If the scanner upgrade is a module, which type of slot is it going to be in? Or is it going to be more like a rig slot? Or is there going to be another type of slot for your ship specifically for scanner upgrades? Or is your scanner simply going to work better for mining if you have mining-relevant skills? I would favour the last, personally - it means that to get the good stuff you have to specialise. One more point: At present, the rocks you can find are determined entirely by security status of the system they are in. A question arises; where do the empires find the high-end minerals for their own use? My answer to this; there are in fact high-end rocks in high-sec systems. However, they are not common knowledge, and the faction navies will take a dim view of freelancers stealing their valuable rocks. So; if you are looking for ore of more value than the security level of the system will support, you will find it - but you won't be able to mine it for long without attracting the attention of the local Navy. The more valuable the rocks, the more quickly they turn up, and the more force they turn up with. Of course, once they turn up, you can shoot them and keep mining, but this will mess up your reputation with the local government. Taking this to the extreme, you end up with ninja mining in high-security systems. Arkanor in 1.0? Fine - but you might get one cycle of your lasers done if you're lucky. And then half the local fleet turns up. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
Akiama Gallente Shugotenshi Genkuro	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:39:00 - [20] 6. Prospecting as a Profession - The stellar factions could sell prospecting licenses that allows a pilot to prospect for ores, mark their location, and then sell the location to a mining corporation or individual. There could even be aggression timers put on people who mine a claimed asteroid. Give the owner a chance to blow some ore thief out of the water. =) Quote: At present, if you are in a system of low enough sec rating that it should have a particular ore then you will find it. Having to look for the ore has good and bad points IMHO. Bad (for everyone except dedicated miners); minerals above trit will become more expensive, as ships will have to be specially fitted to find such ores. Good; PvP addicts and pirates will have to fit out their ships accordingly, or probe out the mining ships; in any event, it will no longer be a simple matter of warping into a belt and starting the fireworks. I don't see a problem with prices rising a bit. Not a problem at all. It would make mining profits more comparable to mission running, and less boring. Quote: There is another point here; where is the upgraded scanner going to fit? Quite a lot of people have finely-tuned setups for their mining ships, designed to tank rats (or other PCs) for a little while while continuing to mine. If the scanner upgrade is a module, which type of slot is it going to be in? Or is it going to be more like a rig slot? Or is there going to be another type of slot for your ship specifically for scanner upgrades? Or is your scanner simply going to work better for mining if you have mining-relevant skills? I would favour the last, personally - it means that to get the good stuff you have to specialise. Just create a new ship type, specialized for prospecting. Quote: One more point: At present, the rocks you can find are determined entirely by security status of the system they are in. A question arises; where do the empires find the high-end minerals for their own use? My answer to this; there are in fact high-end rocks in high-sec systems. However, they are not common knowledge, and the faction navies will take a dim view of freelancers stealing their valuable rocks. So; if you are looking for ore of more value than the security level of the system will support, you will find it - but you won't be able to mine it for long without attracting the attention of the local Navy. The more valuable the rocks, the more quickly they turn up, and the more force they turn up with. Of course, once they turn up, you can shoot them and keep mining, but this will mess up your reputation with the local government. Taking this to the extreme, you end up with ninja mining in high-security systems. Arkanor in 1.0? Fine - but you might get one cycle of your lasers done if you're lucky. And then half the local fleet turns up. Sounds fun. ^_^
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:41:00 - [21] The only idea I like is changing the layout and size of asteroid belts. Making the belts enormous, spanning hundreds of kilometers would be fantastic, it would give the space in Eve an whole new perspective. I love the idea of making the belts in a system "explorable" and instead of having a lot of belts in a system, maybe have a few enormous ones. I think it would be really cool seeing different fleets in different parts of the belt all mining. The only problem with having huge belts is it would probably be rough on system resources, having to load that entire grid, but maybe with less belts in a system, it might work. Belt dynamics, better ores in the middle. As mentioned above, eliminating the traditional semi-circle layout is a must, and instead, bring the random layout of missions to the belts. Make the asteroids closer together towards the middle, thus making making barges have to mine the out edges first before getting to the better ore in the middle. This might increase use of smaller mining vessels that could navigate the dense interior of an asteroid belt. There could also be more gravimetric sites in a system, with better quality ores, so they are still available should you really need it. With enormous belts, it could take days to mine a chunk of the belt away. I think this could bring a unique and diverse environmental change to Eve that would make things more interesting.
