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removing mass reducing modules is a problem

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Mira O'karr Minmatar Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.08.01 06:02:00 - [1] i have been on sisi for a fair bit now and as a result i come to the conclusion that while nerfing top speed is fine, the removal of all mass reducing modules is causing problems. fast ships are still fast in comparison to slow ships before the patch but being unable to lower your ships mass reduces your acceleration. this is what is killing nano ships more than the top speed nerf. a 3.5k/s vaga is fine but a 3.5k/s vaga that needs a minute to reach this speed is not. blaster boats and minmatar ships are getting hit the hardest here. i propose to bring back the old nanofibre.
Kil'Roy Minmatar The Rat Patrol	Posted - 2008.08.01 06:15:00 - [2] Sounds like some people might need to relearn how to fly. They got too used to flying nano ships. Acceleration alone shouldn't get you out of all situations that you put yourself in. I'm not discounting what you are saying, but you may consider changing the "way" you fly a Vaga.
Elaine Celeste	Posted - 2008.08.01 06:17:00 - [3] Originally by: Kil'Roy Sounds like some people might need to relearn how to fly. They got too used to flying nano ships. Acceleration alone shouldn't get you out of all situations that you put yourself in. I'm not discounting what you are saying, but you may consider changing the "way" you fly a Vaga. Changing the way he flies a vagabond? Why??? If it can't speedtank, he's much better off flying a BC or BS. CELESTE LOTTERIES
Kil'Roy Minmatar The Rat Patrol	Posted - 2008.08.01 06:21:00 - [4] Speed tanking isn't all about Acceleration, its mostly about transversal.
Marzzola Minmatar Macabre Votum Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.08.01 06:23:00 - [5] Edited by: Marzzola on 01/08/2008 06:26:22 Edited by: Marzzola on 01/08/2008 06:25:47 Originally by: Kil'Roy Sounds like some people might need to relearn how to fly. They got too used to flying nano ships. Acceleration alone shouldn't get you out of all situations that you put yourself in. I'm not discounting what you are saying, but you may consider changing the "way" you fly a Vaga. You say people should find a different way of flying a vaga with out suggesting a way. vagabond is a speed ship. If it can't utilize its speed, whats the point of being a speed ship? If every time you turn your ship it takes forever to get back up to speed and lowet is transversal it will pretty much get instapoped once you change targets. its like an ishtar flying with out drones.
Kil'Roy Minmatar The Rat Patrol	Posted - 2008.08.01 06:25:00 - [6] Edited by: Kil''Roy on 01/08/2008 06:25:42 Originally by: Marzzola Originally by: Kil'Roy Sounds like some people might need to relearn how to fly. They got too used to flying nano ships. Acceleration alone shouldn't get you out of all situations that you put yourself in. I'm not discounting what you are saying, but you may consider changing the "way" you fly a Vaga. You say people should find a different way of flying a vaga with out suggesting a way. vagabond is a speed ship. If it can't utilize its speed, whats the point of being a speed ship? its like an ishtar flying with out drones. The OP isn't talking about speed, he's taking about being quick. There is a difference.
Marzzola Minmatar Macabre Votum Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.08.01 06:29:00 - [7] read my edited post you still haven't suggested a better way to fly this ship
Mira O'karr Minmatar Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.08.01 06:33:00 - [8] it is not even just about the vaga. blaster boats as well suffer from this. the problem is that the acceleration is no longer in the same relation to your top speed as before. the average pilot on tq now has decent acceleration when firing the MWD. acceleration is a major part of combat and you should really be concerned about this change. i think most people who are on this anti nano whiner bandwagon did not really test any of the changes.
