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Fix The Pilgrim

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InSession Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:21:00 - [1] Yes, another thread about the Pilgrim, but obviously it still has yet to get enough love to get the buff it needs. With the current state of the nano nerf many people may arguably start using recons more in gangs in order to continue to use guerrilla warfare. Every race has their cloaking recon, and their combat recon. I want to focus on the cloaking recon though because this is the new guerrilla warfare tactic. The Falcon gets the same bonus as it's combat recon the Rook. The Arazu gets the same bonus as it's brother the Lachesis. And don't forget about the Rapier which has the same bonuses as the Huggin. Alright so what about the Pilgrim? Pilgrim - "Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level" Curse - " Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and 20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level" Come on, it's so simply why is this the case? It'd actually hurt nano's if the pilgrim was buffed, we'd so more Amarr neuting Vagabond's and Zealot's rendering them relatively useless. Why can't my races recon be like the rest of the recons?
Jenny' JoJo Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:25:00 - [2] tHE pILGRIM iS hAULER tHAT cAN wARP cLOAKED. iT iS vERY gOOD aT dOING bLOACKADE rUNNING Refresh to see next real life CCP Sig(25 total)
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:25:00 - [3] You might want to check your claims for accuracy first. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:26:00 - [4] That does seem kinda odd and gimpy - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
InSession Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:32:00 - [5] Originally by: Avon You might want to check your claims for accuracy first. What's not accurate? I double checked the bonuses for each combat recon v. cloaky recon for all races other than Amarr and they all have their specialty ability range bonus. Yet the Pilgrim does not. Why is this at all fair?
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:32:00 - [6] Best fix for the pilgrim; switch the amount bonus for a range bonus. Doesn't make it overpowered but at least useful.
justsometrader	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:32:00 - [7] Originally by: InSession Why can't my races recon be like the rest of the recons? Because you race has teh laz0ring gunz
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:36:00 - [8] Originally by: InSession Originally by: Avon You might want to check your claims for accuracy first. What's not accurate? I double checked the bonuses for each combat recon v. cloaky recon for all races other than Amarr and they all have their specialty ability range bonus. Yet the Pilgrim does not. Why is this at all fair? That isn't how you worded your OP, and I'm not psychic - I can only go by what you actually write. You implied that the force and combat recons for all the races other than Amarr shared the same bonuses, and that is untrue. No the Pilgrim does not get a range bonus for nos & neuts, but what bonus do you propose to reduce or remove to accomodate it? Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:39:00 - [9] I think the biggest issue with the pilgrim is that right now TD's have no effect against missiles. If the speed changes go through it will actually be better off. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:42:00 - [10] Originally by: Tarminic I think the biggest issue with the pilgrim is that right now TD's have no effect against missiles. If the speed changes go through it will actually be better off. The Pilgrim as it is now will be worth using again. \o/ Eve-Online: The Text Adventure

flashfreaking LFC Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:43:00 - [11] Originally by: Jenny' JoJo tHE pILGRIM iS hAULER tHAT cAN wARP cLOAKED. iT iS vERY gOOD aT dOING bLOACKADE rUNNING Is this a Jenny alt, or Jenny copycat? Or is the original owner back? Whatever it is, it's annoying Disallowed sig graphic. Send an e-mail to [email protected] when it meets the forum signature guidelines. ~Saint
InSession Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:52:00 - [12] Edited by: InSession on 29/07/2008 17:53:16 Originally by: Avon Originally by: InSession Originally by: Avon You might want to check your claims for accuracy first. What's not accurate? I double checked the bonuses for each combat recon v. cloaky recon for all races other than Amarr and they all have their specialty ability range bonus. Yet the Pilgrim does not. Why is this at all fair? That isn't how you worded your OP, and I'm not psychic - I can only go by what you actually write. You implied that the force and combat recons for all the races other than Amarr shared the same bonuses, and that is untrue. No the Pilgrim does not get a range bonus for nos & neuts, but what bonus do you propose to reduce or remove to accomodate it? I edited a spelling error, nothing else. Are you just talking about the cyno bonus? I don't see any differences in the aspects of the bonuses that I am addressing like webs/ECM/warp disruptor's. They are mirrored between the combat and force recon. The TD's are nice, but when about 70% of the ratters are Ravens or Drakes they really do no good. Giving us a range bonus and maybe not a amount bonus like someone noted is an interesting proposal. At least then it would be possible to use damps and a faction point to stay out of targeting range on a ratter. For anything else though I really see the Pilgrim as useless. It has to get way too close to be effective.
