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Elhohim
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Posted - 2008.08.04 21:37:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Elhohim on 04/08/2008 21:54:03
Edited by: Elhohim on 04/08/2008 21:38:48
long time lurker 1st time poster casual gamer yada yada... here s for the background.
now I was reading one of the numerous minmatar tread and as usual(always) the arty subject ..;
then I had an epiphany, a mental sound picture of what I d like arty to be
BLam blam blam blam...then the sound of silence - rince repeat -
how about keeping the clip size the same and increase the rof, and by increase I mean like faster than AC.
that would make some kind of huge salvo giving back some alpha strike-like capacity, I don t mean real alpha strike BUT if the 10 round clip is emptied in something like 20 sec ...it s almost an alpha no?
the small clip keeping the dps in check because of reload.
wouln t that give some potential for hit and run to the matari and....just think of the beautifull sound 
that said I plaid guilty of NOT having run any numbers
so? am I the only nutter that would like the idea ?
edited for clarity and to better explain myself and yes maybe I should have posted in the other threads...the length of it scared me
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NightmareX
MAFIA
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.08.04 21:45:00 -
[2]
Wall of text is not a fix for Artys .
And why did you had to make this topic just to say the same thing that have been said x1000000000 in the other 87578675867673490 topics about the same thing here?
I would say, keep the same thing about Artys in one topic about Artys.
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Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.04 21:46:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Elhohim
that would make some kind of huge salvo giving back some alpha strike-like capacity, the small clip keeping the dps in check because of reload giving some potentail for hit and run to the matari and....just think of the beautifull sound
Actually, increasing the ROF wouldn't change the alpha strike at all.
I don't fly minmatar so I can only theorycraft on good solutions, but I think two things that would significantly help out artillery:
1. Double clip size
2. Cut ROF by half, double damage (Making them king of the alpha strike again)
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.04 23:07:00 -
[4]
decrease rof, increase optimal and tracking slightly
same clip size, increase damage slightly
my idea of ideal fix... but i love arty so i can't claim unbiased in the balancing department
Originally by: Cecil Montague
They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.08.05 08:00:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 05/08/2008 08:03:51
I suggested it sime time ago, in one of one million threads on artillery. A burst weapon.
Idea is that artillery (if we keep its current form) should dominate in first 20-30 seconds of engagement, and then get below other turrets considerably. In theory, burst mechanic is the best variant to achieve this.
Problem is, if such burst is introduced, artillery should have their reload times increased, because fixed 10 seconds is not enough to depress the damage hurricane unleashed by the bursts, intervals should be longer, MUCH longer. Actually it should be so much longer I think noone will agree for to that :)
Lets check some numbers:
Current stats (approximate) have artillery firing for 100 seconds (10 shots of bulkiest ammo, 10 seconds ROF), and then reloading for 10 seconds. Total cycle time 110 seconds.
Suppose we want to keep infinite DPS the same, increase first 30 seconds DPS 50%, and give artillery a sharp drop in DPS after 30 sec.
Changes:
- Decrease shot duration to ~3 seconds instead of ~10 (Burst DPS -> 3.33 current arty burst DPS)
- DECREASE damage modifier 2.22 times (Burst DPS -> 1.5 current arty burst DPS)
Now we need to balance this burst with reload time. Making a proportion:
(100+10)/1 (current arty burst time + reload over current damage)
should be equal
(30+x)/1.5 (new arty burst time + reload over new damage)
Solving this, new reload time should be = 135 seconds (!) Do we all want OVER TWO MINUTES of artillery reload?
Personally, I think that would be fun - real "driveby" weapon :) But it will bring in too many issues. What if you disconnect during this time - you have to start over. You can exploit this by docking (or going to POS) reloading in fitting screen instantly, and getting back in action. You cant jump or cloak during this time - if you do, you have to start over. And so on, and so forth. Plus, "reload lag" in fleets will get even more horrible, thought you are not likely to stay in grid for reload.
So you see, if we want to boost artillery alpha even as high as twice (!), its easier to do just this - increase shot duration, and increase damage modifier to achieve same-ish infinite DPS. It will not achieve the goal though :)
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Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
Rhanna Khurin
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.08.05 08:38:00 -
[6]
I'd just be happy if the clip size was increased tbh.
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Kil'Roy
Minmatar
The Rat Patrol
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Posted - 2008.08.05 08:56:00 -
[7]
I think they should come out with 1600mm Arty with the stats you suggest.
Why do both Energy and Hybrid have 3 types a long range Turret, and Projectiles only have 2?
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Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.08.05 08:58:00 -
[8]
"slight increase" to clip size, tracking, DPS and optimal just moves artilleries towards railguns. This is boring.
