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fix PVP so it doesnt force non-pvpers to leave

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sukio	Posted - 2008.08.01 21:24:00 - [1] this is the second week that a pvp guild has declared war on our smallish mining corp severly hindering our enjoyment of the game and causing me to rethink why Im paying 15$ for sitting in some station waiting for the war to end so we dont have to worry about someone ganking our unarmed miners and haulers. PVP is crippling eve and thats why its still so small I allways hear from devs about how suprised they are that the core systems are over crowded like they havent got a clue! Im sure someone is going to post if you cant stand the head leave or the other popular one get a combat ship and fight back well i dont want to leave there is no similar game on the market YET and I surly dont want to become a PVPer too first off its not how i want to enjoy my time and second its feeding the very disease i want to get rid of. If CCP doesnt fix this soon there gonna be a ghost town when player friendly eve like games go live in a year or so sure they might limp along with 10-20k hardcore PVP players but if you got shareholders your cheating them out of possibly millions in profits by keeping eve a PVP nitch game. EVE PVP is out of control and is hurting EVE and CCP
MarleWH Infortunatus Eventus Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.08.01 22:40:00 - [2] hahaha ok you got me.
Yadot Minmatar Tarfen Enterprises	Posted - 2008.08.01 22:49:00 - [3] What a dilema, you don't want to play the game but you do want to play the game, /me is confused Eve isn't a PvP niche game, thousands of pilots happily live without combat each and every day in Eve and enjoy the game. Learn to protect your assets or hire someone to return the favour. Most small corps that get hassled go on to be big corps with teeth. Those not willing to adapt and change wither and die. BTW, If it was going to be a ghost town it would have happened 4 years ago and I don't remember CCP ever saying I would be able to mine in peace.
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.01 22:57:00 - [4] GUYS HOW WILL WE FARM OUR ISK NOW FIX UR GAME CCP -----------
RDevz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.01 22:57:00 - [5] If you don't like being at war, feel free to retreat to a NPC corp. You'll find them refreshingly free of nasty people wanting to pop your hulk.
Farrqua Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.01 23:30:00 - [6] Sukio, You are a troll (which I think you are because you cleverly threw in the term "Guild".) or someone that has not been around long at all. Just FYI. This is a PvP non-consensual based game. It has been that way since day one. And players/trolls like yourself has been spouting the " I am quitting and taking my 9000!!! alts and friends with me." And then it grows year after year. What you are asking and proposing would destroy EvE and CCP would lose subs so fast it would make your head spin. We would go from a peak of 40k a night back to where we were 4 or 5 years ago of 5 to 8k. You see the growth stems from the fact this game is not like any other, and it is for a certain player group that enjoys this type of game. If you do plan to leave contract your stuff to me. Kthx.
Antihrist Pripravnik Gallente The 13th Gallentean Armed Response	Posted - 2008.08.02 01:38:00 - [7] Hmm... I totaly agree that PvP should not die and it sure will not die because of only a group of players. PvP is what's EVE all about! But, there is an idea that crossed my mind that could (maybe) solve your problem: Corp A is your kind of corp - mining, hauling, not attacking anyone and that kind of stuff. Corp B is a big bad wolf declaring war on your corp just to fill their killboards with easy pickings. My idea is that corp B can only declare war on corp A if someone from corp A attacked someone from corp B. Now let's see where this leads us. Miners and haulers from corp A are totaly secure in high-sec, thus being able to enjoy their game. In low-sec, members of corp A are not so secure, because even if a war could not be declared someone could attack them at any time, but again, since the war couldn't be declared they would be safe again if they move to high sec. Also, attacking someone from corp A in low sec will result in standings loss since they are not valid war targets thus protecting them from big bad PvPers with positive sec status (or low enough to be able to get into high-sec space). In 0.0 there are no rules (there shouldn't be any rules there) and I doubt that a friendly poor unprotected miner/hauler would even consider going there. This is just my opinion. Enjoy your game
Galan Amarias Amarr The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2008.08.02 08:05:00 - [8] Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik Hmm... I totaly agree that PvP should not die and it sure will not die because of only a group of players. PvP is what's EVE all about! But, there is an idea that crossed my mind that could (maybe) solve your problem: Corp A is your kind of corp - mining, hauling, not attacking anyone and that kind of stuff. Corp B is a big bad wolf declaring war on your corp just to fill their killboards with easy pickings. My idea is that corp B can only declare war on corp A if someone from corp A attacked someone from corp B. Now let's see where this leads us. Miners and haulers from corp A are totaly secure in high-sec, thus being able to enjoy their game. In low-sec, members of corp A are not so secure, because even if a war could not be declared someone could attack them at any time, but again, since the war couldn't be declared they would be safe again if they move to high sec. Also, attacking someone from corp A in low sec will result in standings loss since they are not valid war targets thus protecting them from big bad PvPers with positive sec status (or low enough to be able to get into high-sec space). In 0.0 there are no rules (there shouldn't be any rules there) and I doubt that a friendly poor unprotected miner/hauler would even consider going there. This is just my opinion. Enjoy your game All PVP in EVE is consentual. Your idea is crap. But if it were to go live we should implement the reverse after all. Corp A is a bunch of wealthy industrialists corp B is a group of starving pirates. Because Corp B has not sold anything to corp A at greatly inflated rates Corp A may only sell things at base mineral cost +10% to corp B. Any items marked higher than that are rerated because the two corps have not agreed to a buying war. Now corp B can fight in peace knowing they won't be slaughtered in the PVP market arena. -Galan The answer to empire ganking
