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Archetype02 Gallente Comply Or Die	Posted - 2008.08.01 07:52:00 - [1] with the whole tracking disruptor thing going on and people whining about caldari's overpowered missile hits i've read up on the forums and strangely enough found no one came up with this idea. its fair to assume most missiles are cpu guided/heat seaking missiles, with the current state of the flawed defenders i hereby suggest the following module. chafing modules.. for every one un-aware what chafing is this video will prettymuch explain it.. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fxhJgjPGGDY chafing is a way to disrupt missiles and make them find another non essential target. essentialy this should be deployable as a defence againsty missiles and thereby replacing the current defender system. the new chafing system would insure "less" missile hits. essentialy balancing the tracking disruptor module.
Mira O'karr Minmatar Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.08.01 08:27:00 - [2] fit tech 2 burberry and the missle tracking system will explode from rageing ugly ? good pla.. oh wait, chaff :(
Archetype02 Gallente Comply Or Die	Posted - 2008.08.01 08:49:00 - [3] Originally by: Mira O'karr fit tech 2 burberry and the missle tracking system will explode from rageing ugly ? good pla.. oh wait, chaff :( please stick to constructive criticism.. :\
MenanceWhite Amarr Red Light Navy	Posted - 2008.08.01 09:09:00 - [4] The thing is that comparing to tracking disruptor for example, clever manuvering combined with the use of it can completely nullify a turret ships DPS. The current module that youre suggesting is nothing else than basicly fitting on another EANM or passive invul field that only works against missiles. Or even worse random chance that some of missiles might deal 0 damage. It's also a "defensive" EW module (non existant) which will protect you from 20 kestrels as 1 kestrel provided that they shoot at you during the same time. That compared to forexample damper/jammer/td in which is only effective versus a single target. Something more viable would be a midslot fitted "launcher disruptor" that reduces max velocity and flight time as trackind disruptor reduces tracking and optimal range. --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
Archetype02 Gallente Comply Or Die	Posted - 2008.08.01 09:43:00 - [5] Edited by: Archetype02 on 01/08/2008 09:44:39 Originally by: MenanceWhite The thing is that comparing to tracking disruptor for example, clever manuvering combined with the use of it can completely nullify a turret ships DPS. The current module that youre suggesting is nothing else than basicly fitting on another EANM or passive invul field that only works against missiles. Or even worse random chance that some of missiles might deal 0 damage. It's also a "defensive" EW module (non existant) which will protect you from 20 kestrels as 1 kestrel provided that they shoot at you during the same time. That compared to forexample damper/jammer/td in which is only effective versus a single target. Something more viable would be a midslot fitted "launcher disruptor" that reduces max velocity and flight time as trackind disruptor reduces tracking and optimal range. you assume chaff instantly knocks out all incoming missiles.. while instead it would be more like a slow release of anti missile ew.. it doesnt intercept all missiles.. seeing you should effectivly block max 20% [faction/officer] of his salvo for example regarding the tracking disruptor equivalent being a targetted module.. this would be a non target module as it would intercept missiles from EVERY ship shooting at you.. making it a tacticaly bypassible defense as well.. imagine a small frig pounding smaller missiles to counter your chaff.. whats the point of disrupting a missile launcher when missiles are controlled after launch individualy by their onboard cpu's thats like saying im going to ECM you after you put your drones on me.
