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wtf do i do with my vagabond and rapier now?????

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Roderigo Borgia	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:14:00 - [1] both are now: fragile, slow, effectively un tankable in pvp due to 2 resistances holes in armour and needing mids for tackling - neither has great firepower so i ask what do you use them for???? you spend years perfecting minny speed fits and recon's and now this - made all those skill points worth the trouble hell i tested a fully nanoed vagabond on the test server with FULL snake implant set and i got 4.1km/s - god i'm **ed seems that they are now jsut expensive targets and what about interceptors - anyone with light drones and light missiles will ** them so noob in a kestrel will pwn them
Darco Karim	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:25:00 - [2] wait the nerf is not finished yet. <a href="http://rumandmonkey.com/widgets/toys/testgen/6199/"><img src="http://stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/9/9/6199/25765.jpg" title="Gunslinger" alt="Gunslinger" border="0" /></a><br />Gunslinger<br /
Draahk Chimera Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:45:00 - [3] How did people play the game before polycarbons was intreduced and nanomods boosted? Few years ago snake'd vaga did 5km/s. People flew them and flew them good.
RAZOR6374 Virtual Warriors	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:46:00 - [4] Maybe now the bigger ships can have fun to again. ;)
Andnowthenews Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:47:00 - [5] Edited by: Andnowthenews on 31/07/2008 11:47:10 Originally by: Draahk Chimera How did people play the game before polycarbons was intreduced and nanomods boosted? Few years ago snake'd vaga did 5km/s. People flew them and flew them good. 5kms in a vaga without polys or snakes i can live with.
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:47:00 - [6] vagabond: 220s heavy missiles mwd, 24k point, web, injector mar, dcu, 3x EANM II/2x EANMII + reactive need to find nice rigs.. armour drops speed and vice versa (just a little with good skills), maybe fallof or summin or maybe cap warriors/ecm This ****s small ships hard, does wonders vs drones too. If you want to be able to fight larger ships, switch to nano arty muninn and use the fact that everybody is still slower than you.. If you spent years you're doing it wrong, anyone able to fly hacs/recons should be able to figure a decent nano fit in 2 weeks, training takes 2 months max once you can fly hacs. Rapiers.. tbh these recons need to be cloaked more. So .. you know.. pick your targets iso flying around feeling uncatchable. They are a biatch to fit now since you really need 3 webs and really don't tank well. Use them to tackle long enough to get your gang in. Hugies are throwaway tacklers now, secondary target after curse/arazy/lachesis. Ceptors are ok-ish.. unless you're a nub you can kill off drones before they kill you, provided you stay out of scramble and web range.. kinda like now.. missiles is a problem, they need to be slightly nerfed... well actually ceptors need to be 5-6 iso 4-5 km when t2 fitted, t1 rigged.. All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Sweet Rosella	Posted - 2008.07.31 11:51:00 - [7] This is not the first time speed has been nerfed
Von LundenBerg Aliastra	Posted - 2008.07.31 12:38:00 - [8] Edited by: Von LundenBerg on 31/07/2008 12:38:22 can i have your stuff?
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.07.31 12:44:00 - [9] Recycle them into Jaguars and Wolves. ------------------------------------------
Sweet Rosella	Posted - 2008.07.31 12:46:00 - [10] Originally by: Shadowsword Recycle them into Jaguars and Wolves. iskurs beat jaguars
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.07.31 12:50:00 - [11] can anyone give me a good setup for rapier/huggin post-nerf? I'm being serious.... I am wondering if it is possible and can't log onto test server to test it out. I'm seriously sensing a lack of mids are gonna be a problem with need for lots of webs, and if it can't nano to keep up with a moderately webbed target it is gonna need plenty of them. If i did my maths right (i'm not sure i did) this is what a rapiers webs would do to a 6km/s ship (inty) Module 1: 2400 Module 2: 1148.4672 Module 3: 755.2896 Module 4: 627.0618 I'm thinking mid: 3 webs, 1 warp disruptor, 1 sensor booster, 1 mwd lows: nano stuff your gonna need that nano equipment to be able to catch up with them though I have no idea what speed you would be going with it after nerf. this setup leaves it with no defence however where as before we had 2 LSE + nano so it's gonna die pretty easy.