Gridwalker Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.28 19:26:00 - [22] Originally by: Blastage Got anything to back that up like a link to a CCP topic, Hearsay is not so good around here. The forums are 99% heresay, and the remaining posts are just trolls and spam. http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=458 -Grid
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.28 19:50:00 - [23] Originally by: Akiama Originally by: Venkul Mul You don't like mining. So to make it better you want miners to slowboat in a barge for 100 km or so to the next asteroid, to scan it to see if it has minerals. No, that's not what I said. When you go into a 'roid filed to mine, you should be surrounded by them and be forced to pay attention to where you're piloting. Hell, that should be the case for ratting in 0.0 belts as well. You should be surrounded by asteroids that block line of fire and make combat and mining more interesting. Quote: Originally by: Akiama 1. Better Distribution - The arcs of rocks are just silly looking. Space the rocks out and make them a real asteroid belt. Well... ok, not really since in a real belt, the asteroids can be hundreds of miles apart. Just distribute them a little more randomly and on a slight curve that matches the gravity plane of either the sun or the nearest planet. Hell, have a belt that goes all the way around a planet. That would be awesome looking and fun to navigate while prospecting. 2. Scannable Asteroid Belts - Make the belts less static. Use simple scanning and probes to find asteroid belts and then force miners to wander through the belt with a survey scanner (hi slot laser spectrometer/magnometer) that you "shoot" at asteroids to vaporize a portion for analysis. Prospecting basically. Make the belts HUGE to provide nooks and crannies for players to search. Care to repeat that wasn't what you said? A real asteroid belt would be better, each asteroid would be thousand of km further apart and could be found only scanning and then warped to, you just want a belt that will force people to slowboat around.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.28 19:56:00 - [24] Originally by: Akiama No, that's not what I said. Quote: Very nice for someone wanting to kill the barge, very bad for the miner. Ah, and you want the mining barges pre tenderized by the collision with asteroids, as the thank is so awesome that a frigate can't one volley them. So up the armor/shields on the barges to deal with the new threat to them. People can mine just the outer fringes of the belt or explore it and find the hidden pockets of more valuable ore, but at a higher risk. That's Eve. Originally by: Akiama 4. Random Events - Put some gas pockets in the asteroids that have a chance to damage the mining ship when the asteroid blows up. Or maybe a trace amount of more valuable minerals are discovered deep in an asteroid. You could also add some hi-speed asteroids that act like "missiles" when they hit the mining ship. Maybe debris from one of the exploding asteroids. 5. Collision - Make running into an asteroid a real danger instead of the rubber band super bouncy ball crap it is now. Just apply some damage based on speed and mass to the mining ship and then stop them dead in the water. With the align to button, it'll make it easier to "back off" from a collision. And again, here we are: "make running into an asteroid a real danger" don't seem the equivalent of give "barges a armor/shield to deal whit the new threas", quite the opposite really. And you want a twitch game, something that EVE isn't. So essentially you want to make mining a "run the asteroid field like Hank Solo" game. If that is what you want go an make your game. Don't try to change EVE.
Vigilant Gallente Vigilant's Vigilante's	Posted - 2008.07.28 20:56:00 - [25] Can I just have a ship that tanks and looks cool too. I mean really I think most miners would happy with that. Ohh yeah, almost forgot, pulls what a Covy does in mining yield. GOTTA have some balance !
Akiama Gallente Shugotenshi Genkuro	Posted - 2008.07.28 20:56:00 - [26] Originally by: Venkul Mul Care to repeat that wasn't what you said? A real asteroid belt would be better, each asteroid would be thousand of km further apart and could be found only scanning and then warped to, you just want a belt that will force people to slowboat around. A real asteroid belt would be even more boring. Your idea sucks. Mine is cool and more interesting because you have to navigate through a huge field of varying sizes of asteroids. The key here is to make asteroids last longer, so once you find that 'roid you're looking for, you can bookmark the location and return to it until the 'roid is mined out. And it's not so much a twitch based navigation, but careful thought and analysis of the space between various asteroids and different corridors you can take to find your way through.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.28 21:00:00 - [27] Originally by: Akiama Originally by: Venkul Mul Care to repeat that wasn't what you said? A real asteroid belt would be better, each asteroid would be thousand of km further apart and could be found only scanning and then warped to, you just want a belt that will force people to slowboat around. A real asteroid belt would be even more boring. Your idea sucks. Mine is cool and more interesting because you have to navigate through a huge field of varying sizes of asteroids. The key here is to make asteroids last longer, so once you find that 'roid you're looking for, you can bookmark the location and return to it until the 'roid is mined out. And it's not so much a twitch based navigation, but careful thought and analysis of the space between various asteroids and different corridors you can take to find your way through. It is not my idea, it is only something better of your "dodge useless asteroids, scan them to find the one minable rock every 50 km ".
Vigilant Gallente Vigilant's Vigilante's	Posted - 2008.07.28 21:03:00 - [28] Nah die hard miners start one end kill belts. No matter the shape, same thing would happen.
Akiama Gallente Shugotenshi Genkuro	Posted - 2008.07.28 21:04:00 - [29] Oh yeah, because scanning down one rock or small belt is so visually impressive. _______________________________________________________________ "Nice work dumbass." "I've given some thought to moving off the edge. Not an ideal location...maybe a place in the middle."
Akiama Gallente Shugotenshi Genkuro	Posted - 2008.07.28 21:15:00 - [30] Originally by: Vigilant Nah die hard miners start one end kill belts. No matter the shape, same thing would happen. Nah, the belts would need to be seeded with worthless rock that holds no ore and is just there for the eye candy. _______________________________________________________________ "Nice work dumbass." "I've given some thought to moving off the edge. Not an ideal location...maybe a place in the middle."

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