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.08.02 08:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik Hmm... I totaly agree that PvP should not die and it sure will not die because of only a group of players. PvP is what's EVE all about! But, there is an idea that crossed my mind that could (maybe) solve your problem: Corp A is your kind of corp - mining, hauling, not attacking anyone and that kind of stuff. Corp B is a big bad wolf declaring war on your corp just to fill their killboards with easy pickings. My idea is that corp B can only declare war on corp A if someone from corp A attacked someone from corp B. Now let's see where this leads us. Miners and haulers from corp A are totaly secure in high-sec, thus being able to enjoy their game. In low-sec, members of corp A are not so secure, because even if a war could not be declared someone could attack them at any time, but again, since the war couldn't be declared they would be safe again if they move to high sec. Also, attacking someone from corp A in low sec will result in standings loss since they are not valid war targets thus protecting them from big bad PvPers with positive sec status (or low enough to be able to get into high-sec space). In 0.0 there are no rules (there shouldn't be any rules there) and I doubt that a friendly poor unprotected miner/hauler would even consider going there. This is just my opinion. Enjoy your game How about this: Corp A decs Corp B, and they fight. But Corp B also has Alt Corp C that provides them with the resources to fight; by your suggestion, Corp C is invulnerable while still providing war support to B. A is massively disadvantaged. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.08.02 10:18:00 - [10] Originally by: sukio PVP is crippling eve and thats why its still so small epic -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.02 13:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Vaal Erit Originally by: sukio PVP is crippling eve and thats why its still so small epic An epic and bad line, but the truth nonetheless. EvE is a niche game because it is difficult and because of it's basis in open PvP. CCP has, over the last several years, opened the gates of EvE to a larger audience, by first making high-security, and since reinforcing greifing laws. Which is why we don't have a 5k playerbase, and which is why fully half the playerbase stay excusively in high-sec. The players who enjoy PvP see these 'carebears' as nothing but fun targets and tears. They don't see that, without them, the game they enjoy so much would lose over half it's income. They also don't see the large percentage of so-called 'pvpers' who would leave the game, players who aren't looking for pvp, only for an easy grief, and who wouldn't find any interest in a carebear-free world where the only opponent has teeth and is willing to use them. I think the real issue is that pvp should progress so that players can become comfortable with it, but also so that they never get it in their head that EvE is anything but a PvP game. No huge barrier between low and high sec. No more allowing players to think that they can be completely free of PVP. Wardecs are a different matter. They are completely biased towards griefers, they rarely are used (in high sec, at least) for anything other than farming carebear tears, and they are unbalanced. But you can't remove them completely, without adding a substitute method for introducing PvP into high-sec. "The greatest offense is no defense."
El Yatta Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.08.02 15:15:00 - [12] Originally by: sukio this is the second week that a pvp guild has declared war on our smallish mining corp severly hindering our enjoyment of the game and causing me to rethink why Im paying 15$ for sitting in some station waiting for the war to end so we dont have to worry about someone ganking our unarmed miners and haulers. PVP is crippling eve and thats why its still so small I allways hear from devs about how suprised they are that the core systems are over crowded like they havent got a clue! Im sure someone is going to post if you cant stand the head leave or the other popular one get a combat ship and fight back well i dont want to leave there is no similar game on the market YET and I surly dont want to become a PVPer too first off its not how i want to enjoy my time and second its feeding the very disease i want to get rid of. If CCP doesnt fix this soon there gonna be a ghost town when player friendly eve like games go live in a year or so sure they might limp along with 10-20k hardcore PVP players but if you got shareholders your cheating them out of possibly millions in profits by keeping eve a PVP nitch game. You consent to PVP when you subscribe. You are a pvper, because you play eve. You're jsut not a very good one. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces
Garregus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.02 15:24:00 - [13] hugs not slugs people
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant	Posted - 2008.08.02 16:39:00 - [14] Troll. 3/10.