Sweet Rosella	Posted - 2008.08.01 10:00:00 - [6] Edited by: Sweet Rosella on 01/08/2008 10:02:26 did you know that smart bombs destroys missiles, once I seen a guy fit full rack of smart bombs to a jamming scorpion and the torpedoes got destroyed before they hit his ship
Archetype02 Gallente Comply Or Die	Posted - 2008.08.01 10:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Sweet Rosella Edited by: Sweet Rosella on 01/08/2008 10:01:34 did you know that smart bombs destroys missiles, once I seen a guy fit smart bombs to a jamming scorpion and the torpedoes got destroyed before they hit his ship ehm yeah but those take highslots why should i nerf my dps to counter his ? thats rediculous
Sweet Rosella	Posted - 2008.08.01 10:03:00 - [8] Originally by: Archetype02 Originally by: Sweet Rosella Edited by: Sweet Rosella on 01/08/2008 10:01:34 did you know that smart bombs destroys missiles, once I seen a guy fit smart bombs to a jamming scorpion and the torpedoes got destroyed before they hit his ship ehm yeah but those take highslots why should i nerf my dps to counter his ? thats rediculous Well jamming ships are ofton called primary so can u see the use of this
MenanceWhite Amarr Red Light Navy	Posted - 2008.08.01 10:10:00 - [9] Edited by: MenanceWhite on 01/08/2008 10:11:23 No, I mean that your "chaff" is going to be a module you activate - and then it's going to block or reduce effiency at a certain % of the missiles shot at you. But that means if there's one missile ship shooting at you and getting a 20% damage loss. And that if there's 20 missile ships shooting at you every one of those 20% are going to get a damage loss provided that they're firing at you during the same time. That's very unlike any other EW you see there. I don't see my TD disrupting the tracking range+optimal of every ship shooting at me. or do you mean that chaff only blocks a certain amount of missiles per cycle? Because in that case say byebye to the missile damage to whatever other ships that only uses 1-2 launchers in their setup. --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
Marquis Zenas Gallente m3 Corp BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.08.01 10:44:00 - [10] See this thread. There was some interesting ideas discussed about a missile TD alternative... --------------------------
Archetype02 Gallente Comply Or Die	Posted - 2008.08.01 11:57:00 - [11] Edited by: Archetype02 on 01/08/2008 11:57:35 Originally by: Sweet Rosella Edited by: Sweet Rosella on 01/08/2008 10:43:12 Sweet Rosella on 01/08/2008 10:01:34 did you know that smart bombs destroys missiles, once I seen a guy fit smart bombs to a jamming scorpion and the torpedoes got destroyed before they hit his ship ehm yeah but those take highslots why should i nerf my dps to counter his ? thats rediculous why should you reduce someones damage and not your own Well jamming ships are often called primary so can u see the use of this?. You know jam the turret ships and defend against the missile boat with smart bombs, Creating another module to create balance in the game is not how ccp looks at things, if you wish to create an item in the game that gives you an advantage you have to incur a disadvantage or ccp will just dismiss your idea, just so you know ccp are going to Nerf missiles to keep in line with the future speed changes, they have stated this. wow are you dumb ? this is an equivalent of what a tracking disruptor is to gunboats. we are already losing DPS over this and, missile boats are not so stfu and stop posting BS this module is designed to do the same damage loss as a tracking disruptor.. BALANCE..
Archetype02 Gallente Comply Or Die	Posted - 2008.08.01 12:01:00 - [12] Originally by: MenanceWhite Edited by: MenanceWhite on 01/08/2008 10:11:23 No, I mean that your "chaff" is going to be a module you activate - and then it's going to block or reduce effiency at a certain % of the missiles shot at you. But that means if there's one missile ship shooting at you and getting a 20% damage loss. And that if there's 20 missile ships shooting at you every one of those 20% are going to get a damage loss provided that they're firing at you during the same time. That's very unlike any other EW you see there. I don't see my TD disrupting the tracking range+optimal of every ship shooting at me. or do you mean that chaff only blocks a certain amount of missiles per cycle? Because in that case say byebye to the missile damage to whatever other ships that only uses 1-2 launchers in their setup. chaff should be made out of charges.. each cycle should only replenish so many chaff flares. making a ligth missile boat effective as a chaff disabeler while the battleship hits for full effect.