Artilleries used to be horrifying first-strikers. We cannot have that completely back, this capability was removed for a good reason through HP buffs, but we may still have a weapon specializing in this to some degree. Otherwise its just rails vs lasers.
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Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.08.05 11:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kil'Roy
I think they should come out with 1600mm Arty with the stats you suggest.
Why do both Energy and Hybrid have 3 types a long range Turret, and Projectiles only have 2?
I guess for the same reason Energy turrets have only 2 shortrange (pulse) tiers. Just kinda variety.
There's hardly a need for third tier of artillery, when we already have 2 tiers that badly need some tweaking to have a flavor.
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Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
Nightsheir
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Posted - 2008.08.05 11:26:00 -
[10]
No , i really like the idea of faster shooting arty's . It would be very much like alpha strike and yet still not be . 10 Sec reload time, doing it often this time would hurt your overall dps .
But the problem is , this isnt a game where you should just apply your personal desires right away. If you want something to be altered , you need to offer a solution thats better than what the game has at the moment.
-Faster shooting will hurt missioners because of greater ammo consumption. And once you dont have good transversal velocity on target, you will miss the whole clip , which will lead to more ammo problems.
-Its not all about alpha damage or damage alone at all . Any projectile weapon can shoot with 0 cap usage, this means, once you are neuted, webbed, scrammed , overwhelmed, unlike any other race , with that fast 20 bullet shooting monster, you will still retain your ability to instapop anything that stops on your face. Imagine the whinings it will cause.
-Old style minmatar alpha damage superiority has been removed because , nobody rightfuly likes to be instapopped in a big rpg multiplayer game like this. And it promotes the solo playstyle which isnt wanted either.
There is more, but you get the idea . Think more about your suggestions and its side effects for all players, not just the lowsec roaming pvp department and the winning side.
And yes, boost amarr . Tired of playing with laser toyguns. |
Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2008.08.05 15:40:00 -
[11]
Remove clip size, increase ammunition round M3 to take up more cargo space, remove reloading time and have chain linking.
Increase increase falloff by a massive amount and increase the rate of fire by a few %
Thats how I would like to see arties.
Top it all off, add falloff bonuses equivalent to the optimal bonus to tracking computers, tracking enhancers, minmatar t1 and t2 ammunition and viola your good to go.
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Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.08.05 19:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Elhohim
Edited by: Elhohim on 04/08/2008 21:54:03
Edited by: Elhohim on 04/08/2008 21:38:48
long time lurker 1st time poster casual gamer yada yada... here s for the background.
now I was reading one of the numerous minmatar tread and as usual(always) the arty subject ..;
then I had an epiphany, a mental sound picture of what I d like arty to be
BLam blam blam blam...then the sound of silence - rince repeat -
how about keeping the clip size the same and increase the rof, and by increase I mean like faster than AC.
that would make some kind of huge salvo giving back some alpha strike-like capacity, I don t mean real alpha strike BUT if the 10 round clip is emptied in something like 20 sec ...it s almost an alpha no?
the small clip keeping the dps in check because of reload.
wouln t that give some potential for hit and run to the matari and....just think of the beautifull sound
that said I plaid guilty of NOT having run any numbers
so? am I the only nutter that would like the idea ?
edited for clarity and to better explain myself and yes maybe I should have posted in the other threads...the length of it scared me
go back to lurking imo.
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Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.08.06 09:11:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ekrid
go back to lurking imo.
Go back under your bridge imo. Its a nice topic actually. Although not the first, nor 101st one.
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Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.08.06 09:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nightsheir
No , i really like the idea of faster shooting arty's . It would be very much like alpha strike and yet still not be . 10 Sec reload time, doing it often this time would hurt your overall dps .
Another set of numbers for you:
We keep curerent artillery infinite-time DPS, 10 seconds reload time, but compact the burst into 30-40 seconds (for Tremor, 10 charges), a sniper Tempest will have 900-1200 DPS within that time. It will still unleash 32000 damage or so at 150 km in 30-40 seconds.
Tachyon Abaddon will need twice that time to reach this damage potential. This huge advantage of Tempest can be reduced by bringing the damage mod of artillery lower, as needed.
TURN ARTILLERY INTO BURST WEAPON! LETS START WHINIG! :)
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Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
Alz Shado
Ever Flow
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.08.06 16:45:00 -
[15]
The problem with Burst damage with a small clip size is module lag. While the initial "alpha" would be great, if there's even a 10 second delay in module activation then you've effectively cut the DPS in half.
"Half ROF + Double DMG + Double Clip Size" makes the most sense and is the most fair for the current EvE environment.
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\\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
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