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.02 16:41:00 - [15] Edited by: Jarvis Hellstrom on 02/08/2008 16:45:20 Sukio, Taking you at your word that this has happened (and it doesn't surprise me at all as I've been on the receiving end) there are options. First of all - CCP has already mentioned that the wardec system is going to be re-worked as currently it amounts to a 'pay to grief' plan. So to some extent your plea was heard even before you made it. Others have been where you are. Fixing it, however, will take awhile and, game design being what it is, may not 'take' the first time around. Despite what many of the more silly people I saw posted, EVE is NOT "PVP only" nor is PvP 'purely consensual'. That can only be said to be true if playing the game is considered to be 'consent'. However a certain amount of non consensual PvP will always be part of EVE and, in fact, really needs to be. Your best response against these guys is actually to roleplay it. Imagine the CCP Wardec fix as something meandering through the halls of Yulai's legislative board and take action as your character would based on what you're presented with. A bunch of scum have wardecced you. Pleas to the authorities, even if they do not fall on deaf ears, will take time. Possibly lots of it. What to do? You've already said you don't want to fight. That's fine. There are many merc corps happy to do that for you. Consider hiring one of them. If that isn't an option then you must consider ones which don't involve combat. One is to simply move to an area which lacks this kind of griefer. I can tell you of a few where you will be welcome. They may not be as lucrative, but without the hassle you'll probably wind up both happier and with more ISK than with the hassle. If changes go through, you can always go back. The other option is to scatter for awhile into NPC corps and come back later on. Wait out the griefers as they will get bored with no targets. Try some of those and see if one is a good fit. I hope this helps some and you are able to resolve things to your satisfaction. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Darkside 34 Gallente Initrode The Core Collective	Posted - 2008.08.02 16:44:00 - [16] If your having trouble with hisec griefers, hire someone to defend you. being a carebear corp you should be able to afford that. --------------------------------------------------
J Kunjeh Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.02 17:50:00 - [17] Hey Jarvis, great post! What a way to handle this issue with maturity and actually post something helpful to the OP.
Antihrist Pripravnik Gallente The 13th Gallentean Armed Response	Posted - 2008.08.02 19:07:00 - [18] Originally by: J Kunjeh Hey Jarvis, great post! What a way to handle this issue with maturity and actually post something helpful to the OP. Agree :) Originally by: Galan Amarias Your idea is crap. After a carefull consideration of my own idea, I have to agree with you also. Well, it looks like the best solution is: A: B: A:+= B:
RDevz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.03 02:07:00 - [19] What's sad is that this guy has been around since February 2005. You'd have thought that he'd have gotten the message by now. I'm half-tempted to get an alt corp together, and have a standing war dec up on his corporation (Void Engineers) just to see what the reaction is.
MirrorGod Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.08.03 08:20:00 - [20] Poasting in a "Can i have your stuff" thread. Save Small Gang Warfare
Vvae Void Engineers	Posted - 2008.08.03 15:45:00 - [21] Sukio is no longer associated with Void. Sukio was a trial recruit and he refused to fleet up for PvP, although the entirety of his corporation engaged the enemy. Due to numerous inconsistencies with his cover story, he had been stripped of roles for almost a week and was kept in the dark on fleet operations to prevent espionage. As far as enjoyment of the game is concerned he was well protected. If war targets logged on they were announced with ample time to dock up. Sukio, it is time to grow a pair. Man up or GTFO of EVE Online. Thanks for your time. -V
Alt F'Four	Posted - 2008.08.03 15:59:00 - [22] Looking at Sukio's employment record is like looking at a a shopping list of corps who Sukio must have had bad experences in PvP with. This guy/gal needs to stay in the NPC corps permanently. Eve does have an alternative to war decs; NPC corps. Stop complaining when people who have balls enough to push away from the NPC corp umbrella have occasional encounters with war decs. It's part of the game. You seem to want all the benefits that a member-run corp provide, but don't seem to have a clue that "Freedom isn't Free!". Cheers to Void - Great call in booting this peace activist.
Carebear Trader Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.08.03 18:19:00 - [23] Edited by: Carebear Trader on 03/08/2008 18:20:41 Originally by: Alt F'Four Looking at Sukio's employment record is like looking at a a shopping list of corps who Sukio must have had bad experences in PvP with. This guy/gal needs to stay in the NPC corps permanently. Eve does have an alternative to war decs; NPC corps. Stop complaining when people who have balls enough to push away from the NPC corp umbrella have occasional encounters with war decs. It's part of the game. You seem to want all the benefits that a member-run corp provide, but don't seem to have a clue that "Freedom isn't Free!". Cheers to Void - Great call in booting this peace activist. Bullsht, CCP will eventually see the light and serve the majority of its player base by requiring the decced corp to consent to the wardec. Then the majority of the eve subscribers can get back to the business of missioning, mining and production, which the game should have been centered around, while the small minority of the mentally unstable players can just act like d*ks to each other!!
Telender Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.03 18:25:00 - [24] You guys are really pathetic. Really.
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.03 20:53:00 - [25] Originally by: Carebear Trader Bullsht, CCP will eventually see the light and serve the majority of its player base by requiring the decced corp to consent to the wardec. Then the majority of the eve subscribers can get back to the business of missioning, mining and production, which the game should have been centered around, while the small minority of the mentally unstable players can just act like d*ks to each other!! 7/10, your name sort of gives the game away though -----------
Mr Friendly	Posted - 2008.08.03 21:19:00 - [26] why you violence boat??!!!!?
EnslaverOfMinmatar Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.04 03:02:00 - [27] Trlol 0/10

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