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DNSBLACK
Gallente
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2008.07.29 18:24:00 -
[1]
Until there is a thread wich is dedicated to this subject a new post is best way to get heard sorry
1. Faction warfare has introduced a bunch of new players to PVP and they are finding out that there are very skilled players who have spent the money to tank using speed for the first time in there eve lives. This has created a bunch of frustrations for noobs who canÆt fight back. Here is a small list of how to kill a nano ship. Most 0.0 players have learned to fight and kill nano players.
A. Smart BOMBS (CanÆt use in empire)
B. Bombs (CanÆt use in empire)
C. Heavy NUETS
D. Destroyers
E. Remote sensor boosting Battleships/ Rapier
F. Counter Nano ships
G. Sensor damps/ WEBS
H. Tactics
I. Asteroids
J. Jump Gate ( And I am not talking about jumping)
K. Stations ( And I am not talking about docking )
The thing is it takes tactics and a desire to think about how to kill them for you to be successful.
2. To think the nano ship is the end all god of the PVP is just flat out wrong. I would even go as far to say that people doing the most nano bashing have never flown a nano ship in combat. They donÆt realize the fear a nano pilot faces and the large number of ships/tactics that can wreck their day. You have to manually fly it 95% of the time if you click orbit you are most likely going to die. Most of the ships they fly and the implants they are using cost as much as a Fitted Cap ship in this game. Why penalize them they have put the time and skill into tanking this way and if they are willing to spend the isk to go that fats so be it. If you kill them it hurts bad take my word for it my 17 KM MAL got killed by a well trained tranis hull Tanking and Destroyer pilot
3. Now I can see a number of solutions. Granted Iam only concerned for my interceptor pilots who need to go fast for tackle purposes and scouting. If you allow every tom **** and Harry the ability to hit a ceptor they will disappear from the game along with tackling frigs and electronic attack frigs. You can shield or armor tank small ships and if you drop there ability to go below 10 k then you have taken away there ability to tank. Allow the current game mechanics to exist for those ships only. This way the market for all the gear will remain stable. Also you could limit the nano ships to 0.0 only. Just nerf the nanos for the faction warfare noobs who can compete. If you are a 0.0 player you canÆt be happy with this nerf. To be honest I am happy with the way the game is being played right now. As an FC I have to have my fast tacklers who can hold a target down during a fight and survive. If you take that away then do us a favor just get rid of any ship frig size or lower so we donÆt waste our time on them anymore.
4. Now if you make it so ships whoÆs only defense is speed easier to kill with out effort or tactics on the opponents part then hell lets take away hardeners and shield mods cause it is not fair that he can out tank me. And the nuets and jammers need to go because how can CCP expect me to fight if I cant lock or I have no cap left. The point is the game is very balanced right now and any change in a ships tanking ability would create a downward spiral of nerfs that will lead to this game being be over nerfed. I honestly believe that you can combat any style of play with tactics.
In conclusion I think CCP has attacked an issue that was created by faction warfare. Most 0.0 alliance and residents have learned how to fight the nano gangs and really dont want any changes to the game as it stands now. If you live in 0.0 and dont know how to beat a nano gang or a nano solo ceptor then you should not be in 0.0. Start training and work on skills to fight back cause when you do beat one you can laugh knowing the amount of isk that they just lost. Please donÆt change the game anymore fix the LAG.
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Green Halo
Vigilante inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.29 18:27:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Green Halo on 29/07/2008 18:28:11
Agreed, and don't go nerfin' mah webz 
Oh and hey DNS
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GallenteCitizen20080615
Gallente
Federation War News
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Posted - 2008.07.29 18:28:00 -
[3]
we dont need a dedicated post... we dont need a post
if you want to post suggestion
the development forums is further down
and that a mighty wall of text there
 Originally by: CCP Wrangler
We are pleased to aim!
Or was that the other way around?