Roderigo Borgia	Posted - 2008.07.31 13:17:00 - [12] i'm selling my vaga's and rapiers now - i dont think there is really a fit that will work with them now - they were entirely speed and web reliant ships since both have been nerfed to high hell - hoping to sell them before people realise that fact
Feyona aurorae pacificas	Posted - 2008.07.31 13:23:00 - [13] Edited by: Feyona on 31/07/2008 13:23:06 Originally by: Keitaro Baka vagabond: 220s heavy missiles mwd, 24k point, web, injector mar, dcu, 3x EANM II/2x EANMII + reactive need to find nice rigs.. armour drops speed and vice versa (just a little with good skills), maybe fallof or summin or maybe cap warriors/ecm This ****s small ships hard, does wonders vs drones too. If you want to be able to fight larger ships, switch to nano arty muninn and use the fact that everybody is still slower than you.. If you spent years you're doing it wrong, anyone able to fly hacs/recons should be able to figure a decent nano fit in 2 weeks, training takes 2 months max once you can fly hacs. Rapiers.. tbh these recons need to be cloaked more. So .. you know.. pick your targets iso flying around feeling uncatchable. They are a biatch to fit now since you really need 3 webs and really don't tank well. Use them to tackle long enough to get your gang in. Hugies are throwaway tacklers now, secondary target after curse/arazy/lachesis. Ceptors are ok-ish.. unless you're a nub you can kill off drones before they kill you, provided you stay out of scramble and web range.. kinda like now.. missiles is a problem, they need to be slightly nerfed... well actually ceptors need to be 5-6 iso 4-5 km when t2 fitted, t1 rigged.. Dunno why you would use 3 EANM, you get better overall resists with ex/kin hardeners and one EANM, everything over 70% or so, with EM at 93 and thermal at 80... still doesn't tank real well and if you get whomped you only have 1600 buffer HP. But it could be fun still I suppose.
DNSBLACK Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates	Posted - 2008.07.31 13:52:00 - [14] Add them to the heap of other recons CCP has wrecked. The nerf recon deth pile Useless ships= Arazu, Lach ( Even if it get a scram shut off mod it skill sucks go fly one LOL). Pilgram and now the rapier and huggin. Recons worth flying= Curse, falcon and Rook. I know the caldari recons got a buff last time but now guess what everone will be flying those ships noobs will complain and bam out coms the nerf bat LOL. Iam sorry ccp you have got this nerf way wrong you havnt considered the time and effort people have put into learning how to fly these ships and any Ceptor, frig, Intercidtor is f#cked LOL. The game is playing fine speed is fine it is the people who dont understand that eve is a hard game that need a nerf to there fing head or should that be a buff. LEAVE THE GAME ALONE PLEASE MAKE THEM BUFF THERE BRAIN AND FIND AWAY TO FIGHT NANOS. Theya are out there and there are plenty of them people just want it to come easy.
Roderigo Borgia	Posted - 2008.07.31 14:58:00 - [15] Edited by: Roderigo Borgia on 31/07/2008 15:05:54 ironically the nerfed one of the best anti-nano ships too hell tahts the whole point of huginn and rapier - even against the fastest ships rapier and huginn could **** em if they dont stop nerfing thigns to make it easy for the noobs might as well rename the game wow in space
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Imperial Servants	Posted - 2008.07.31 15:03:00 - [16] Originally by: Roderigo Borgia ironically the nerfed one of the best anti-nano ships too hell tahts the whole point of huginn and rapier - even against the fastest ships rapier and huginn could **** em if they stop nerfing thigns to make it easy for the noobs might as well rename the game wow in space So, everyone has to train minmatarr to be competitive. If you don't fly a nano vaga, you have to fly a huginn and rapier (2 accounts) or you lose. With this nerf, other ships might actually become usefull??? P.S. if you really dislike those 2 ships, I'll do you the favor taking them off your hands
Mira O'karr Minmatar Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.07.31 15:09:00 - [17] Originally by: Draahk Chimera How did people play the game before polycarbons was intreduced and nanomods boosted? Few years ago snake'd vaga did 5km/s. People flew them and flew them good. the problem is not the reduction in top speed, the problem is that there is no way to decrease mass and get better accelleration. back then the acceleration was alright. on sisi today, it is not!. there is no module left (previously nanofibres) that decreases ship mass.