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.01 12:13:00 - [13] Edited by: Hugh Ruka on 01/08/2008 12:14:37 Originally by: Archetype02 Edited by: Archetype02 on 01/08/2008 11:57:35 Originally by: Sweet Rosella Edited by: Sweet Rosella on 01/08/2008 10:43:12 Sweet Rosella on 01/08/2008 10:01:34 did you know that smart bombs destroys missiles, once I seen a guy fit smart bombs to a jamming scorpion and the torpedoes got destroyed before they hit his ship ehm yeah but those take highslots why should i nerf my dps to counter his ? thats rediculous why should you reduce someones damage and not your own Well jamming ships are often called primary so can u see the use of this?. You know jam the turret ships and defend against the missile boat with smart bombs, Creating another module to create balance in the game is not how ccp looks at things, if you wish to create an item in the game that gives you an advantage you have to incur a disadvantage or ccp will just dismiss your idea, just so you know ccp are going to Nerf missiles to keep in line with the future speed changes, they have stated this. wow are you dumb ? this is an equivalent of what a tracking disruptor is to gunboats. we are already losing DPS over this and, missile boats are not so stfu and stop posting BS this module is designed to do the same damage loss as a tracking disruptor.. BALANCE.. stop being an idiot yourself. you are not proposing a TD like module, you are proposing a firescreen module ... TDs are 1 to 1 modules ... you need one module to disrupt 1 enemy, yet the enemy can maneuver to limit the effectivnes of your TD (get closer, minimise transversal). Chaff is 1 to many because it is a decoy for missiles and not for the ships computers. How would you like if TDs would disrupt all enemies that happen to have a turret active on me ? Anyway missiles and turrets are different weapon systems. Turrets carry all the tracking functionality and ammo is only a damage modifier (ok optimal but they modify the turret attribute). Missiles are autonomous objects and the launcher they come out does not influence them in any way. The modifiers you can "disrupt" are: flight time velocity explosion radius explosion velocity Except the first 2, there is nothing a missile ship can do to combat the effect of disruption without extra modules (which do not even exist other than rigs ... HEY what about a tracking computer module for missiles ? even drones have them). So go back to your drawing board and rethink the situation, this time including ALL the data. Then maybe you can come up with something usable. EDIT: spelling --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Darco Karim	Posted - 2008.08.01 12:14:00 - [14] Edited by: Darco Karim on 01/08/2008 12:14:32 <a href="http://rumandmonkey.com/widgets/toys/testgen/6199/"><img src="http://stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/9/9/6199/25765.jpg" title="Gunslinger" alt="Gunslinger" border="0" /></a><br />Gunslinger<br /
Sweet Rosella	Posted - 2008.08.01 12:16:00 - [15] Originally by: Archetype02 Edited by: Archetype02 on 01/08/2008 11:57:35 Originally by: Sweet Rosella Edited by: Sweet Rosella on 01/08/2008 10:43:12 Sweet Rosella on 01/08/2008 10:01:34 did you know that smart bombs destroys missiles, once I seen a guy fit smart bombs to a jamming scorpion and the torpedoes got destroyed before they hit his ship ehm yeah but those take highslots why should i nerf my dps to counter his ? thats rediculous why should you reduce someones damage and not your own Well jamming ships are often called primary so can u see the use of this?. You know jam the turret ships and defend against the missile boat with smart bombs, Creating another module to create balance in the game is not how ccp looks at things, if you wish to create an item in the game that gives you an advantage you have to incur a disadvantage or ccp will just dismiss your idea, just so you know ccp are going to Nerf missiles to keep in line with the future speed changes, they have stated this. wow are you dumb ? this is an equivalent of what a tracking disruptor is to gunboats. we are already losing DPS over this and, missile boats are not so stfu and stop posting BS this module is designed to do the same damage loss as a tracking disruptor.. BALANCE.. Lol you think I am dumb, In my first reply after reading all posts I decided to mentioned about smart bombs to give you or someone else an idea, perhaps to take it into a new direction you FAILD to see this, like you faild to read that CCP have mententond they are going to adjust missils in some way
Vision Threads	Posted - 2008.08.01 13:05:00 - [16] They should just add new missile scripts to the existing tracking disruptors. There's no reason to add a whole new mod. It would breathe some life back into the curse and pilgrim to be able to do something against missile ships.