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Beltantis Torrence
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Posted - 2008.07.29 18:49:00 -
[4]
Originally by: DNSBLACK
Until there is a thread wich is dedicated to this subject a new post is best way to get heard sorry
1. Faction warfare has introduced a bunch of new players to PVP and they are finding out that there are very skilled players who have spent the money to tank using speed for the first time in there eve lives. This has created a bunch of frustrations for noobs who canÆt fight back. Here is a small list of how to kill a nano ship. Most 0.0 players have learned to fight and kill nano players.
A. Smart BOMBS (CanÆt use in empire)
B. Bombs (CanÆt use in empire)
C. Heavy NUETS
D. Destroyers
E. Remote sensor boosting Battleships/ Rapier
F. Counter Nano ships
G. Sensor damps/ WEBS
H. Tactics
I. Asteroids
J. Jump Gate ( And I am not talking about jumping)
K. Stations ( And I am not talking about docking )
A. Only works if they are dumb.
B. Heh.
C. Only works from a BS, doesn't kill anyone.
D. No.
E. Doesn't kill anyone.
F. Lame.
G. Webs need to reach them and slow them down fast enough, unlikely due to inertia. Sensor damps don't kill anyone.
H. Ok?
I. Have to be in an asteroid field, next to a blob of asteroids, dealing with a mentally ******ed nano pilot.
J. What nano pilot do you know that is stupid enough to fly into a gate?
K. What nano pilot do you know that is stupid enough to fly into a station?
The reason why nano's work so well against blobs is that there are very few counters to it and those counters that they do have are ineffective for sealing kills. Otherwise, blobs would have such counters, so nano'ing wouldn't be effective.
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GallenteCitizen20080615
Gallente
Federation War News
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Posted - 2008.07.29 18:53:00 -
[5]
a large neut on a curse does the trick
1200 cap neuted and drones to finish them off at 75KM range
i call that pretty pwned
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
We are pleased to aim!
Or was that the other way around?
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DNSBLACK
Gallente
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2008.07.29 19:34:00 -
[6]
1. Well in all honesty posting in here is read more thenposting in the dev section.
2. Hey Green how you been. We are in KBP this week if you like ot jion us for some fun. I will eve mail you some info for vent and killboards you will have a hoot.
3. All of the measure i have posted are very effective means in countering nanos. The problem everyone wants it easy. Iam sory eve is not about easy it is about challenges. The fact that a person is willing to train and spend isk to develope a speed tank should mean you should have to develope and train and spend the same amount of time to counter.
4. Honestly you guys are not to smart. A heavy nuet on any BS will make most of your nano guys run like hell and to get them in close use a sensor damp. Man learn how to play the game. Create gangs that work well together. The funny thing is all you have to do is unclaok a rapier or huggin and holy crap it is like some one schit in the pool.
Leave the game alone please. By the way if any of you think the nano is easy I challenge you to take the time to earn the isk and buy the stuff and go out and try it. It is hard as hell.
Black
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.29 19:40:00 -
[7]
The devs think it's a problem, they are changing it, get used to it.
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Upright
Amarr
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2008.07.29 19:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Beltantis Torrence
Originally by: DNSBLACK
Until there is a thread wich is dedicated to this subject a new post is best way to get heard sorry
1. Faction warfare has introduced a bunch of new players to PVP and they are finding out that there are very skilled players who have spent the money to tank using speed for the first time in there eve lives. This has created a bunch of frustrations for noobs who canÆt fight back. Here is a small list of how to kill a nano ship. Most 0.0 players have learned to fight and kill nano players.