Roderigo Borgia	Posted - 2008.07.31 15:14:00 - [18] dont be silly - a vagabonds speed can be counters with a couple of trackign disruptors or ecm or interceptors or hell there are loads of ways to counter them my point is that they ruined teh vagabond and then ruined the only other useful minmatar t2 crusiers ( ok the broadsword is still ncie but give them time they have it in for the minmatar - will do doubt open a huge resistance hole in the shields soon ) liek was said - there are loads of ways to counter nano ships same way there is to counter other things - hell ecm is overpowered in my opinion - one falcon can remove a couple bs from a fight - ever seen a vagabond do that? and i do resent the isk i have spend on vagabonds and rapiers and hungins not to mention the time spent on skilling for them which is now effectively useless a vagabond has no use in pvp at all if it cant avoid damage bye going insanely fast and being highly mauneverable - a rapier is now what? cant effectively pin a target any more and since iwll now need 3 webbers and going slowly you now have no survivality - its like a gift to your enemies - oh look vagabonds and rapiers everyone get out your noob ships and lets kill those noobs
Mira O'karr Minmatar Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.07.31 15:16:00 - [19] i m thinking rapier .. triple LSE + core defence field purgers + dual webs - scram ? at least it ll stay alive for a while :) makes good warp in points :P
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.07.31 15:28:00 - [20] Originally by: Mira O'karr i m thinking rapier .. triple LSE + core defence field purgers + dual webs - scram ? at least it ll stay alive for a while :) makes good warp in points :P may work ok in small gangs but if you don't have someone else with a webber any target that can go over 1500m/s before webs will be able to outrun you after you web them. thats rough number assuming a couple nano mods in lows. As for being initial tackler I'd reccomend adding in a sensor booster to lock them in time.
Lurana Lay Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.31 16:00:00 - [21] Um, maybe fight targets your size and smaller? Using, you know, TACTICS to avoid the dangerous stuff? But I'm sorry you are no longer immune and can't pwn everything up to and including a BS and disengage at will anymore.
Seishi Maru Infinity Enterprises Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.31 16:07:00 - [22] Originally by: Lurana Lay Um, maybe fight targets your size and smaller? Using, you know, TACTICS to avoid the dangerous stuff? But I'm sorry you are no longer immune and can't pwn everything up to and including a BS and disengage at will anymore. For god's sake.. How? Try fighting a cerberus with a vaga now. Nothing you can do will diminish the damage you take, nothing you can do wil make his tank fail before yours. Arazu now tackles better than rapier.... If you try to use vaga as armor tanker close range you wil be wtfpowned by any deimos ishtar, sacriledge, curse, pilgrim, Ibis and velator around...
Andreya Direct Intent	Posted - 2008.07.31 16:10:00 - [23] take one or two low slots and make them mid slots so we can properly shield tank it _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.07.31 16:18:00 - [24] Originally by: Seishi Maru For god's sake.. How? Try fighting a cerberus with a vaga now. Nothing you can do will diminish the damage you take, nothing you can do wil make his tank fail before yours. So finally a reason to start flying my cerb again? Nice!!!
DNSBLACK Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates	Posted - 2008.07.31 16:31:00 - [25] Edited by: DNSBLACK on 31/07/2008 16:34:51 No you dont have to fly a countership to win. You do have to have a team. The problem is you want to solo in ships that suck and not train the ones that are good. You would rather nerf the nanos instead of take tyhe time to fly a ship that can do solo work and in nerfing those ships you kill every small ship in the game. Have you ever heard of team work. The ships that cant solo or 1v1 well are ment to be part of a team. I run a team approach everyone has a role in DNS. Tackler Ewar Web nuets DPS The game is designed so each ship can fill a nitch and with good tactics you can be anyone. The problem is we have noobs PVPing now and they dont understnad that. With out speed we cant tackle and stay alive. We cant swoop in and drop a bubble and stay alive. Recons cant stay in a fight and do there job so on. Learn to play with a team or fly ships that are ment to do solo work. Dont hurt the game we love by think if you nerf nano tanks you will balance the game.
