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Altho Regilian Caldari Zantiu-Braun Security Services Zantiu-Braun Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.01 19:06:00 - [1] I tested two area's on the test server earlier interceptors and missiles. Here is what I propose for the devs to look at and consider. Interceptors They got hit too hard with the patch. Plain and simple. They need more speed than what they have now to survive but not upwards of 16km/s like some are capable of on Tranquility. So instead of trying to finagle with how the stacking penalties are applied to interceptors, I came up with a simple and elegant solution. Add an additional "bonus" to the interceptors for a +5% bonus to AB and MWD boost speed per level of the interceptor skill. This would be applied in the exact same was as acceleration control is applied now and would apply to the base module stats (For a MWD, thats now 500%). What this does is bring the total amount the ship can be boosted by to 750%. From 500% to 625% for Acceleration Control 5 and from 625% to 750% for interceptors 5. Just basing off a crow for ballpark estimates (Max velocity at 720m/s with 3x overdrive II's and 2x Polycarbon I's) the current peak of 625% puts you at 5220 m/s. With the additional boost bringing it up to 750%, we get 6120 m/s which is more in-line to what an interceptor needs to survive without allowing it to go ludicrous speed. Now for the second part: Missiles. Some of you are aware that I've been looking for ways to improve missiles in a sensible way for quite some time now. Either by having their stats tweaked or by the addition of modules (which I will plug AGAIN at the end of this post because I believe they are needed). HOWEVER, post patch I do agree that missiles are a bit overpowered. Not to the extent some would think they are but they are in need of some tweaking. So after looking at the missiles and their various attributes and then comparing them to the class of ship they are designed to go after, here is what I came up with for some base stats. Rockets: As-is Light Missiles: As-is Heavy Missiles: Explosion Velocity: Current: 750 m/s Proposed: 500 m/s Precision Heavy: As-is Seriously, Precision Heavies needed love BAD before the patch but are actually quite good now. Fury Heavy: Explosion Velocity: Current: 750 m/s Proposed: 350 m/s Cruise Missiles: Explosion Velocity: Current: 500 m/s Proposed: 350 m/s Explosion Radius: Current: 300 m Proposed: 400 m Precision Cruise: Explosion Velocity: Current: 1,000 m/s Proposed: 750 m/s Explosion Radius: Current: 200 m Proposed: 300 m Fury Cruise: Explosion Radius: Current: 300 Proposed: 450 Torpedos: As-is As you can see I tried to adjust the missiles to be on par with their ship-class equivalent and really hit the cruise missiles so that they should really only be good against battlecruisers and battleships. I also ran some quick figures while developing the numbers and they seem to scale well to skill level as well. Now for my plug I promised: While the above changes would be fine for missiles and missile users in general, there is still one nagging hole left open. Namely that as missile users, we don't have the option of changing our variables as gun users do. Namely I'm talking about Missile Velocity and Explosion Velocity as compared to optimal and tracking. While I don't want to see missiles turned into guns, I think it would be great to introduce some modules that would allow us to affect these values. Basically a Tracking Computer and Tracking Enhancer but for missiles. On the same note, it would require a counter so basically a tracking disruptor but for missiles and launchers. Namely this would allow missile users more freedom and tough choices to fit for the situations they expect as well as the people who use tracking disruptors to need to decide between turrets or launcher disrupting. While new modules would certainly be nice, I am all for adding the appropriate stats to the tracking/disrupting modules already in game if it saves time/etc.
NerfMyBarge	Posted - 2008.08.01 19:11:00 - [2] Nerfing heavy missiles is not a good idea. On tranquility they do 0 damage to nanoships (anything over 3-4km/s) with perfect skills. After patch, a speedtanked ship (ceptors and vagabonds most certainly...) will take GREATLY reduced missile damage. 500m/s explosion velocity will make a fully maxed out cerberus to not be able to do any damage to nanoships.
Altho Regilian Caldari Zantiu-Braun Security Services Zantiu-Braun Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.01 19:22:00 - [3] Just adding to my above post as why I believe the two bonused attributes should be Missile Velocity and Explosion Velocity for proposed modules. 1. Why not flight time bonus? Well, the velocity adds to distance just as flight time does. However, missiles are already pretty slow so covering the distance a bit faster instead would be the better choice. 2. Why not Explosion Radius? Mainly I see this also as a redundant attribute. We already have target painters in the game which effectively do the same thing against a target ship. However, target painters are good for everyone since gun users can use it too. 3. Why missile velocity? Missiles are slow. We all know this. In a long range fight it will take a cruise missile so long to travel to the target that the target has already fired several volleys against the missile ship. Speeding up the missiles a bit to equal this out just makes sense. 4. Why explosion velocity? Namely for faster ship combat. Interceptors vs. Interceptors comes to mind. 5. Wouldn't this just make heavy missiles overpowered again? No, I actually would want the bonus to missiles to be a bit less than the bonus to guns (T2 Tracking comp gets 12.5% I believe so maybe a 10% bonus for the missile modules). Also, I would be in favor of stacking penalties to prevent "ludicrous" setups from evolving.