Archetype02 Gallente Comply Or Die	Posted - 2008.08.01 14:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Sweet Rosella Edited by: Sweet Rosella on 01/08/2008 12:19:00 Originally by: Archetype02 Edited by: Archetype02 on 01/08/2008 11:57:35 Originally by: Sweet Rosella Edited by: Sweet Rosella on 01/08/2008 10:43:12 Sweet Rosella on 01/08/2008 10:01:34 did you know that smart bombs destroys missiles, once I seen a guy fit smart bombs to a jamming scorpion and the torpedoes got destroyed before they hit his ship ehm yeah but those take highslots why should i nerf my dps to counter his ? thats rediculous why should you reduce someones damage and not your own Well jamming ships are often called primary so can u see the use of this?. You know jam the turret ships and defend against the missile boat with smart bombs, Creating another module to create balance in the game is not how ccp looks at things, if you wish to create an item in the game that gives you an advantage you have to incur a disadvantage or ccp will just dismiss your idea, just so you know ccp are going to Nerf missiles to keep in line with the future speed changes, they have stated this. wow are you dumb ? this is an equivalent of what a tracking disruptor is to gunboats. we are already losing DPS over this and, missile boats are not so stfu and stop posting BS this module is designed to do the same damage loss as a tracking disruptor.. BALANCE.. Lol, you think I am dumb, In my first reply after reading all posts I decided to mentioned about smart bombs to give you or someone else an idea, perhaps to take it into a new direction you FAILD to see this, like you FAILD to read that CCP have mententond they are going to adjust missils in some way to keep inline with the new speed changies. Calling me dumb is no defence for your lack of imagination, specily while I am trying to help so now you have lost 1 vote to support your idea FAIL Fail ? caldari already has this option it has the benefits of the tracking disruptor and NONE of the withdrawals "hey guess what missles dont track and hit 100% depending on the sig radius.." wow a bs vs bs now always hits compared to a blasterboat that does hits msises and wrecking.. and THEN has to face with a tracking disruptor.. all im saying is that there should be a module that does the same to them, now stfu and read before you comment.
Darco Karim	Posted - 2008.08.01 15:27:00 - [18] Cache cleared.
Archetype02 Gallente Comply Or Die	Posted - 2008.08.01 16:09:00 - [19] Edited by: Archetype02 on 01/08/2008 16:09:55 Edited by: Archetype02 on 01/08/2008 16:09:19 Originally by: Darco Karim Originally by: Archetype02 chafing modules.. for every one un-aware what chafing is this video will prettymuch explain it.. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fxhJgjPGGDY I can see it now badgers flying around spewing out chaff and lagging the server to a hult technicly this should only be a visual display that can be shut off with ctrl alt shift E.. valid point where as i think this should be limited to combat ships.. there as a TD can only be used against a combat ship aswell
griff1972 Caldari Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.01 16:21:00 - [20] It would be nice if TD's where changed to weapon disruptors and the scripts altered so that a tracking script would also alter a missiles explosion velocity/sig radios and the range script would also alter the flight time or/and missiles velocity. CCp "The paying Customer seems to be enjoying that modual," "yeah lets nerf him"
Altho Regilian Caldari Zantiu-Braun Security Services Zantiu-Braun Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.01 16:30:00 - [21] Edited by: Altho Regilian on 01/08/2008 16:33:15 I have always been a proponent of having another look at how missiles work and have learned everything I can about their mechanics. To the OP: Currently there is no module in place to "disrupt" missiles because missiles don't have mid or low slot items such as tracking computers and tracking enhancers. One of the ways CCP balances things is that to everything there is a counter. For a gun user, they can use a tracking computer to overcome the effects of a tracking disruptor. NOS was something that was changed a while ago because how it worked didn't fit with this mantra and there was nothing to counter it. It was changed so that now a cap recharger is considered the "counter" to NOS. Stated again, missiles currently have no modules available to act as a "counter" to a module such as what you are proposing. However, they DO have defender missiles which are supposed to lessen the amount of damage you receive from a salvo by taking out one or two missiles from said salvo. This is where missiles were supposed to get the "miss chance" as guns have even though average DPS for missiles is lower than average DPS for a gun user. Lower, but consistent damage is the name of the game for missiles. Should you really want a module which acts like a tracking disruptor for missiles, I am all for it. But ONLY if it is released with similar mid and low slot modules like what gun users have. In fact, CCP COULD just add the stats to effect missile velocity and missile explosion velocity onto the current tracking computers and tracking enhancers as well as release scripts for the same. Then they could also add the same stats to the tracking disruptors to disrupt the missile velocity and explosion velocity. IF CCP were to either do that or release a whole new set of modules for missiles, then I'm all for adding them. It adds variety by allowing us missile users to fit our ships more for the mission we have in mind while giving other players the options of choosing between a tracking disruptor or the missile equivalent (or even the scripts for that matter!) edited for clarification
Altho Regilian Caldari Zantiu-Braun Security Services Zantiu-Braun Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.01 17:02:00 - [22] P.S. I think I'm just going to start adding to a bunch of these anti-missile posts that defenders aren't broken. Whats broken is how everyone expects to be able to use them. e.g. turn it on and expect it to take out every missile headed your way. Fit a rocket launcher (holds 10 defenders), put it on manual. When the missiles get in range of the defender, let one fly. When it hits, let another one fly. Rinse and repeat. ALL missiles smaller than a torpedo will be destroyed in one hit from a defender. If you use them right you can take out a not insignificant chunk of the missile users DPS.