Kil'Roy Minmatar The Rat Patrol	Posted - 2008.08.01 06:40:00 - [9] It sounds like you have gotten used to doing gun runs. -Don't sit at a gate idle, orbit at speed. Easier to get up to speed when you hit MWD. -Don't click aproach target and bump, use the orbit button approach off angle. You won't be able to engage as quick, but that's the drawback. -Stay outside of scam range at all costs. -Don't turn your ship all at once, split angles. If you try a 180, you're done. Try more like 30-45 degrees every few seconds. Granted you are not as agile as before, but face it, the ships are not as agile as before. You need to fly them that way. Honestly, I haven't tested any new Vaga or Inty setups since the change, but I'm planning to this weekend. But that is how I flew ships that were fast but not agile in the past.
Mira O'karr Minmatar Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.08.01 06:41:00 - [10] test them on the weekend please and see what you think. you are underestimating the result of the changes on sisi :)
Slade Hoo Amarr xPlaguex	Posted - 2008.08.01 06:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Mira O'karr blaster boats as well suffer from this. blaster boats fit mass reduction modules? never seen a mega/thorax/astarte/etc. fitting polys or Nanofiber.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.01 06:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Kil'Roy But that is how I flew ships that were fast but not agile in the past. So tell me how that helps blaster boats that take upwards of 4x as long to get up to 70% speed? How are they supposed to cross 20km? How are ships supposed to maintain transversal? How are ships supposed to be "agile" and kite? There are many, many, many things that you're simply not taking into account with your assertion of "high speed low agility" ships should be flown. Agility is not only about "the nano". -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.01 07:01:00 - [13] Originally by: Slade Hoo Originally by: Mira O'karr blaster boats as well suffer from this. blaster boats fit mass reduction modules? never seen a mega/thorax/astarte/etc. fitting polys or Nanofiber. They don't. They'd have to after this patch though... it takes an absurd amount of time to accelerate in a blaster boat on Sisi. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
MenanceWhite Amarr Red Light Navy	Posted - 2008.08.01 07:33:00 - [14] Edited by: MenanceWhite on 01/08/2008 07:34:50 Woah, hold on a sec. Agility, which allows manual manuvering, which actually requires some SKILL from the players is lowered. And replaced with dumbed down lol hit orbit at xxdistance crap. That's brilliant. Soon it's just F1 F2 F3, wait it already is Besides, Agility is like massinertia or something like that. The lower the better, why don't you just use istabs? Actually the new nano will still make you somewhat agile. --- Originally by:* Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
Mira O'karr Minmatar Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.08.01 07:49:00 - [15] agility is not the problem. without the ability to reduce your mass and with the mass changes on some ships the mwd boost accelleration is far lower than currently on TQ. this has a great impact on the manual flying. indeed, now it is just hit orbit, yawn, and perma run whatever ab or mwd you have fitted. combat flight, if any thing, has been dumbed down tremendously. (and my bad re the blasterboats :) it is not the absences of mass reducing modules that make them suck now but still the lower acceleration)
Gordon Red SteelVipers Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.08.01 10:06:00 - [16] Even the acceleration on interceptors are BAD.
Sekket Caldari White-Noise	Posted - 2008.08.01 16:46:00 - [17] I think the issue here is the ability to blast past a gatecamp.
Vision Threads	Posted - 2008.08.01 18:05:00 - [18] Lag often plays a bigger role in dogfight outcomes than player skill. Like when you click to change direction or speed and the command doesn't go through until 5 seconds latter and by the time UI updates you're into structure. Reducing high-speed combat to "orbit and yawn" really evens the playing field for people with sub-par connections...for example Aussies vs. Brits living 20 miles from CCP's servers.
Spurty Caldari Trader's Academy Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2008.08.01 18:13:00 - [19] drop overdrives for nanofibers (hit top speed faster) and inertia stabs (don't lose as much speed while orbiting). You won't get to 3.5kms, but will be attaining a high enough transversal to make a ship without missiles or drones useless as ever. -- Two prostitutes standing on a street corner. One says to the other, "Have you ever been picked up by the fuzz?" The other replies, "No, but I've been swung around by the ****!"

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