A. Smart BOMBS (CanÆt use in empire)
B. Bombs (CanÆt use in empire)
C. Heavy NUETS
D. Destroyers
E. Remote sensor boosting Battleships/ Rapier
F. Counter Nano ships
G. Sensor damps/ WEBS
H. Tactics
I. Asteroids
J. Jump Gate ( And I am not talking about jumping)
K. Stations ( And I am not talking about docking )
A. Only works if they are dumb.
B. Heh.
C. Only works from a BS, doesn't kill anyone.
D. No.
E. Doesn't kill anyone.
F. Lame.
G. Webs need to reach them and slow them down fast enough, unlikely due to inertia. Sensor damps don't kill anyone.
H. Ok?
I. Have to be in an asteroid field, next to a blob of asteroids, dealing with a mentally ******ed nano pilot.
J. What nano pilot do you know that is stupid enough to fly into a gate?
K. What nano pilot do you know that is stupid enough to fly into a station?
The reason why nano's work so well against blobs is that there are very few counters to it and those counters that they do have are ineffective for sealing kills. Otherwise, blobs would have such counters, so nano'ing wouldn't be effective.
A:Just casue a guy has isk to afford polies, doesnt mean he aint stuiped
B:Bombs are meh only cause of price
C:Nuets work very well on the curse/pilgrim. There not BS's
D:Guess uve never seena thrasher pop a billion isk crow (LMAO)
E:Remote sensor boosting rapier WTFOWN ur ass. If u dont know that u fail.
F:Your lame
G:Sensor damps make nano's run. And ever heard of a faction web?
H:You will learn in time
I: Yes u need to be at a astroid belt. But it doesnt mean it still doesnt happen.
J:Look at A
K:Look at A
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DNSBLACK
Gallente
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2008.07.29 19:59:00 -
[9]
Well the devs think it is a problem cause noobs keep complaining. They want to make the game more noob friendly. What they need to do is allow for a seperation and not a nerf of things that are working.
1. Nerf the speed in .5 and higher leave .4 to .0 alone.
2. What the devs are also doing is making a peoples way of life tank. poly card, trit bars, snake implants not worth anything now.
3. Dont you realize that when the nerf bat starts there is no stopping it. havnt you seen what the nerf bat has done to other games in the past. making a game more noob friendly wrecks the game period.
Leave the game alone and enjoy it for what it is.
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.29 20:05:00 -
[10]
1)Nanos are in dire need of a nerf. Think of it this way: short of capital ships, how often do you see people spend over a billion isk on a pvp ship? If someone tells you they just spent a bil on anything for pvp other then a cap, you're going to assume that it's an expensive nano fit. Why? Because a billion isk anything else in pvp will die horribly, and everyone knows this, so no one bothers to fly them.
2) Adapt or die. This line was used so many times by nano-pilots, and it was perfectly valid when they said it. Now it's perfectly valid being used AGAINST nano pilots. If you can't adapt your strategy to account for this new nerf then you're living proof that nanos were OP.
3)Nanos are still going to be viable in pvp. Can't outrun missiles of your ship's class? Tough shit. You weren't supposed to be able to do so from the beginning. Now you're going to see eve become much more rock-paper-scissors. A nanoship is still not going to get hit by a battleship, it can still dictate range and will still be the prime choice for taking out large targets in battleships. But guess what? Battlecruisers are going to WTFPWN nanoHACs now, and battleships will WTFPWN battlecruisers. Gangs will now have to carry a mix of ships in order to be effective, which is how eve should be.
4)The major nerf to nanos (missiles aside but you can't honestly think you can justify being immune to a whole races weapons...) is that they can be caught once this nerf hits. Nanos will no longer have the ability to easily disengage if they get outnumbered. They'll still get away far more often then tanked HACs, BSs, BCs etc, but there will now be a good chance that if they get pinned down they will be caught.
As for the OPs list of counters:
A)NO nano pilot will EVER get within 5km of your ship. It's not gonna happen. Why carry a smartbomb when a web works at 10km?
B)Bombs would only work if you could detonate them at will (which would be freaking awesome TBH) Otherwise after 15 seconds it goes boom, which is enough time for a BATTLESHIP to notice it and GTFO, so don't think it'll work for something that can cover 15km in 2 seconds.
C)Neuts will turn off the MWD...eventually. Cycle lasts what, 10 seconds? and even if it didn't, the nano can still turn and warp on a dime, and the only thing that can fit heavy neuts is slow as hell. And a cap injector will completely nullify a neut.