griff1972 Caldari Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.01 17:33:00 - [23] Originally by: Altho Regilian P.S. I think I'm just going to start adding to a bunch of these anti-missile posts that defenders aren't broken. Whats broken is how everyone expects to be able to use them. e.g. turn it on and expect it to take out every missile headed your way. Fit a rocket launcher (holds 10 defenders), put it on manual. When the missiles get in range of the defender, let one fly. When it hits, let another one fly. Rinse and repeat. ALL missiles smaller than a torpedo will be destroyed in one hit from a defender. If you use them right you can take out a not insignificant chunk of the missile users DPS. they are not good enough for a counter against missiles, first of all in close range combat they are not fast enough, when I have hard wire imps in my head my cruise are also to fast for them and the defenders just zig zag all over the place, but I will agree though that missiles are a fixed damage over time and if you are of some distance away you can warp off before the missiles hit you in some situations. CCp "The paying Customer seems to be enjoying that modual," "yeah lets nerf him"
Jufi Wekior Arachnid Logistics	Posted - 2008.08.01 23:00:00 - [24] Originally by: Altho Regilian P.S. I think I'm just going to start adding to a bunch of these anti-missile posts that defenders aren't broken. Whats broken is how everyone expects to be able to use them. e.g. turn it on and expect it to take out every missile headed your way. Fit a rocket launcher (holds 10 defenders), put it on manual. When the missiles get in range of the defender, let one fly. When it hits, let another one fly. Rinse and repeat. ALL missiles smaller than a torpedo will be destroyed in one hit from a defender. If you use them right you can take out a not insignificant chunk of the missile users DPS. yeah, that sort of micromanagement I just love in the middle of a pvp fight, where I'm also making sure my shields stay up and that I'm in range of the target and my guns have ammo and... well you get the idea . Defenders work OK when you have the launcher slot and high slot available anyway(iow missile using ships are screwed if they want to defend against missiles) when you don't need to spend your time doing more important things then spamming the rocket launcher button, like you know... PvE... Any other situation they're just a waste of database space.
Andreya Direct Intent	Posted - 2008.08.01 23:23:00 - [25] rename it to weapon disruptor, and have the same effects against turrets.. but doble he targets missiles explosion radius, and half its explosion speed (something along those lines) itll give those amarr recons a little more use in pvp. seeing as ECM Webs and damps work on every ship _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.04 11:20:00 - [26] Why can't ccp just fix defender missiles? _______ People like that don't have friends just temporary common interests.
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.08.04 12:15:00 - [27] Originally by: MenanceWhite The thing is that comparing to tracking disruptor for example, clever manuvering combined with the use of it can completely nullify a turret ships DPS. The current module that youre suggesting is nothing else than basicly fitting on another EANM or passive invul field that only works against missiles. Or even worse random chance that some of missiles might deal 0 damage. It's also a "defensive" EW module (non existant) which will protect you from 20 kestrels as 1 kestrel provided that they shoot at you during the same time. That compared to forexample damper/jammer/td in which is only effective versus a single target. Something more viable would be a midslot fitted "launcher disruptor" that reduces max velocity and flight time as trackind disruptor reduces tracking and optimal range. if it is low slot and missiles speed is boosted to instant hit, then yes.. else NO. I declare war on stupidity
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.08.04 12:16:00 - [28] Originally by: Spoon Thumb Why can't ccp just fix defender missiles? they are.. they work at ranges over 30km. they are not designed to work in close range, just like tracking disrupt have the biggest effect close range due to tracking calculation. I declare war on stupidity

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