Minami Sayuri	Posted - 2008.07.31 16:37:00 - [26] If you can't think of what to do with them, sell them now before the nerf. You'll get your ISK back and you can always take some time to think about it and buy it again when you're ready. I sold my vagabonds and rapiers... Don't want to risk losing money if the faction mods go down in price...
Roderigo Borgia	Posted - 2008.07.31 17:33:00 - [27] Originally by: Lurana Lay Um, maybe fight targets your size and smaller? Using, you know, TACTICS to avoid the dangerous stuff? But I'm sorry you are no longer immune and can't pwn everything up to and including a BS and disengage at will anymore. thats my point though a vagabond would struggle vs a t1 crusier now - it has no point anymore - it didn't shield or armour tank - it had a speed tank - now it doesn;t have that either as for engaging anything at will - 1 large energy neut will kill a vagabond - in precisely 6 seconds - 2 and its insta stopped - mwd is gone history bye bye weapon disrutpros with range script forces vagabond into web range - vagabond dead or more senibly run away huginn or rapier long range webb his ass and once again hes a sitting duck - cant move cant get into weapons range and jsut has to sit there till he dies vagabonds had loads of ways to kill them - its just that now they have no way to survive and the rapiers and huginns now cant stop ships - ah well jsut have to wait until the next patch when teh nerf the next ship noobs discover they cant kill - could be falcons next but then ccp has a caldari fetish so maybe not
Ephemeron Retribution Corp.	Posted - 2008.07.31 18:35:00 - [28] Once the speed setups are no longer viable.. wouldn't the Battlecruiser outperform the "new" HAC? Only Ishtar would remain better than Myrmidon - because poor Myrmidon got the CCP nerf sledgehammer not too long ago. But Vagabond? Hurricane would do much better
Euriti Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:09:00 - [29] Originally by: Keitaro Baka vagabond: 220s heavy missiles mwd, 24k point, web, injector mar, dcu, 3x EANM II/2x EANMII + reactive need to find nice rigs.. armour drops speed and vice versa (just a little with good skills), maybe fallof or summin or maybe cap warriors/ecm This ****s small ships hard, does wonders vs drones too. If you want to be able to fight larger ships, switch to nano arty muninn and use the fact that everybody is still slower than you.. If you spent years you're doing it wrong, anyone able to fly hacs/recons should be able to figure a decent nano fit in 2 weeks, training takes 2 months max once you can fly hacs. Rapiers.. tbh these recons need to be cloaked more. So .. you know.. pick your targets iso flying around feeling uncatchable. They are a biatch to fit now since you really need 3 webs and really don't tank well. Use them to tackle long enough to get your gang in. Hugies are throwaway tacklers now, secondary target after curse/arazy/lachesis. Ceptors are ok-ish.. unless you're a nub you can kill off drones before they kill you, provided you stay out of scramble and web range.. kinda like now.. missiles is a problem, they need to be slightly nerfed... well actually ceptors need to be 5-6 iso 4-5 km when t2 fitted, t1 rigged.. EFT warrior spotted. It has 1600 armor. That's way too little buffer to tank anything.
John Blackthorn Foundation Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:44:00 - [30] If anyone knows me in game they know I mostly fly Huggins, my favorite ship, looks kewl, with some kewl ability's. I am concerned about the reduction in web strength to 60% on t2 webs. Just the other night I faced off with a vaga that was 10km from me and I had him double webed and he was still able to get out run me with two 90% webs on him. I have recon 5 and mwd and could not keep up. So by dropping webs to 60% and dropping all ship speeds I'm stoo not too sure how things will turn out. -John

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