D)Destroyers are decent at HITTING ceptors, but they won't be able to hold one down, and a dessy will die, and quickly, against a nanoHAC.
E)One rapier will die quickly to a nanogang, and saying that a specific ship is needed to counter a whole playstyle is just 
F) That's just stupid. "Nanos aren't overpowered, you can easily counter them with other nanos!" See the flaw in that logic?
G)Do you really think a nanoship is going to come within web range if you damp it? Really? Are you serious?
H) That's a double edged sword. Tactics work for nanos as well.
I) Asteroids... you sure you've flown nanoships before? If a strategy involves assuming that the other person is mildly ******ed is not a real tactic. J and K follow this same line of thought. Sit in the middle of a massive station and the nano will just leave. How is that any different from docking? Or jumping? Waiting for the other person to do something stupid is just not a valid tactic, since it can be applied to ANY ship. If I attack a carrier with an ishtar, and the carrier pilot forgets to turn on his tank, he will die (eventually  ). Does that make attacking a carrier with an ishtar solo viable? Pfft, no.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.29 20:18:00 -
[11]
Originally by: DNSBLACK
Well the devs think it is a problem cause noobs keep complaining. They want to make the game more noob friendly. What they need to do is allow for a seperation and not a nerf of things that are working.
So everyone who dislikes nanoships is a noob now? Get over yourself. Nanos are working just fine, if you're a nano pilot. If you prefer the tank and gank playstyle, you're boned. Bring 5 nanoships and they will kill any tanked BS. Bring 5 BSs and the nanoship just leaves.
Originally by: DNSBLACK
1. Nerf the speed in .5 and higher leave .4 to .0 alone.
So now just because you like to pvp in low/nullsec CCP should change the game to suit YOUR needs? Again, get over yourself.
Originally by: DNSBLACK
2. What the devs are also doing is making a peoples way of life tank. poly card, trit bars, snake implants not worth anything now.
Are the other pirate implants worthless then? Are non-poly rigs also worthless? No? Then STFU. Granted, you will see a price drop once the nerf hits, but that's just those rigs and implants coming in line with the other similar items. Why is a polycarb the most expensive rig in the game when it's used almost solely for pvp? Because they're worth more then any armor, shied, cap or damage rig, because nanos are OP.
Originally by: DNSBLACK
3. Dont you realize that when the nerf bat starts there is no stopping it. havnt you seen what the nerf bat has done to other games in the past. making a game more noob friendly wrecks the game period.
The nerf bat has been swinging since eve was first launched. Go look up cavalry ravens, gankageddons (the old non stacking nerfed ones) etc. When a type of ship is good enough that people are almost being forced into them CCP steps in. It's called balance.
Originally by: DNSBLACK
Leave the game alone and enjoy it for what it is.
No u.
Seriously, if CCP makes a change to the game you can't whine about the change, and in the same breath tell people that they should accept the game for what it is. It makes you a hypocrite. I've flown a fair number of nanoHACs (not the billion isk ones mind you, just tech II/rigged ones) and while I myself didn't have (much) of a problem with them, I could see why some people complained. I however accepted them for what they were and went on with my life. Now they are being nerfed. Guess what? I'm accepting that and moving on with my life. I'd suggest you do the same.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Doctor Ghandi
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Posted - 2008.07.29 20:25:00 -
[12]
Even if you have a problem with nano ships and such you must think about how this may unbalance other aspects of the game. Instead of putting full nerfs across the board for speed mods and ships, fix the ships that are the biggest problem. Introduce a bunch of small changes to keep balance instead of a huge patch that throws everything into the air.
PS Nano pilots have to be very good pilots in order to survive. It takes a large amount of experience and ISK...I dont think it would be fair to be able to kill someone with such skill if I couldnt match it.
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Napro
Caldari
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.30 01:12:00 -
[13]
Nanowhiner tears sustain me
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