Dzajic Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.08.01 19:32:00 - [4] Only thing larger than a frig with anything resembling a speed tank after patch will be Vagabond. Making missiles kill all tacklers in couple of salvoes so you can just be able to damage ONE remaining not so very fast Vagabond is game breaking. Though, this entire patch is game breaking.
DogSlime Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.01 19:38:00 - [5] Edited by: DogSlime on 01/08/2008 19:38:30 This is the whole problem with the nerf in its current form. There are now proposals - maybe entirely justified - that missiles and drones be nerfed because they will become overpowered against small ships that can no longer speed tank properly. Instead of nerfing more and more stuff, maybe it would be better to adjust the speed nerf so that it is less extreme. Especially to the small speed-tankers like interceptors?
Altho Regilian Caldari Zantiu-Braun Security Services Zantiu-Braun Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.01 19:44:00 - [6] Originally by: NerfMyBarge Nerfing heavy missiles is not a good idea. On tranquility they do 0 damage to nanoships (anything over 3-4km/s) with perfect skills. After patch, a speedtanked ship (ceptors and vagabonds most certainly...) will take GREATLY reduced missile damage. 500m/s explosion velocity will make a fully maxed out cerberus to not be able to do any damage to nanoships. You missed that I left the precisions alone. Precision Heavies should be used to take on nano ships instead of standard heavy missiles which should be used against T1 cruisers and Battlecruisers. These are also base stats without any skills adjusting them. The skill to adjust explosion velocity is Target Navigation Prediction which gives a 10% boost to explosion velocity per level. A standard heavy missile fired by a pilot with Target Navigation Prediction V will have an explosion velocity of 750 m/s with 1,500 m/s falloff. Therefore full damage is at 750 m/s, half damage is at 2,250 and no damage is at 3,750. This is with JUST a standard missile. Now lets look at the precision heavy which was left unchanged. The precision fired with Target Navigation Prediciton V will have an explosion velocity of 1,500 m/s. Half damage will be at 3,000 m/s and no damage at 4,500 m/s. Now add 2 flare rigs on your ship and your precisions hit for full damage at just under 2k damage. 1983 m/s to be exact. So that means half damage at 3,483 m/s and no damage at 4,983 m/s. I believe that this is acceptable as it means that even a standard fit vagabond will take some damage. Combine your cerberus with some flare rigs and you'll be hitting him for more. This is a far better improvment than the constant 0.0, 0.1, 0.1 damage we get now. It keeps "Speed Tanking" viable if they person is engaged and then needs to disengage but when they slow down to enter their orbit or to maneuver, you'll be hitting them for near full damage.
Altho Regilian Caldari Zantiu-Braun Security Services Zantiu-Braun Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.01 19:46:00 - [7] Originally by: DogSlime Edited by: DogSlime on 01/08/2008 19:38:30 This is the whole problem with the nerf in its current form. There are now proposals - maybe entirely justified - that missiles and drones be nerfed because they will become overpowered against small ships that can no longer speed tank properly. Instead of nerfing more and more stuff, maybe it would be better to adjust the speed nerf so that it is less extreme. Especially to the small speed-tankers like interceptors? Please re-read the first section of my post. I addressed that as well. Here, I'll put it again below for you to read. Interceptors They got hit too hard with the patch. Plain and simple. They need more speed than what they have now to survive but not upwards of 16km/s like some are capable of on Tranquility. So instead of trying to finagle with how the stacking penalties are applied to interceptors, I came up with a simple and elegant solution. Add an additional "bonus" to the interceptors for a +5% bonus to AB and MWD boost speed per level of the interceptor skill. This would be applied in the exact same was as acceleration control is applied now and would apply to the base module stats (For a MWD, thats now 500%). What this does is bring the total amount the ship can be boosted by to 750%. From 500% to 625% for Acceleration Control 5 and from 625% to 750% for interceptors 5. Just basing off a crow for ballpark estimates (Max velocity at 720m/s with 3x overdrive II's and 2x Polycarbon I's) the current peak of 625% puts you at 5220 m/s. With the additional boost bringing it up to 750%, we get 6120 m/s which is more in-line to what an interceptor needs to survive without allowing it to go ludicrous speed.

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