justsometrader	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:58:00 - [13] Originally by: flashfreaking Originally by: Jenny' JoJo tHE pILGRIM iS hAULER tHAT cAN wARP cLOAKED. iT iS vERY gOOD aT dOING bLOACKADE rUNNING Is this a Jenny alt, or Jenny copycat? Or is the original owner back? Whatever it is, it's annoying NO YOU
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:08:00 - [14] Originally by: Jenny' JoJo tHE pILGRIM iS hAULER tHAT cAN wARP cLOAKED. iT iS vERY gOOD aT dOING bLOACKADE rUNNING And you are an utter idiot that i personally cannot stand. Also you're copying all of the crap that was said on forums at some point about the pilgrim, so why don't you just stfu.
Aenis Veros Caldari Alphaflight	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:10:00 - [15] Make so all cloak-recons get an ability to use afterburners while cloaked. That should make the pilgrim a lot of fun.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:11:00 - [16] Edited by: Avon on 29/07/2008 18:13:45 Originally by: InSession I edited a spelling error, nothing else. Are you just talking about the cyno bonus? I don't see any differences in the aspects of the bonuses that I am addressing like webs/ECM/warp disruptor's. They are mirrored between the combat and force recon. Well, then you are making an unfair comparison, aren't you? All the other recons get a single bonus of that nature, and the combat recons get a damage bonus which the force version loses in favour of a cloaking bonus (needed for it's role) and a role specific bonus. The Curse, unlike other combat recons, gets a range bonus instead of a weapon damage bonus - and it is this bonus the Pilgrim drops, in line with all other recons. So, what do you want to do? Boost the Curse and combine the amount and range bonuses AND have a damage bonus, which can then be subsequently dropped? Or do you propose to switch the range or the amount bonus on the Curse for a weapon damage bonus? *Added: In summary, the Combat recons are meant to be better at combat than the force recons. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:11:00 - [17] Edited by: GallenteCitizen20080615 on 29/07/2008 18:13:54 ok curse fit a large neut on top and walla recon 5 means you got a 80KM or if op is right at recon 5 at 200% range that like 120 KM neut that deals 100% more destablising you pretty much empties the sun if you can get a point on it i have seen a battleclinic load out for it somewhere...look fessable Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
InSession Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:16:00 - [18] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 29/07/2008 18:13:45 Originally by: InSession I edited a spelling error, nothing else. Are you just talking about the cyno bonus? I don't see any differences in the aspects of the bonuses that I am addressing like webs/ECM/warp disruptor's. They are mirrored between the combat and force recon. Well, then you are making an unfair comparison, aren't you? All the other recons get a single bonus of that nature, and the combat recons get a damage bonus which the force version loses in favour of a cloaking bonus (needed for it's role) and a role specific bonus. The Curse, unlike other combat recons, gets a range bonus instead of a weapon damage bonus - and it is this bonus the Pilgrim drops, in line with all other recons. So, what do you want to do? Boost the Curse and combine the amount and range bonuses AND have a damage bonus, which can then be subsequently dropped? Or do you propose to switch the range or the amount bonus on the Curse for a weapon damage bonus? *Added: In summary, the Combat recons are meant to be better at combat than the force recons. Bah I totally over looked that I would much rather see a range bonus for the Pilgrim and not the amount bonus. All the other recons are about range when it comes to the cloaked version. The way the Pilgrim is setup it's like a cloak recon with the damage bonus and not the range bonus.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:17:00 - [19] Throwing out some of the facts from TQ: Minmatar Huginn -Minmatar Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire and 7.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level -Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 60% bonus to stasis webifier range and 5% bonus to Heavy Missile Launcher, heavy assault missile launcher and Assault Missile Launcher rate of fire per level Rapier -Minmatar Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire and 7.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level -Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 60% bonus to stasis webifier range and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level -Role Bonus: 80% reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration. Gallente Lachesis - Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness per level - Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to warp disruptor range and 5% bonus to Heavy Missile Launcher and Assault Missile Launcher rate of fire per level Arazu - Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness per level - Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to warp disruptor range and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level - Role Bonus: 80% reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration. Caldari Rook - Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in ECM Target Jammer capacitor use and 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range per level - Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level and 5% bonus to heavy and light missile kinetic damage. Falcon - Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in ECM Target Jammer capacitor use and 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range per level - Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level - Role Bonus: 80% reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration. Amarr Curse - Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level. - Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and 20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level Pilgrim - Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level. - Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level - Role Bonus: 80% reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration. Genesis Project
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:19:00 - [20] The op is correct. The Amarr Pilgrim is the only Force Recon Ship that doesn't have the same EW boost as it's Combat Recon counterpart. Genesis Project

GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:20:00 - [21] Edited by: GallenteCitizen20080615 on 29/07/2008 18:21:03 http://www.battleclinic.com/forum/index.php/topic,21491.msg103749.html#msg103749 curse 1200 cap drain at 75KM Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:24:00 - [22] And another discrepancy is that the Curse is the only Combat Recon cruiser with two boosts to it's EW, and no bonus to it's medium energy turret, which is ostensibly its primary weapon. Genesis Project
Jenny' JoJo Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:27:00 - [23] Originally by: Ruze And another discrepancy is that the Curse is the only Combat Recon cruiser with two boosts to it's EW, and no bonus to it's medium energy turret, which is ostensibly its primary weapon. aNOTHER dISCREPANCY iS tHAT tHE cURSE hAS nO tURRET sLOTS fOR hAVING tHIS tURRET bONUS yOU sAY Refresh to see next real life CCP Sig(25 total)
Ringo Jeicha Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:30:00 - [24] Guess whats next on the nerf list --- Braaaiiinnnsssssssssss
GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:30:00 - [25] oMG gO aWAY bEFORE lARGE sPORKS aTTACK yOU iN yOUR sLEEP Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:31:00 - [26] Originally by: Jenny' JoJo Originally by: Ruze And another discrepancy is that the Curse is the only Combat Recon cruiser with two boosts to it's EW, and no bonus to it's medium energy turret, which is ostensibly its primary weapon. aNOTHER dISCREPANCY iS tHAT tHE cURSE hAS nO tURRET sLOTS fOR hAVING tHIS tURRET bONUS yOU sAY Hehehe ... it actually has two turret slots, but I guess the point you were TRYING to make was that having a bonus to medium energy turret slots, when the more effective primary weapon on the Curse would be missiles, is valid. To recap, 'My bad!' Genesis Project
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:33:00 - [27] Originally by: InSession I would much rather see a range bonus for the Pilgrim and not the amount bonus. All the other recons are about range when it comes to the cloaked version. The way the Pilgrim is setup it's like a cloak recon with the damage bonus and not the range bonus. I'd much rather keep the amount bonus. Sneak up, uncloak, tackle, drain, drone, tank ... pop cyno. Win. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:08:00 - [28] You should log on and test the pilgrim on SISI now - its an entirely different ship altogether. In fact Id almost go as far to say that its 'quite good'. C. Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:09:00 - [29] Originally by: Aenis Veros Make so all cloak-recons get an ability to use afterburners while cloaked. That should make the pilgrim a lot of fun. Dear god yes, that would be wonderful. -- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:20:00 - [30] Originally by: Avon No the Pilgrim does not get a range bonus for nos & neuts, but what bonus do you propose to reduce or remove to accomodate it? I for one would glady lose the TD bonus for a range bonus to nos & nuet on the Pilgrim. No cap and they can't fire thier guns so no need to use a TD and missiles are not effected by TD anyways so to me it would be a perfect tradeoff. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan



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